skisloper1
Benchwarmer
RJ has played for 3 years without a true general PG leading the team or in any position for that matter. The kid is 21 and basically plays with 3 different teams each season.
Game Thread: New York Knicks vs Miami Heat - 2/25/22
- Thread starter htr10
- Start date
RJ has played for 3 years without a true general PG leading the team or in any position for that matter. The kid is 21 and basically plays with 3 different teams each season.
Dark Raider
Starter
Ok, Then what do you think RJ is worth on the open market? What player that we can get to 'Move the Needle of this team' in an even swap for RJ? What player can we get in an swap that would be 'Transformative for this team'? Remember we drafted RJ in 'Move the Needle' and 'Transformative' player territory(#1, #2, #3 and #4). I added #4 because we had HOPE with KP.
Sir, now you tell everyone including me what you see as RJ value. Because 'Guess What' if you had been paying attention the other night the Heat showed you what he was worth!! Not in words but in actions. Did you know that actions speak louder than words?
"RJ is Teflon to the FO ruining players".... They gave that sorry so & so everything that a player needs to success. I always say "GAVE" never 'Earned'. Never benching his sorry butt, Never limiting his minutes, Never calling him out about that sorry defense he plays that would have bench any other player. I never use the word 'Teflon' but it fits.
My so called silliness comes from 'What I see' and 'What other teams do'. When is the last time you measure the Knicks? When is the last time you measure RJ, truthfully(not with rose colored glasses)?
Remember so one said once or twice "I didn't draft RJ"!! Let me add this "I didn't make RJ the player that he is today"!!
See I'm a different type of fan than you are... I'm from a different era and have very different expectations than you and others. What I see in you is that you will instead of acknowledging the real problems with the team you shift them to Dolan(in overall cases, correct). But there is still the team and it makeup that is what I see. Nobody(including You) talk about Dolan last year, WHY?? Because you and other had no problem with just making the playoff. Not one word about a championship.... That is what you play the season for, HUH, HUH, HUH!! Yeah. So when it turn bad blame Dolan. As I said before I agree but he isn't the only problem.
There are questions I asked you please answer then all so I can rid myself of my silliness.
BTW, quoting you "I would resign RJ for sure". Is this for RJ good or the Team?? Remember it the overall team that is paramount.... Also don't forget why you play the season. Rethink(resign) it for the good of the team. Understanding you don't anything to do with it. Just as a fan.
Dark Raider
Starter
Correct!!
We sit here see what other team are doing with their actions. Then you have those that only see 46 pt and are jumping up and down and making excuses and blaming everybody else for the lost. If they can't see that the Heat said to the Knicks.... Randle might can beat us and we are going to double him. But the rest of you team can't beat us. It very simple!! They aren't concern with team they are concern with stat's for a player. When you been fooled you will do anything to turn it around and say 'No I was made a fool of'.
F.O. made this team and now we the fans that see all of the problems have to endure the pain.
skisloper1
Benchwarmer
how about answering who has been the PG guard for the past 3 years for Knicks ?
who has been the team leader for the past 3 years.
This is not RJ's role so tell me who's role it. Players seem to thrive when they have a leader or leaders on the court.
Forget the argument we should her much more with a 3 pick......Thats who we got.....yes Morant would have been great to have.
what did you want the starting line-up to be with the current roster we have TODAY ?
and if a players is given everything and its not earned thats a detriment to that player.........your right RJ should have said sorry coach I know im making 4 million but I won't play because ??????
Dark Raider
Starter
Let me make this post short. First of all, Answer my questions, PERIOD.
Secondly, go back and look at you post that I replied too. Do you see anything about asking those question you put in the above post? Answer - None!!
Thirdly, If you want to have a conversation(that you started)... Please stop with the B.S.(asking question when you should be answering question). Do that with someone else, Ok!!
Now go back and answer my question. I don't need no B.S. answer, Ok! Then I will answer your above questions. See I'm not afraid of your questions. Then we can talk to one another.
skisloper1
Benchwarmer
I cannot debate you anymore. No matter what I say its the same answer......RJ didn't earn his time , He played 3 starting positions as if he's the coach and maline the decisions, Who cares if he is just 21, who cares if he has no leader to mentor him, who cares if he's played with many PG/s since game 1 in the NBA none that would start on another NBA team.......RJ SUCKS you win.
Dark Raider
Starter
Typical when it to hot in the kitchen you have to get OUT!!
I said Talk, You said Debate... When did you change it to debate. Look up above I said TALK.
If you recall, and it seen like you memory isn't as good. YOU STARTED THIS CONVERSATION, Not I.
