2016 NBA Playoffs

[Steezo]

well we all have opinions that is true, but for you to sit here and type that carmelo outplayed george in the head to head matchup is a bit ridiculous especially after the numbers I posted you. Paul george shut him down basically, made him an even more inefficient chucker than he is. Im sorry I see no real proof that carmelo out played george. And his bum shoulder? Please don't give me that excuse carmelo kept chucking shots at a record pace, his shoulder was fine. if not he should have sat his fat azz down...

Next I don't believe the knicks had a better team, I thought that year was fools gold and I my post back then show it. My point was, many knicks fans believed that and they believe having carmelo would be the difference in the playoffs, that is why that bum was brought here.. but it has been proven otherwise, since the very day that clown put on a knicks uniform.

Anthony only shot that percentage against PG-13 through the first three games. And I'm not sure how PG-13 had a higher shooting % that series (even for an advanced stat) when Melo outshot him across the board. Outshooting him badly while at the same time badly outscoring him, outrebounded George, and while PG-13 outassisted Carmelo he had almost 2x the turnovers. He didn't really shut Anthony down, so this is why I don't see how Melo was outplayed.

I really don't like Anthony all that much either since he held Denver hostage and unnecessarily making us gut our roster for him when he could've just came in FA. His level of play also lowered once he got that fat check. I'm no fan of Melo either I just don't think a role-player (a good player but still a role-player) is as good as a future HOFr.

I call him a role-player because I don't see him making the HOF. Ppl may say it's too early to tell, but there's not a surefire HOFr that I can think of that we couldn't already tell was headed on his way there by age 26

 

[Kiyaman]

Yeah, not to mention that Woodson was thoroughly outcoached by Vogel. Woodson kept endorsing that antiquated ISO-ball and should've played man-to-man D#. With Hibbert & West in the paint, we had to shoot our way to victory, and that was not our strength. Woodson could've done a better job running different halfcourt-offensive sets, especially during crunchtime. In 2013 we were not very good in close games, and the games against Indiana we won were largely due to time running out. Woodson also should've got on the refs more, as at least in game 6 we endured subpar officiating. Reminds me of a 76ers-Bulls series in the early 90s, can't remember which year.

I'm not saying Anthony was blameless, but from what I saw he and George were far from the reasons Indiana beat us that year. Put Melo on that Pacers squad and you have a serious title contender. Meanwhile replace Paul George on the Knicks in '13 and we get worse

Slow-down .. The 2015-16 Knicks would have made the playoffs if we had Paul George instead of Melo!
I would rather Paul George tutor KP n Grant into a lineup a 100 times more than ISO-Melo
Paul George has always been a 4th quarter star-player .. Melo has always been a first-half star player!
Dont get Melo NBA career mixed-up, Melo NBA career had 50 win season with teammates "Allen Iverson, Last-Shot Billups, and Jason Kidd .. all three teammates were 4th quarter super-stars in the NBA that carried Melo to 50 win seasons" !!!

We beat the Pacers in the regular season having strong veteran coach/player leadership from Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Camby, Tyson, Brewer, and Jason Kidd .. At the end of the regular season Melo won the scoring title making several speeches never giving his teammates any credit, and JRsmith won the 6th man award never giving any of his teammates credt which was expected from him. So when the playoff arrive Melo acted as if he was the MAN taking over Jason Kidd leadership role by making Woodson a puppet to Melo's decision-making coaching for 40 minute each playoff game .. we all seen Rasheed, Kurt, Camby, K-Mart, Tyson, and Kidd bail-out from participating as a bench-coach or player when Melo n JRsmith started calling all the shots on every offensive possession in the postseason games.

 

[tiger0330]

That is not the first time Melo teammates quit on Melo in the postseason .. Melo has a career of teammates quitting in playoffs ...Plus there was no way the 2012-13 Pacers role-player roster could have beat the Knicks Old-Timers (Kidd/K-Mart/Camby/Tyson) in a 7 game series.

