Metro whats up
Let me explain to you why i think it should start with Curry or Zack now down low first then let it move from there so that we can have a good half court strategy going. ight marbury brings the ball down the court passes to zack or Curry now once they get doubled with the other players moving around which didnt happen last year Curry or Zack can find an open player they can pass the ball and make open shots for everyone else. Now you say Curry cant pass. Ok the problem isnt that Curry dosnt pass the problem is that everyone was standing around last year not getting open and the one person who was left open usually was on the other side of the court. Now just because it goes into Curry's or Zack's hands first dosnt mean the rest of the team is not involved because they are a big part of when he gets double they get open and score the easy basket. still team ball. just like the point guard getting the ball first before almost every play but its still a team game right. Now if the players move around and Curry still cant pass the ball then hey we can start most plays with Zack cause i know you seen him pass the ball pretty good huh then when he gets doubled he can pass it to the open guy and hey they get easy basket still a team sport everyone needs to play together. Now on defense cause i know your big on defense ive said it so many times if we play together and work as a team which also includes the coach making up a plan for each team to shut them down each player would look so much better. the Spurs look so good on Defense because they work as a team to stop people so does dallas and i beleive if we do it together so will NY. Unfortunatly im not sure how great Isiah is as a coach i do like the team he put together but i really dont like him as a coach cause he dosnt bring the team together and he dosnt plan strategies for defense for any team
Not really, the comment shows I don't need to be serious all time. You get mad when I don't be serious, in response to your sarcasm? Ayy bendito.
You've failed to explain why Eddy Chubby's a top 50 player again. Is this the 3rd time in a row? Could you possibly go for 4? Is that even possible?
Size? Come on brother; I guess Peter John Ramos should be ranked up top 50 too. That guy is huge, 7"3 and 290.
Ability? Is this the only word that came to mind? I could honestly give much better reasons than you're giving me right now. I actually feel like debating myself with how soft you're going here, especially with words like "ability". Size and ability aren't even the main reasons why Chubby has value.
You never clarified anything in your post, no head to comparisons, didn't even mention basic things like Eddy Chubbys strengths.
Curry wasn't even invited to team USA camp. Why? FIBA is fast paced and fundamental. The half court is smaller in size compared to the NBA, so big men have lesser space. This is why a lot of good passing big men look good in FIBA, because they know how to move the ball and still create plays in and out. Curry doesn't have this ability. Having a big man who knows how to pass is great for the offense, instead of having a guy who doesn't move the ball and turns it over at a high rate, making the defense easy for other teams. Tyson Chandler made it over Eddy, so where this value of Curry you speak of? BTW, I would take Chandler over Curry in a heartbeat. Size, rebounding, shot blocking, interior defense, and 7"1 PF/C hybrid. Randolph/Chandler would be the ultimate duo, both compliment each other greatly, don't you agree? Curry didn't even make the all star team in an East Conference inferior in big men compared to the Western Conference.
Like I said, you'll never find an answer to why the Eddy Chubby of today is a top 50 NBA player. PLAYER, not post scorer or turnover machine or plays defense with a pillow, I'm talking about PLAYER, overall compared to the rest of the competition in the NBA.
Chubby isn't even the best player on the KNICKS.
Dwight Howard is 6"11 275 lbs, and is the most diesel dude in the NBA.
Chubbyis 6"11 280, and is chubby. So no, Chubby doesn't make Dwight look like a lightweight, Dwight is the guy usually making other guys look like lightweights.
Oden isn't one dimensional like Chubby and was hyped since high school; plus Portland needed a center. Plus he had an amazing freshman year even playing with an injury, dude deserve the number one pick for sure. He got injured, so? His weakness obviously is conditioning, and he needs to improve on it.
Chubby inability to pass the ball wasn't a problem last year? How many times we saw him force plays, turnovers, fouls and miss the open man that limited our offense?
There were 2-3 people guarding Curry at times, did you watch the Knicks last season? There were always 2-3 guys OPEN every time Chubby had the ball. Chubby constantly ignore them, and try finish the play as an individual. I got so use it, when Chubby finally did pass I jumped out of my couch and celebrated. Chubby guy didn't even average 1 assist last season, and had the worst assist to turnover ratio in the NBA.
The point guard suppose to touch the ball every play...no really??? Its funny how you talk about "team" ball, but only mention like 3 players names.
The guys who played team ball last season
Guys who didn't
Team ball meaning, playing defense at the best of their ability, sharing and creating shot opportunities and turnovers, and just being play makers on both sides of the ball, consistently.
Individual play = one on one play, high rate of turnovers, more negative than positive, very little effort or efficiency on defense.