All you do is make excuses. Stop!! Ok, it makes you look bad. You are taking issue and trying to defend it when you have no ammunition. You been out of ammo from the moment RJ step on the floor. You turn and run when heat is on and the questions are to hard for you.
See I don't run away from nobody!! Bring it ON!! For whomever!!
Oh Yeah, "RJ SUCKS I win"..... Correct, We Lose!! Knicks and Fans!! As always you forgotten what this is about. Not individual but team, team, team Ski. As Yoda said to Luke "That is why you fail"!!
Later
skisloper1
Benchwarmer
To answer your questions........
1. I do not see any player we can trade RJ for that would move this team.
2. Do you really call this a team ?
3. We have not had a PG in how many years ? btw a starting PG that consistently runs the team.
4. I think the Knicks stink. We lose games in the 4th quarter because other teams step up and dont play down to our potential.
now I believe I have answered these questions.
Dark Raider
Starter
1. For last 3 years, RJ was one PG. E. Payton was the PG after RJ. Walkers became the PG after Payton wasn't sign.
2. Who has been the team leader for the past 3 years? There hasn't been a team leader for the last 3 years. M.Morris called the player only meeting. Dotson from what I been told was well like among the players. D. Rose isn't because he isn't commanding it.
** I have often said 'When a team makes a run at you(Knicks) and a time out is called what player do they look at coming off and going back on the court'. No player.... If there was a leader then the players would be looking at him. That is telling.
3. Correct it is not RJ role and it can never be because he doesn't have leadership ability. No player is going to follow RJ because if they know the history of his being on the Knicks then it ain't happening. Players talk and let go back to that player only meeting. Let talk about all of those players that aren't on the team now. What the likelihood of all those players being gone off the team in less than 3 years. Do the Math!!
4. Starting line-up for this current roster? I don't give a damn what it is!! All of the players I care about are gone. I see that cancer as one of the main reasons they are gone to protect him. Of course, he didn't make the calls but like I said he is the face of all problems.
**Now let me say this to you. I answer you because you post a comment to me. If you speak to me I'll reply back. It's common curiosity. I don't shoot you line of B.S. and I'm honest to a fault. Tell you what I see and why. I have no problem being wrong... lord knows I been wrong a number of times in life. So, I want dodge the hard question or just say something to make myself right. I don't work like that. You might not like the positions I take when it comes to the Knicks. I don't give a damn.... I care about the Knicks. Again, I'll tell you what I see and what I know. On many occasions I think I have replied "you are correct".
There are some things that aren't debatable.... like our current state of affairs.... They aren't good. The large question is what solve this state? Not very fond of B.S. because of the suffering I feel with the Knicks. So I haven't and I never will B.S. you about the Knicks, Ok. I don't want to debate but I will carry a conversation with you. I hope I explain myself and if we carry a conversation again then you know where I stand.
Hope I answer all of your questions. If not just tell me what I miss.
skisloper1
Benchwarmer
The only thing I do not agree with you on is your disdain for RJ. If the knicks are such a dysfunctional organization how can a 21 year old thrive. Minutes, not earning a starting role and multiple positions cannot be helpful to an 18 year olds growth when they come into the NBA and it remains that way for the 3 years he's been in.
There are some things that aren't debatable.... like our current state of affairs.... They aren't good. The large question is what solve this state? Not very fond of B.S. because of the suffering I feel with the Knicks. So I haven't and I never will B.S. you about the Knicks, Ok. I don't want to debate but I will carry a conversation with you. I hope I explain myself and if we carry a conversation again then you know where I stand.
Dark Raider
Starter
Has RJ not thrived in this dysfunctional organization? Minutes, not earning a starting role and multiple positions has certainly not hurt his growth as an 18-year-old. Nobody forced RJ into the league... He chose it. Whoever was handling him they knew the Knicks were desperate and they saw a PLUM to be pick. He would be the face of the Knicks and make big money while we as a team suffer.
You think of RJ in the above statement. Can you think about team and the players this has hurt? Think about our(Knicks, mine and your) current state of affairs if these decisions weren't made to support RJ. You have heard me say, Cancer, Not Earned, Competition, Chemistry. From the 1st season the cancer that was already in the organization started to spread into the team. What do you think the 'Players Only Meeting' says? Nothing Good came out of it for the team and the players that spoke up.
You view RJ as a victim. I view RJ as complicit. No players received the treatment that RJ has gotten. And the team is worst for it. Now there talk of resigning him.
Can you look someone in the eye and say he earned everything he received in from the F.O.? If you can great.... I can't and keep myself respect. There is no fairness or justice for those that suffer.