YO! Felton had 21 pts 11 rb 3 ast 1 stl and 4 TO in 42 minute to beat OKC tonite.
WO! Durant shot 7-33 FG and 2-11 3s plus Westbrook shot 8-22 and 1-6 3s to hand the poor Mavs a postseason WIN .. OKC was pose to sweep the Mavs in a series .. the same as
GS pose to sweep Rockets
Cavs pose to sweep Detroit
Raptors pose to sweep Pacers
The Postseason games are getting PHONEY each season

The Thunder have had more meltdowns late in games than any team in the NBA. Even without Barea and Chandler I expected the Mavs to win one game because of the Thunder tendency to have meltdowns esp. when you have to face good teams in the playoffs. They have a good team and 2 stars in Westbrook and KD but they ain't winning anything.

 

[Tkf]

Anthony only shot that percentage against PG-13 through the first three games. And I'm not sure how PG-13 had a higher shooting % that series (even for an advanced stat) when Melo outshot him across the board. Outshooting him badly while at the same time badly outscoring him, outrebounded George, and while PG-13 outassisted Carmelo he had almost 2x the turnovers. He didn't really shut Anthony down, so this is why I don't see how Melo was outplayed.

I really don't like Anthony all that much either since he held Denver hostage and unnecessarily making us gut our roster for him when he could've just came in FA. His level of play also lowered once he got that fat check. I'm no fan of Melo either I just don't think a role-player (a good player but still a role-player) is as good as a future HOFr.

I call him a role-player because I don't see him making the HOF. Ppl may say it's too early to tell, but there's not a surefire HOFr that I can think of that we couldn't already tell was headed on his way there by age 26

when you shoot 34% vs the guy guarding you in a series in which you lose two of the first three games. that is a problem. only the first 3 games.. well the knicks only fell down 2-1 and only never recovered.

go look at key games 3 and 4, games in which carmelo stunk.. if I am not mistake in that game 4 PG had a 18/14/7 game while carmelo was chucking 9-23.. you are looking at carmelo's volume, he shot a ton, missed a ton and got points through volume while his team suffered.. it was a terrible performance... for fans they go, oh carmelo scored 32 to George 18.. but what they didn't see is carmelo missed like 17 shots, didn't play a lick of defense, or create for anyone else.. this is what PG did, the complete game.. and when it counted, PG played like the best player on the floor, which he was..

sports is about moments, great players usually produce great moments and they also rise during the great moments, they also rise when their teams need them. Carmelo during the first 3 games was a dud, pretty much a chucker the whole series.. an empty stat getter...

If you are truly looking at it from a basketball perspective, he was clearly outplayed...

 

[Broadway]

That is not the first time Melo teammates quit on Melo in the postseason .. Melo has a career of teammates quitting in playoffs ...Plus there was no way the 2012-13 Pacers role-player roster could have beat the Knicks Old-Timers (Kidd/K-Mart/Camby/Tyson) in a 7 game series.

YO! Felton had 21 pts 11 rb 3 ast 1 stl and 4 TO in 42 minute to beat OKC tonite.
WO! Durant shot 7-33 FG and 2-11 3s plus Westbrook shot 8-22 and 1-6 3s to hand the poor Mavs a postseason WIN .. OKC was pose to sweep the Mavs in a series .. the same as
GS pose to sweep Rockets
Cavs pose to sweep Detroit
Raptors pose to sweep Pacers
The Postseason games are getting PHONEY each season

lol @ teammates quitting on Melo especially that Post-Season when it was Felton and Shumpert as the reason we advanced past the mighty Celtics without Rondo. Don't get me wrong I don't think players run through brick walls under his poor leadership but they play the field much the same as their competitive counterparts. I mean Lance Stephenson was just as cooky as J.R. Smith in many respects but Paul George didn't allow that to derail his team totally. Matter of fact for all the attempted praise upon Hibbert and the likes both he and Lance have moved on yet Paul is the one who remains and the main reason the Pacers haven't fallen apart. The Lakers/Clippers/Grizzlies didn't/aren't flourishing the last time I checked.