You said Chubby should get the ball 90% of the time; meaning he should dominate the ball most of the time. First of all, Chubby isn't that good to be dominating the ball 90% of the time. He isn't Shaq, KG, Duncan, or even Randolph. When you come with Curry as your main weapon, compare to the other main weapons in the NBA...you're coming in pretty weak.
I actually like Isiah more than a coach than a GM. He's a player's coach, but the team he put together has too many holes and he majority of his trades have failed our franchise.
I know hes not shack or tim duncon but just like those two guys you mentioned he demands the double or triple team at all times thats why omg he deserves to be part of the top 50. he demands you said it yourself he demands the double even the triple at times so does that explain enough to you why he is on our list of top 50. ight now you never said anything about what i said that the team wasnt moving even if they were open they werent in a good position or cuttng to the basket so that they can get an open shot. You never said i was wrong so i guess i was right like i am right about saying that the turnover problem wasnt his falt the team was standing around waiting for him to do something Isiah needs to do something about that and i hope he does this season anything else metro
Originally Posted by metrocard
You are 19 paco, You do not have the ability to make me mad. I just chalk most of what you say as being young and stupid. We've all been there. Just figured you might wanna be mindful of everyone on the board with your insults towards me. You said like an autistic person. Some of your fellow message board members may have to deal with that. Never know. Just saying, a smart guy like yourself should be able to exchange barbs without blanketing a group of persons with mental disabilities. If you were a journalist responding to my post in a blog, you would have likely been fired for that autistic comment. Keep that in mind. My attack was based squarely on you. Of how you are perceived on this board. You are an easy target. You basically open yourself up.
Speaking of ability, since it seems to be a useless word, at least as far as Eddy Curry is concerned. Let me help you out.
a·bil·i·ty (ə-bĭl'ĭ-tē) http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/pron.gif
n., pl. -ties.
Hmm. See that second meaning? Natural or acquired skill. Size does not mean anything alone. Therefore, Curry must be doing something with his ability. I mean, leading the league in points in the paint when so many people are better than you must mean SOMETHING. What was his fg % How did he rate there? What were his ppg by the month after say... jan?
- The quality of being able to do something, especially the physical, mental, financial, or legal power to accomplish something.
- A natural or acquired skill or talent.
Again, I used abilities as to not have to tediously list every single quality concerning Curry. That's what you do. Makes you feel like some message board journalist or something I guess. I don't have that type of time bendito.
We all know his shortcomings. He has A LOT of work to do yet. But, what he does provide is more than enough to take him in a top 50 draft.
By the way... I attend a lot of Knick games bro. Curry swallows Dwight. Had him hanging under the rim time and time out... even with those guns you say he has( and he is pretty big ). If you have not seen the Knicks play Orlando at the Garden, get tickets this year. You will see for yourself how Curry makes him look like a regular forward. Or.. look at Curry's numbers vs Orlando :)
If every big man had Curry's abilities, I could see your point. But they don't. Hence his value is higher than your list. Whether you like it or not. It's so true :)
There your theory already begins to fail since the entry pass on a center or power forward is usually done by a small forward or a shooting guard. There might be a few exceptions (e.g. Stockalone) but generally this is what happens: the PG passes the ball to a SF or SG who either penetrates or passes. If the defense feels threatened by the big man they will either double him using the guard defending the passing man or using the weak side defender. Now Eddie and Zach have to be able to get the ball on the weak side as quickly as possible or at least to the top of the key so that the PG can get the rock on the weak side for him. That is what you are going to play with a dominant bigman. Too much movement without the ball would even make it harder for the big guys to find an open man.
Originally Posted by NYC-BOY
But that leaves us with two main questions:
1.) Whether he Eddie is a top 50 player or not, can he do that? Last season he obviously couldn't too often
2.) What happens if the defense decides to play a zone? Do the Knicks have enough fire power to punish a defense concentrating its effort in the "power zone" around Eddie or Zach?
I think this is the main problem the Knicks are going to have next year. The big guys might be ideal for set play, but the perimeter players are ideal for fast break basketball and 'penetrate and pitch'. So the question (at least from my point of view) isn't so much whether Zach and Eddie can mix, but whether Eddie and Zach can mix with the rest of the team.
I've read more nonsense in this one thread then in all of KOL combined. I'm sure this redderick will quiet once the season starts. When building a team you take the opportunities as they present them selves. The opportunity presented it's self to move Francis and Frye, two players that proved them selves to be underachievers, for Zach Randolph, Fred Jones, and Dan Dickau. So one seemingly untradable player was traded along side a young player for a 20'10 guy trade assets.
Talk about Curry and Randolph slowing us down = more nonsense. Both players can run the fast break, both players are rebounders (read the stats) and both players can score they're asses off. So the argument is that Randolph is not a defensive minded player. Although this is a logical point, it's a moot point. Why constantly focus on the teams faults and not point out that this is a better team today than it was one year ago.