"Not very fond of B.S. because of the suffering I feel with the Knicks"! Do you Suffer??
skisloper1
Benchwarmer
Like I said I gave up my season tickets that I had since 1989.......so yes i could not take the pain anymore.....
This is where we disagree. I do not see RJ as complicit. I see him doing what the FO and coach tells him to do because he WORKS for them.
Do I believe this treatment of RJ has hurt other players YES.
Do I believe for all the reasons I said about that this is NOT situation for RJ to thrive. Minutes and point scored mean nothing if you cannot evolve into a better team player.......The Knicks do not have a team.
Dark Raider
Starter
RJ is not a team player!!! He is a ME player. This could be because of F.O. to some degree but RJ has been on team before now. RJ has reach his peak of thriving and being a better player. We have gotten all there is to get.
**When he THRIVE the team dies. Just look at his performances and the current state of affairs. Minutes and point scored(meaningful) sure translate into better chemistry and better ball movement. See any of that with all of his minutes and points? At some point there has to be a light that RJ shows when it relates to team.
"See him doing what the F.O. and coach tells him to do". I agree!! There are consequences for those lofty treatments. There is resentment from other players especially the ones that were hurt and hurting from his special treatment. Can you put yourself on a team playing with RJ? Knowing you should be getting a lot of those almost 40 minutes a game and we are still losing.
**So how do you build chemistry with a player like RJ??
**"The Knicks do not have a team" quoting you. Why don't they have a team? It been 3 years of him getting special treatment. Why hasn't this team grown? Why hasn't it gotten better? Again, there should be a light coming from him that says "I'm giving you pure hope".... Like KP!! There is nothing like that. So you must now look in the mirror and say WHY?
The foundation is bad with organization and team. When a foundation is bad you have to demo the whole thing. Whole thing!!
skisloper1
Benchwarmer
so we are back to where we started....
You believe RJ is not a team player and should not be resigned.
I believe RJ with the right leaders will be a great team player.
As we agreed we shall see...........
I have zero issue about losing any knick to make this team better,
Dark Raider
Starter
I wish I could see what you see!! Believe I do.... but this whole situation started out bad. A Front Office that doesn't know when to Tank and who to draft.
Tell you what I will do lets look at this thru your eyes. Closing my eyes and you guide. I think that fair. One question before we do I forget all of my BB knowledge or part of it?
Ok, just tell me where you going to start at, and I'll follow you with eyes close. Take me into greatness with "right leaders" so I can see what you see.
Fair??
skisloper1
Benchwarmer
This is now Fantasy world because the Knicks are unable to sign anyone it seems........and I am not saying we should have signed them.
Chris Paul would have been a great floor leader for the young Knicks players especially RJ.
mafra
Legend
The Knicks? net rating (estimated point differential per 100 possessions) in the fourth quarter over their last 10 games is -34.9 ? last in the NBA, with the Rockets (-21.4) the next closest. Their fourth-quarter offensive rating (estimated points scored per 100 possessions) in that span is 85.5, well below the next-closest team, the Trail Blazers (100).
?I think experience, particularly when you have a lead, controlling and managing the game ? the fourth quarter?s different,? Thibodeau said. ?The intensity of the fourth quarter is different. Decision-making is different. When you have an experienced guy in that position, I think you can control things a lot better. So we?re working on it. We gotta get better at it.?
?I think experience, particularly when you have a lead, controlling and managing the game ? the fourth quarter?s different,? Thibodeau said. ?The intensity of the fourth quarter is different. Decision-making is different. When you have an experienced guy in that position, I think you can control things a lot better. So we?re working on it. We gotta get better at it.?
Dark Raider
Starter
?Unable to sign anyone? that can improve the team.t
Is that what you mean?? If so I agree.
Paul or D. Rose is great if used correctly. Both are PG. Would not either be more valuable to Frank than RJ? Both Paul and D. Rose are not building block. They are only bridges to the future. See what you see now is what Phil saw over 4 or 5 years ago. Bring in D.Rose, M. Beasley, Noah to mentor and teach Frank, KP, Knox, MRob.
A team in the making was destroyed by stupidity and incompetent. That why the Knicks are in this current state.
**If Phil was still in charge you would have never seen RJ on this team.
Everything needs to be replaced and start over. Keeping nothing from F.O. to the Waterboy.
skisloper1
Benchwarmer
Yes I meant unable to sign anyone. I mean history speaks for itself.
Any player not on the current team is no longer relevant.
If you believe in Veteran Mentoring then this is what I think RJ is missing.
With that lets hope I am right and you are wrong. However if he does not get it then I agree RJ will not evolve to what I believe he will be.