 

[Tkf]

Slow-down .. The 2015-16 Knicks would have made the playoffs if we had Paul George instead of Melo!
I would rather Paul George tutor KP n Grant into a lineup a 100 times more than ISO-Melo
Paul George has always been a 4th quarter star-player .. Melo has always been a first-half star player!
Dont get Melo NBA career mixed-up, Melo NBA career had 50 win season with teammates "Allen Iverson, Last-Shot Billups, and Jason Kidd .. all three teammates were 4th quarter super-stars in the NBA that carried Melo to 50 win seasons" !!!

We beat the Pacers in the regular season having strong veteran coach/player leadership from Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Camby, Tyson, Brewer, and Jason Kidd .. At the end of the regular season Melo won the scoring title making several speeches never giving his teammates any credit, and JRsmith won the 6th man award never giving any of his teammates credt which was expected from him. So when the playoff arrive Melo acted as if he was the MAN taking over Jason Kidd leadership role by making Woodson a puppet to Melo's decision-making coaching for 40 minute each playoff game .. we all seen Rasheed, Kurt, Camby, K-Mart, Tyson, and Kidd bail-out from participating as a bench-coach or player when Melo n JRsmith started calling all the shots on every offensive possession in the postseason games.

The excuses for carmelo can stack up taller than MT Everest.. LOL... truth is, he has never been a GREAT player.. he came out in a draft with some great players and has forever been linked with Wade and lebron. Truth is, he shouldn't be mentioned in the same day as those guys, forget the same sentence...

serious, when you say, wade, lebron, Kobe, Iverson, etc.. there should be a law where you have to wait a day to say carmelo's name..

Damn, I broke my own law... hahaha

 

[Steezo]

Slow-down .. The 2015-16 Knicks would have made the playoffs if we had Paul George instead of Melo!
I would rather Paul George tutor KP n Grant into a lineup a 100 times more than ISO-Melo
Paul George has always been a 4th quarter star-player .. Melo has always been a first-half star player!
Dont get Melo NBA career mixed-up, Melo NBA career had 50 win season with teammates "Allen Iverson, Last-Shot Billups, and Jason Kidd .. all three teammates were 4th quarter super-stars in the NBA that carried Melo to 50 win seasons" !!!

We beat the Pacers in the regular season having strong veteran coach/player leadership from Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Camby, Tyson, Brewer, and Jason Kidd .. At the end of the regular season Melo won the scoring title making several speeches never giving his teammates any credit, and JRsmith won the 6th man award never giving any of his teammates credt which was expected from him. So when the playoff arrive Melo acted as if he was the MAN taking over Jason Kidd leadership role by making Woodson a puppet to Melo's decision-making coaching for 40 minute each playoff game .. we all seen Rasheed, Kurt, Camby, K-Mart, Tyson, and Kidd bail-out from participating as a bench-coach or player when Melo n JRsmith started calling all the shots on every offensive possession in the postseason games.

This year, maybe. PG-13 > Melo this year, I have no qualms admitting that. And we'll just agree to disagree that Billups was the best player in '09

 

[Tkf]

lol @ teammates quitting on Melo especially that Post-Season when it was Felton and Shumpert as the reason we advanced past the mighty Celtics without Rondo. Don't get me wrong I don't think players run through brick walls under his poor leadership but they play the field much the same as their competitive counterparts. I mean Lance Stephenson was just as cooky as J.R. Smith in many respects but Paul George didn't allow that to derail his team totally. Matter of fact for all the attempted praise upon Hibbert and the likes both he and Lance have moved on yet Paul is the one who remains and the main reason the Pacers haven't fallen apart. The Lakers/Clippers/Grizzlies didn't/aren't flourishing the last time I checked.

so lets get this straight.

