Raptors/Knicks trade getting hotter

N

NYKnicks15

Starter
we all know of the year long pursuit of Jalen Rose and a 1st round pick to New York for Penny Hardaways expiring contract. well it just got a little hotter. sources say that it could turn into a multiplayer swap that would have Jalen Rose, Mike James & a 1st Round pick coming to New York for Penny Hardaway and Trevor Ariza.

personally i like Trevor but i just dont think hes clicked as of yet. and that if we can get both Rose and James id be veryyy happy. stop all this bs about we should wait for a superstar trade etc etc with our roster we cant do that. what do you think about this trade?
 
portega1968

portega1968

El Cacique
Mike James would fit nicely in our backcourt, and I believe Jalen can be an asset as a point forward with our trigger-happy guards.

However, I'm worried that a better deal may come along before the deadline that could be made if we still have Penny's deal.

Also, Trevor Ariza falls under the "Gilbert Arenas clause" in the new CBA, which means that we can match any offer he (second-rounder) gets as a free agent without it counting against our cap. Are we ready to give up on Trevor, considering he can be a Knick for life without hurting our cap?
 
hometheaterguy

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
I was hoping that the Knicks might package Ariza in with our expiring contract(s) to try to make a deal with Indiana for Artest and Croshere. I like Mike James but he is a score first type of player as well!
 
JaDaMeL05

JaDaMeL05

Benchwarmer
hometheaterguy said:
I was hoping that the Knicks might package Ariza in with our expiring contract(s) to try to make a deal with Indiana for Artest and Croshere. I like Mike James but he is a score first type of player as well!
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Thats under the previous system's he's been in. Mike James is a good energy player than can score and pass. Dont forget he played for LB when the pistons won the championship in 2004. So he already knows he's gonna be a pass first point guard that has to play D if he comes here.
 
hometheaterguy

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
Well, I like James but I think I would not make that deal. If the Artest for Pedra goes through, I guess I would have to consider it but I still wouldn't give up on Ariza. It's a shame if we did trade him at this point, I had high hopes for Ariza. I always thought they should have played him at the 2 then let his game come to him. He plays decent D, he is quick and energetic. He drives to the paint and has pulled off a pretty dunk or two since I've been to the Garden! Always thought he'd make a better 2 than a 3 at this point.
 
hoop115

hoop115

Benchwarmer
Portega has a valid point. Who knows how many conversations Isaiah has had with other teams and how close he is on getting other trades done. I think it would best to hold off on this trade until closer to the trade deadline to see if there are any other packages available.

It wouldn't upset me too much though if this is the best we can get for only one of our expiring contracts. This trade fills several of our needs.
A.) Mike James fills the defensive/distributor PG that Larry Brown covets. He's said to be one of LB's favorites off the bench during the Pistons championship run.
B.) We traded our 2006 1st round draft pick to Chicago for Curry and it's unprotected. If the season were to end now we would have the 4th overall pick, toronto would have the 3rd. I know whatever they send us will probably be lottery protected but I read that Isaiah is working on to what extent it's protected and for how many years. We also swapped the rights to trade picks with Chicago in 2007. If we end up with a lower pick Chicago can exercise their right to swap those picks which is also unprotected. In addition to those two picks we also traded our 2007 & 2009 2nd round picks. And if you haven't kept up with Isaiah's original blockbuster trade, we still owe a first round pick for the package we sent over to acquire Stephon Marbury which is due to become unprotected in 2009. It is imperative that we acquire as many picks as we can during the next few years.
C.) even if we were to let the contracts of penny & davis to expire, we would still be over the cap and have to pay a luxury tax. might as well eat rose's contract and not allow penny fall off the books for nothing.
 
M

Moz106

Benchwarmer
We should try to get miami in this trade for alonzo mourning, we need a leader on the court, he's a shot blocking beast better than big ben.......
 
A

Allen

Benchwarmer
I don't know about trading any of our young players including Trevor Ariza. Why is everyone so quick to trade away any of our rookies and Ariza?

Why take take the risk of trading players that could be our core players for a long time for older players with large contracts?

I rather wait for our young players to develop than to throw them away at a whim.
 
A

Allen

Benchwarmer
I'm suprised that some of the posters are so willing to trade away our young players so recklessly.

First it was trade the young players for Kevin Garnett,
then it was trade our young players for Ron Artest,
now its trade our young players for Jalen Rose.

Who is the next "superstar" player that people are willing to trade our young players for?
 
N

NYKnicks15

Starter
were not quick to ship out rookies. and were not shipping out ariza for rose its more like ariza for james and rose. ariza isnt fitting the system well. hes playing like garbage. picking up an insane amount of personal fouls STUPID ONES at that. i know this is his second year but cmon man.

plus wed be getting a first rounder which is a kicker. by the way Jalens D is pretty good. not in Toronto because hes not asked to play any but in Indy and Denver it was. btw Graham guarded Kobe that game not Rose.
 