The Knicks have defense in Jeffries. STOP. Read this in it's entirety before you jump to conclusions. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Jeffries injured during his first season as a Knick? Do you think this may be a solid reason why his performance was affected? Jeffries doen't need the ball to be affective and he can play 3 positions. He's a keeper. Give him another year.
Conclusion: Randolph/Jones/Dickau > Francis/Frye.
Randolph brings more to the table than scoring. He's a 20' 10 play that can pass. A tandem of Curry/Randolph can not be guarded. Q. Rich/Crawford/Marbury bring even more versatility to the team and Lee and Balkman off of the bench is a major added bonus. Over all this team is in good shape and better than last years team.
I will agree somewhat with your analysis. I'm eager to see if the shooting will improve from the guards. Have to be able to make teams pay in Zones... cuz they will see a lot.
Nate can shoot, Crawford, Steph and Q are streaky. Collins will have to improve. Doubt Nichols will play much. So I hope with all these interviews Steph is doing he is working relentlessly on the 3 ball. Same for Crawford and Q.
Weak conclusion that doesn't relate to the thread.
Originally Posted by donchris
So you agree 100% with what I said. But no one said Francis/Frye > Randolph/Jones/Dickau. I've already stated we got a positive out of that trade in terms of value.
lol, why did you say OMG in between that? You make me laugh hard bro.
Originally Posted by NYC-BOY
Who the hell is Shack? or even Tim Duncon? I'll google it.
Apparently you're not talking about NBA players.
Eddy Curry isn't top 50. He demands double teams cause it makes the defense easier for opposing teams knowing Curry doesn't pass out of those double teams, hence = turnover. Duncan and Shaq actually pass the ball, REBOUND, and play at a totally elite level offensively and defensively compared to Ed.
How was Curry not part of the problem of turnovers when he by far led the team in turnovers with over 3.6? Almost 1 turnover more than Jamal's 2.7. Heh, Crawford and Curry both got the most minutes on the Knicks, most turnovers, dominated the ball majority of the game, both played terrible defense which a very poor point team differencial. Looking at last season these guys are cancerous. Maybe letting Crawford/Curry run the team ISN'T the smartest idea. They failed miserably in Chicago, they failed last year, why let it happened again? Crawford/Curry = not successful. No succesful players = No successful team. You don't sign a homeless to be the CEO of a company and expect wealth and success. You look for motivated experienced successful people for that position. This is why Isiah is such a GM, he's giving NBA losers like Chubbs and Crawful opportunity to lead a NBA team as the primary and secondary options.
I hope Isiah does something positive, I'm not gonna lie Isiah did something good last year and that was get STARBURY back to his old self after Larry Brown changed Marbury's flow. Isiah got Marbury to play defense, play with more passion and effort. If he can get Curry and Crawford to do this, I won't complain at all and would join the flock of Isiahsexuals.
I was joking with you and I don't really have any reason to insult you because you never said anything that offensive to me. I already made you mad by how you stressed everything. I'm 19, so? I love college, I work 2 part time jobs and I enjoy boxing on my free time. Life is great, thanks for bringing it up. If you're going to generalize me because I'm younger than you, go ahead. People who do that haven't really done anything in their lives so they generalize others based on one thing (age, race, gender, etc silly bull**** like that sensitive/stressed out/mad people look for). You're just making my swagger bigger papa.
Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
Aha @ the contradiction. You left yourself open for the right cross, brother. Ability is a useless word, but why was it your only word? Why discredit yourself like that? You might as well proclaim your whole post as useless.
Whatever Curry's ability is, its not best suited as a primary option to lead us into the playoffs and be competed. Curry would be best fit as a secondary option who gets 28-32 minutes a game because of his poor defense and his inability to pass out of the post.
You still haven't give me a well detailed post on why Curry is better than the 50 players I listed, overall players and value. Come on brother, if you came in here saying Curry had potential to easily crank into the top 50 and become an all star, I would totally AGREE and back you up on that. But you came in here with no logic, facts and a very weak argument of agility that you yourself called useless; how you expect not to drop caca on you?