1) carmelo has never had a good team
2) he had a bum shoulder in playoff series he lost
3) he had bad coaches
4) jeremy lin stole his shine
5) His teamates quit on him... rofl!!!!!! that is a new one
6)The west was too tough
7) he forgot to let jason kid lead
8)kevin Garnett hurt his feelings
9) honey nut cheerios
10) tyson chandler could not outplay Hibbert
11) carmelo had no help
12) he only was held to 34% for 3 of the most important games of the series, but other than that he was GREAT!! especially in game 7 vs the pacers.. oh wait... there was no game 7..
13) the sun is hot
14) His headband got in the way
15) it is amare's fault
16) Jeremy lin again
17) Dantoni
18) woodson
19) George Karl
20) felton
21) flu chandler
22) pluto was out of alignment
23 -2300000000) stay tuned

All of these excuses, yet you never hear how this guy has shot 41% over his career in the playoffs, doesn't defend, pass or elevate his team? where was the carmelo Great moment where he got any team over the hump? Lebron did it, wade, dirk, kobe, etc.. yet people insist on defending this clown as if there is some greatness we all just don't see.... smh

 

[Kiyaman]

Anthony only shot that percentage against PG-13 through the first three games. And I'm not sure how PG-13 had a higher shooting % that series (even for an advanced stat) when Melo outshot him across the board. Outshooting him badly while at the same time badly outscoring him, outrebounded George, and while PG-13 outassisted Carmelo he had almost 2x the turnovers. He didn't really shut Anthony down, so this is why I don't see how Melo was outplayed.

I really don't like Anthony all that much either since he held Denver hostage and unnecessarily making us gut our roster for him when he could've just came in FA. His level of play also lowered once he got that fat check. I'm no fan of Melo either I just don't think a role-player (a good player but still a role-player) is as good as a future HOFr.

I call him a role-player because I don't see him making the HOF. Ppl may say it's too early to tell, but there's not a surefire HOFr that I can think of that we couldn't already tell was headed on his way there by age 26

Paul George IS NOT a Role-Player! maybe back in the 2011-12 season.
The 2015-16 Pacers team had a 45 win season leaning on the back of Paul George 4th quarter star-performance.
Melo hasnt showed up in the 4th quarter since Jason Kidd drawing the double-team to hit a wide open Melo.
Paul George will get elected to the HOF years before Melo.

What know one mention about the 2012-13 Knicks vs Pacers series was puppet Woodson took our old experience rookie PG Prigioni out of the STARTER lineup with Felton when the two were playing well B.Ball getting 2 wins out of 3 games. It were Kidd idea to put the two in the starter lineup, and Melo idea to take Prigioni out the starter lineup in the postseason games. WHY?
Woodson n Prigioni are both on the LA Clippers today.
Why we had a 17 win season? Our best PG Prigioni came off the bench each game to recieve 17 minute per game, when 2nd season PG Larkins were given the starter job receiving 23 minute per game, and PG Calderon receive 30 minute per game.

 

[Steezo]

when you shoot 34% vs the guy guarding you in a series in which you lose two of the first three games. that is a problem. only the first 3 games.. well the knicks only fell down 2-1 and only never recovered.

go look at key games 3 and 4, games in which carmelo stunk.. if I am not mistake in that game 4 PG had a 18/14/7 game while carmelo was chucking 9-23.. you are looking at carmelo's volume, he shot a ton, missed a ton and got points through volume while his team suffered.. it was a terrible performance... for fans they go, oh carmelo scored 32 to George 18.. but what they didn't see is carmelo missed like 17 shots, didn't play a lick of defense, or create for anyone else.. this is what PG did, the complete game.. and when it counted, PG played like the best player on the floor, which he was..

sports is about moments, great players usually produce great moments and they also rise during the great moments, they also rise when their teams need them. Carmelo during the first 3 games was a dud, pretty much a chucker the whole series.. an empty stat getter...

If you are truly looking at it from a basketball perspective, he was clearly outplayed...

That game four you mentioned Melo still outshot PG-13, and had almost twice as few TOs. What I'm pretty much getting from you is to "the stats don't matter, watch the games"

 

[Steezo]

Paul George IS NOT a Role-Player! maybe back in the 2011-12 season.
The 2015-16 Pacers team had a 45 win season leaning on the back of Paul George 4th quarter star-performance.
Melo hasnt showed up in the 4th quarter since Jason Kidd drawing the double-team to hit a wide open Melo.
Paul George will get elected to the HOF years before Melo.

