I truely want to know if you watched games last season
With everything you said, the point still remains, after that last game Crawford played against the Heat, the Knicks were thriving and strongly in the playoff hunt... He goes out, and suddenly they are not in the playoff hunt... I know YOU and some OTHERS, would like to believe the Knicks hit a wall or some other crap, but the fact remains, Crawford helps the Knicks win, he gives them a little of everything which makes him a player that the Knicks need in the line-up. I can say maybe from previous years why someone would come out so overwhelmingly against Crawford, but after the season that just past, it is just ludricous to me. You harp on the fact that he averaged 17ppg. But yo, he is the 3rd option!!! Curry, Marbury and then Crawford, How many points do you want your 3rd option to score??? I trley dont get some people
Originally Posted by jzero29
Mislead sheep, easily dazzled by the random exciting plays, ignore the screw ups
Good point Metrocard, Jamaal has never won with anyteam being a main option. Carrol is similar and not only bigger, cheaper. He is just as good as jamaal on defense. maybe mat carrol isn't as good all around on offense. But he doesn't need to dominate the ball like crawford does to be effective. So other players who do need to dominate, get the ball and when they draw their doubles a good role playing shooter will be there. Maybe he mad curry a little better, i think curry would have done well with anyone who consistently fed him the ball, he's a big guy. But jamaals dominance of the ball detracted from everyone elses game, for instance, stephs game. jamaal takes the ball away from our best player, outside of curry. Jamaa l is good all around offensive player, except his tendency to turn over, take ridiculous shots and dominate the ball. So if you want to see jamall crawford shoot, and not qrich and steph? then these people are idiots. Metrocard i think your the only one who sees it. Blance is where its at. Even Kobe's team can't make it to NBA finals, no balance. Jamaal is no Kobe. Kobe can shoot. Detroit chicago, san antonio, utah, phoenix. They don't really have any player who needs the ball constantly besides their PG, who sets up everyone, not just one player(eddy curry)
Originally Posted by metrocard
Lilman first of all, in 15 less games crawford shot only 60 shots less than marbury, so he would have ended up shooting his 15 per game, Some of those 15 shots would have been marburys, jamaal if healthy would have shot way more than steph, our best shooter, besides q-rich. so if you shoot second most on team, your the second option. Thats just plain fundemental. If i have to constantly go over these things with you. I'm going to pull all my hair out.
Originally Posted by lilman_bklyn
Knicks for Life, you mention how jamaal doesn't shot fade away 3's plays to his strengths and got to the line more than any time in his career? Maybe you watched most of his good games and missed all (the many) the terrible ones? He was 228-272 from the line last year, (thats 272 foul shots attempted for those special people who don't understand numbers). The previous year,under brown, (who limited his shots and put him in the role he should have), he was 295-357 from the line, 357 foulshots is more than 272 right? 295 foul shots made, is more than 272 attempted. So it is safe to say this wasn't the year he went to the line most. The avgs are similar.
As for as them dropping out of the playoff race, when crawford wasn't around, they didn't have a shooting guard at all at that time. I remeber crawford was out early in the year, and q-rich was SG, they went on a roll, Curry was scoring and everything with out jamaal holding his hand!!!Amazing, then crawford forced back into mix, screwed them up. And when jamaal went down at the end of the year that left the knicks without a true sg. The only guy was mardy collins? ROOKIE, who made a ton of ROOKIE mistakes. It's not like they were winning everygame while they were with him and they lost all without him, The end of the season, Qrich, steph and jamaal were all out, for long stretches and LEE. So a big part of the knicks wasn't playing. They started losing. It wasn't Just crawfords absence it was half the team was gone.
Okay, Crawford is a better all around player on Offense, They are similar on defense. Carrol is just a roll player(who DID start most of last season, just not in the begining) My problem with crawford is he takes more shots than better players on his own team, he should be the 4th option last year, with the addition of Randolph the 5th option this year. the order should be 1 curry, 2/3 randolph/marbury 4th Qrich 5th crawford. You can't debat the first 3, maybe q-rich, but i like him, better D, Better shooter. So as the 5th option, getting his large salary, you couldn't replace the 5th option with a guy like mat carrol? for less than half the money? This is why the knicks have cap trouble. Because you don't care about over paying 5th option players. It's a sickness. Whats wrtong with haveing a role player that won't take shots away from your top 4 offensive options?
Totally your opinion, and who is changing that? Only thing Im saying is that based off of last season, I'd rather have Jamal a million times over than Carrol or Barnes. Not even a debate. Heck I would not even take those guy sover Nate at this point.