Starks

Starks

Starter
Rose doesn't impress me at all. But he sure as hell would contribute 100% more than what Penny does, so i guess its better than nothing.

Mike James is worth it. I don't think there is going to be any young decent point guards available in free agency or trades any time soon, so maybe he can be like our "Nazr Mohamad band-aid at center" to cover point gaurd. Sam Cassel is a free agent after this year, and Mike Bibby is one next year. We wouldn't have the room to offer them anything anyway though, so Mike James and Earl Watson is the alternative.

I'd rather see the Knicks surprise the league and make a move for the available Paul Pierce or Rashad Lewis though. But Indiana would probably take alot less for Artest to be honest.
 
hoop115

hoop115

Benchwarmer
First of all, I'm not exactly in favor of trading away our young talent, but there are several factors involved of why this trade would be ok.

A. Ariza has fallen to third on the depth charts at small forward behind Lee and Woods. LB's criticism has hit Ariza hard and it now seems as if he's been in a season long funk.

B. Although we'll be eating Jalen's contract, it'll be a wash sale since Rose and Penny make relatively the same amount. Rose's contract would have the same type of effect on our cap as Penny's would if we were to let Penny's contract expire at the end of the year. Now we'll be getting something in return with the added bonus is that we'll be able use Rose's contract as trade bait next year since he'll be a free agent at the end of next year.

C. Although we're losing a young player like Ariza, we would be getting one back in Mike James, and we already know he can handle being under LB's demanding system.

D. Yes, we do have Ariza's "Arenas Rights" which will come into play next year, but the question will come as to whether or not we want to even offer him a long term contract after next season. He's on the rookie scale right now, and is set to make considerably more in his next contract. He needs to start showing more progress for us to guarantee him more money.

E. Our need to acquire draft picks for the forseable future.
 
A

Allen

Benchwarmer
Some of you make some good points. I like Mike James but I still have reservations about Jalen Rose. Trevor Ariza has a lot of potential to be a great player. I don't want to see him be traded just because he has not progressed as much as we would like.
 
hometheaterguy

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
Young talent is always a gamble! You look at Frye and he seems like he'll be a strong offensive force for years to come but could turn out to be a dud after all is said and done. My point is, yes we need to take a chance on young talent but not at the expense of turning down NBA proven talent. Ariza, Lee, Nate can be expendable if we are using them to bring back Artest or Lewis. The one thing I like about Ariza, for the most part, is when he is in the game he is always involved. Either is a steal or a rebound or a put back... But that doesn't mean he will be some great commodity for a team. I've seen these guys come and go year after year. So, if we can land Artest or Lewis or Harrington, then you have to part with a young guy and/or draft picks. Proven talent is always better than a promise!!
 
A

Allen

Benchwarmer
hometheaterguy if thats the case why have a draft for young players. Lets just recycle the "proven" talent over and over and over until they break down from old age.
There comes a time when older established players can no longer play and then what will you do. I do not want another "Allen Houston" on our hands. An aging player who can't play with a huge contract we can't move.
I look with envy at San Antonio and Detroit and think thats how you build an NBA championship team.
 
hometheaterguy

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
Allen said:
hometheaterguy if thats the case why have a draft for young players. Lets just recycle the "proven" talent over and over and over until they break down from old age.
There comes a time when older established players can no longer play and then what will you do. I do not want another "Allen Houston" on our hands. An aging player who can't play with a huge contract we can't move.
I look with envy at San Antonio and Detroit and think thats how you build an NBA championship team.
Click to expand...

That was just a rediculous statement! So you wouldn't trade Lee/Ariza or Nate for Artest? C'mon man where is the logic in that? I didn't say trade the farm for Joe Smith. You would only trade young, unproven talent for a higher profile, NBA proven all star (not necessarily a super star). You wouldn’t include Frye in a trade if you we getting someone like Garnett? And to say never draft and just recycle is not only unrealistic, but the game would have no life after 15 years. Would I have trade LaBron, the year he was drafted, for Artest? No at all!!! But LaBron was almost a given. Also, if you trade someone away, and they turn out to be a star, you might be able to sign them in the future anyway. If you are a GM, you know the direction your team is going and if you would part with someone who will be a long term commitment (long term includes the development of their skills as well) for a veteran so you can win now or are you building for the future. If you are building for the future than you will keep all your picks over the years and release the ones that don’t work out and as your team starts to become better, you go out and get a piece or two (either through free agency or trades) to cement your lineup.
 
A

Allen

Benchwarmer
As I have said I'm just very cautious about trading young even if unproven talent and getting stuck with another "Allen Houston" situation.
 
A

Allen

Benchwarmer
To answer the question, no I would not trade Lee/Ariza or Nate for Artest.
Ron Artest = Terrel Owens...more trouble than they are worth.

Look at San Antonio and Detroit as an example of how to build and have a NBA championship callibur team for a long time.
It doesn't look like we have that kind of patience.
 
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