What know one mention about the 2012-13 Knicks vs Pacers series was puppet Woodson took our old experience rookie PG Prigioni out of the STARTER lineup with Felton when the two were playing well B.Ball getting 2 wins out of 3 games. It were Kidd idea to put the two in the starter lineup, and Melo idea to take Prigioni out the starter lineup in the postseason games. WHY?
Woodson n Prigioni are both on the LA Clippers today.
Why we had a 17 win season? Our best PG Prigioni came off the bench each game to recieve 17 minute per game, when 2nd season PG Larkins were given the starter job receiving 23 minute per game, and PG Calderon receive 30 minute per game.

OK, that's all I wanted to hear

 

[Tkf]

That game four you mentioned Melo still outshot PG-13, and had almost twice as few TOs. What I'm pretty much getting from you is to "the stats don't matter, watch the games"

HERE WE go again with this "outshot" felton outshot PG, so did JR smith.. I am talking about being "out tplayed"

PG game has evolved in every aspect, right now he is even a better scorer than he was back then, but back then he still was able to play a complete game.... carmelo shot 9-23 with 9 boards and one dime.. PG shot 6-19 with 14 boards 7 dimes and 2 steals along with 2 blocks.. and his team won.. GEORGE OUTPLAYED CARMELO

carmelo wasn't even the best knick that game.. chandler had a good game shooting 4-9 grabbing 10 boards scoring 12 points oh and 3 blocks, but I leave it for knicks fans to tell it, chandler was the reason the knicks lost the series.

maybe if carmelo had the type of game PG had, heck or even matched the efficiency of tyson chandler, the knicks win that game... it seems as if carmelo lets his teamates down, more than you guys claim they let him down.

STATS for me have their place, but they usually confirm what I see with my eyes... I trust my eyes most of the time... unless the stats are just so clear cut... for instance shooting 50% from the field or more in a series that you win, will basically make arguing the stats a tough thing to do...

 

[Steezo]

I just thought it was disingenuous of you to mention Melo's 9-23 but fail to mention PG-13's 6-19, which is why I brought up Melo outshooting. And I don't see how the stats say that Melo was outplayed over the entire series. I'll give George he had more steals, and while he outassisted Melo the series he had almost twice the amount of turnovers, so the AST discrepancy evens out a little more in that regard. I didn't see George's defense being enough to offset Melo's offense, considering the numbers Melo put up on George, being Melo was George's primary cover. While George didn't produce offensively like Melo did.

I'd love to know what you're seeing from the series stats that say PG-13 outplayed Melo.

 

[Kiyaman]

There is something we all must remember when it comes to Melo vs the postseason games.
Last-Shot Chauncey Billups first season with Denver Nuggets teammate, PG Billups only let Melo take 17 shots per game which took the Denver Nuggets to the WCF.
The next season the Denver Nuggets had the same players as the year before, and got knock out of the First Round Playoff by a poor-poor Utah Jazz team. WHY? Because Melo showed how much power he has with the Nuggets organization by taking 23 shots per game.
After getting knocked-out of the playoff with the same teammates that took Melo to WCF
Thas why Melo wanted OUT of Denver!!!

 

[Steezo]

There is something we all must remember when it comes to Melo vs the postseason games.
Last-Shot Chauncey Billups first season with Denver Nuggets teammate, PG Billups only let Melo take 17 shots per game which took the Denver Nuggets to the WCF.
The next season the Denver Nuggets had the same players as the year before, and got knock out of the First Round Playoff by a poor-poor Utah Jazz team. WHY? Because Melo showed how much power he has with the Nuggets organization by taking 23 shots per game.
After getting knocked-out of the playoff with the same teammates that took Melo to WCF
Thas why Melo wanted OUT of Denver!!!

So when Denver won, it was hardly because of Melo, yet when they lost it was mostly because of Melo- cliffnotes

 

[Tkf]

I just thought it was disingenuous of you to mention Melo's 9-23 but fail to mention PG-13's 6-19, which is why I brought up Melo outshooting. And I don't see how the stats say that Melo was outplayed over the entire series. I'll give George he had more steals, and while he outassisted Melo the series he had almost twice the amount of turnovers, so the AST discrepancy evens out a little more in that regard. I didn't see George's defense being enough to offset Melo's offense, considering the numbers Melo put up on George, being Melo was George's primary cover. While George didn't produce offensively like Melo did.