Last season, Jamal played within his game. Somehow Isaiah got him to stop taking Fade away 3's and concentrate on his strengths more. He is very good from 15 ft and got to the line more than any time in his career. If he continues to build off that he will be even better. And remember, his role changed a lot during the season as well.
And this is the bottom line... Things all fell apart WHEN HE GOT HURT! If Crawford would have never got hurt the Knicks would have made the playoffs without Lee and Q.
You guys can throw out all the percentages you like. And to some extent they matter. But you still have to go by what you see. The floor was spaced when Crawford was on the floor. He went out, it shrunk. We started to lose. Hmmm...
exactly, No one on the team can shoot, All though I think Q-rich can, but he gets hurt to often. No one on the team can shoot including crawford, worst fg% out of all guards and small forwards, except ROOKIE collins, rookie jitters? The knicks need a shooter. I'd sacrifice jamaals versitile game, let marbury, nate and others pick up that slack, and bring in a straight shooter. A guy who doesn't need to dominate the ball to get it done. Someone who can camp out on the arch, but can't be left alone.
Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
I'm sorry I didn't mean to promote carrol to allstar quality, I'm just saying he's a decent 5th option, such as jamaals role should be, behind curry,zack/marbury, q-rich then Crawford. Carrol is a decent 5th option. Crawford is not a good second option, as he tends to chuck and turnover to much, dominating the ball and not getting the rest of his team involved (beside Curry).
1 Carrol started most of last season. He may not be as exciting and he isn't as good all around on offense as jamaal. But he's more what the knicks really need out of the SG position. Someone who doesn't need to dominate the ball and taking shots away from better options. again i list the order of 1 curry 2/3 zach/marbury 4 q-rich 5 crawford. I think carrol would be a fine fifth option off the bench instead of turnover prone and bad shot taking crawford. Crawford is a better player and could be good elsewhere or if we traded a couple guys in front of him, on the offensive option ranks. He's over paid for a 5th option, carrol would not only fit better, not needing as many shots to be affective, he makes money sense as well, something NY has to start paying attention to, or we'l wallow in mediocrety or plain out losing, forever! Crawford dominates the ball, making himself the 2nd option, by shooting more than anyone beside curry. Marbury should have gotten more shots than him. But he didn't. Crawford can't play like he did last year, he needs to play the role of 4th or 5th option, which is why he's overpaid and as metrocard said worthless. Other guys avging 15 shots were like at least whole point higher than crawford in scoring avg. and those are the scrubs!!! The only guy who was with jamaal was stojackavic(similar), who everyone knows had a terrible season last year, with injuries and such,Still shot better from 3pt land than jamaal did from anywhere on floor. but jamaals similar season is called one of his best? Come on! The only stat jamaal has him on is assists, thanks to eddy curry, but jamaal with all his turnovers because he's passing in to eddy instead of the point guard. The pg should be passing, or at least, not turning it over so much!!!
Originally Posted by lilman_bklyn
Less cheeseburgers and more laps! that makes eddy better. Do you really think a guy who scored so well, even when doubled, cares who's passing him the ball as long as they keep doing it? I'll give you eddy struggled when jamaal was out, but so was q-rich and steph for most of that time, They had NO shooters at all!!! So of course with out a SG on your roster the perimeter shrinks for the big man. and not to mention, Curry is a little heavy. His stamina has been an issue for a long time. Long season, tired legs, teams paying him more attention, Not a shooting guard on the active roster? And on defense, lee was out for a good portion of that time too. Eddy having to work harder, on defense, how many offensive rebounds did other teams have at end of season, second chance points, eddy having to play d longer that when he had good rebounder like lee and q-rich next to him. 4/5th option jamaal, is just an overpaid guy, We could settle for a little less all around offensive talent, and go with a more talented shooter, for less cash. that equals more shots for randolph, curry, marbury and Q-rich. get ride of crawford all together and Nate gets more time and shots. Better 3pt shooter. Can take it to the hole. Still can be labled with potential. I'm just saying crawford is overpaid and not talented enough at any position to start. If the knicks were smart they'd get ride of him, but they can't because no one wants to pay that much for his mediocre slightly above avg skills on offense. See he's good at alot of different things on offense, but a master of none, there are sg out there, that don't get paid as much as crawford that could easily bring more to the team by needing the ball less. I'd take stoja over him anyday. They get paid similar money. You tell me is crawford worth it?
Originally Posted by datruth