I'd love to know what you're seeing from the series stats that say PG-13 outplayed Melo.

actually it is not disingenuous at all, I mentioned carmelo's 9-23 because of his volume! paul george didn't shoot a good percentage but he also doesn't jack up a lot of shots, as a player he can impact the game in many ways. that was my point.... as far as paul george turnovers, I can live with those as he often handles the ball in some cases more than the PG....

you keep talking about the numbers carmelo put up.. dude they were not good... you do realize if paul george decided to take as many shots as carmelo he would have clearly put up guady numbers indicative of volume shooters. his EFG was almost exactly the same as carmelo's, he just didn't jack up as many shots, his usage rate was also a lot lower... George just impacted the game in other areas.. to say that george didn't produce offensively like carmelo did is false.. He did, he just did so without taking as many shots... why is that hard to understand...

take a look at game two, when carmelo two just 16 shots... He sucked.. and he did nothing else... PG meanwhile taking 17 shots also had 8 board, 8 dimes and 5 steals.. oh and his team won... you are looking at a couple of games in which carmelo jacked up a bunch of shots to score 32 and 39 points and you go.. see, see, he outshot him... I don't look at basketball that way... I don't look at sports that way. That is loserball...

if anything you are making a good argument for how empty carmelo stats are when it comes to scoring...

I'd love to know what you're seeing from the series stats that say PG-13 outplayed Melo

Again, if you watched the series without knick shades on, this would be easy... tell me where did carmelo "stats" impact this series at all. I have showed you where PG's did...

 

[Tkf]

So when Denver won, it was hardly because of Melo, yet when they lost it was mostly because of Melo- cliffnotes

when did denver ever win? they only made it out of the first round once.. and that was when billups came.....so yea, it makes sense to think that billups who was a champion already had more to do with them advancing...

you know what I find odd? when a team trades a so called Great player, rarely if ever is that team better than the team they trade that player to... for example.

lebron to the heat, the cavs were never at any time better than the heat with lebron there...

lebron to the cavs.. the heat were never better at any time than the cavs with lebron.

chris paul to the clippers? hornets have not been better than the clipps with paul there..

wolves trading garnett to celtics.. wolves were never better than celts who went to two finals winning one..

I can't think of many more, because true stars? true stars, are never really traded... except the occasional posers.. and I will throw deron williams in there along with carmelo..

But when Denver traded carmelo to the knicks, not only have they been better than the knicks since the trade(which isn't saying much) but they went on to set a franchise record for wins, pretty much led by the key players in the horrible carmelo trade.. Gallo, and chandler..

As I said, carmelo has been the most empty stat player in the history of sports.. not basketball.. Sports!!

 

[Broadway]

This year, maybe. PG-13 > Melo this year, I have no qualms admitting that. And we'll just agree to disagree that Billups was the best player in '09

Finished way ahead of Melo in MVP voting that yr(Melo didn't even make the list), a category several posts back you championed when you saw fit to do so. So we'll throw this out now

 

[Broadway]

So when Denver won, it was hardly because of Melo, yet when they lost it was mostly because of Melo- cliffnotes

Yep because prior to and after he hasn't had that success without Billups. What's so hard to figure out here?

 

[Steezo]

I saw you mentioned advanced stats EFG and usg. Advanced stats don't hold any weight with me, so if that's crucial evidence in your favor that I'm dismissing, so be it. And all I'm pretty hearing from you is that PG-13's stats matter and Melo's don't, and also creating scenarios for PG to say he outplayed Melo, "if he shot x amount, etc". And also cherry-picking instances instead of looking at the series as a whole.

I ask you for series-stats that say PG-13 > Melo, and you say I was watching the series through homer-glasses (as if you truly know me like that, and also as though you're some unbiased objective entity), refuse to provide any series-stats, flip my question around and deflect. Had no interest in playing tennis, was wanting an actual discussion. But it seems to me you're arguing just to argue and have the last word. Well you got your wish, this is my last reply to you.