NBA.com doesn't even rank Curry top 60, he's behind Dalembert and Bogut
1. Kevin Garnett - BOS [PF]
2. Shawn Marion - PHX [SF,PF]
3. Gilbert Arenas - WAS [PG]
4. LeBron James - CLE [SF]
5. Kobe Bryant - LAL [SG]
6. Steve Nash - PHX [PG]
7. Jason Kidd - NJN [PG]
8. Dirk Nowitzki - DAL [PF]
9. Amare Stoudemire - PHX [C]
10. Josh Smith - ATL [SF,PF]
11. Chris Paul - NOH [PG]
12. Andre Iguodala - PHI [SG,SF]
13. Dwyane Wade - MIA [SG]
14. Pau Gasol - MEM [C]
15. Yao Ming - HOU [C]
16. Chris Bosh - TOR [PF]
17. Tim Duncan - SAS [PF]
18. Al Jefferson - MIN [PF,C]
19. Vince Carter - NJN [SG]
20. Ray Allen - BOS [SG]
21. Paul Pierce - BOS [SG,SF]
22. Caron Butler - WAS [SF]
23. Rashard Lewis - ORL [SF]
24. Michael Redd - MIL [SG,SF]
25. Deron Williams - UTA [PG,SG]
26. Allen Iverson - DEN [PG,SG]
27. Chauncey Billups - DET [PG]
28. Joe Johnson - ATL [SG]
29. Tracy McGrady - HOU [SG]
30. Gerald Wallace - CHA [SF,PF]
31. Luol Deng - CHI [SF,PF]
32. Dwight Howard - ORL [C]
33. Marcus Camby - DEN [C]
34. Carlos Boozer - UTA [PF]
35. Lamar Odom - LAL [PF]
36. Antawn Jamison - WAS [PF]
37. Baron Davis - GSW [PG]
38. Emeka Okafor - CHA [PF,C]
39. Jermaine O'Neal - IND [PF]
40. Zach Randolph - NYK [PF]
41. David West - NOH [PF]
42. Rasheed Wallace - DET [PF]
43. Carmelo Anthony - DEN [SF]
44. Kevin Durant - SEA [SG,SF]
45. Brandon Roy - POR [SG]
46. Kevin Martin - SAC [SG]
47. Kirk Hinrich - CHI [PG,SG]
48. Josh Howard - DAL [SF]
49. Leandro Barbosa - PHX [PG,SG]
50. Mike Miller - MEM [SF]
51. Ron Artest - SAC [SF]
52. Mike Bibby - SAC [PG]
53. Andre Miller - PHI [PG]
54. Tony Parker - SAS [PG]
55. Mo Williams - MIL [PG,SG]
56. Ben Gordon - CHI [SG]
57. Jason Terry - DAL [PG,SG]
58. Raymond Felton - CHA [PG,SG]
59. Danny Granger - IND [SF]
60. LaMarcus Aldridge - POR [C]
61. Manu Ginobili - SAS [SG]
62. Randy Foye - MIN [PG,SG]
63. Ricky Davis - MIN [PG,SG]
64. Jason Richardson - CHA [SG,SF]
65. Mehmet Okur - UTA [C]
66. Andrei Kirilenko - UTA [SF]
67. Corey Maggette - LAC [SF]
68. Monta Ellis - GSW [PG,SG]
69. Andrew Bogut - MIL [C]
70. Samuel Dalembert - PHI [C]
71. Eddy Curry - NYK [C]
Alright, I NOW these are NBA fantasy rankings, but still even Yahoo don't got that chubby guy on their top 50.
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This dude is irrelevant right now when it comes to top 50, on my list, NBA, Yahoo and everybodys list, except Isiah; where Crawford and Curry are the top 2.
Come on man, what the **** is this? My kindergarden teacher assistant? Leaving me a smiley face on my homework? Please don't leave smileys at the end of post cause you didn't feel confident in what you wrote. Curry's inabilities hurt us more than his abilities. Re-read my post if you want detail fort that. Peace.
Excellent EXCELLENT post, left off with a great question that will be answered this season, I can't wait!
Every team Bigmen will play the Curry & Zach tandem with there best defense to make a point. And it will be a Zone-Defense.
Which means the shot clock will be under 10 seconds the majority of the time Curry or Zach receive the ball, unless one comes up to the top of the foul line to receive the ball.
Everyone wants Curry & Zach to be the open season starters.
Well, I hope the two could learn how to mix it up at both ends of the court in just one month.
Originally Posted by metrocard
So your point is what exactly? That Curry isn't a top 50 player? This point is relevant to what exactly? Should we trade Curry, and if so for who? Stop being a hater and make a real point. I guess you think this makes me a Currysexual or something but I don't see the point in over exaggerating the weaknesses of a player when clearly his strengths out weigh his weaknesses.
Well, who was talking about life? I just said you do not have the ability to make me mad because you're 19. I'd then be a fool. Not only because of your age, but because of the manner in which you conduct yourself on the boards. You like detailed post right? You give off your opinions as facts, care to give me a detailed post of what kinda person that is? How bout a person glorifies that himself? What is the description for that? I guess when you find the answer it will only bolster your big swagger papa.... OOOOOoooooHHH! But good for you, you love your life, college, Boxing and two jobs, while also being a journalist (who can't spell KINDERGARTEN) on KO.COM. *clapping* All this means what? At the end of the day, unless you have a firm hold on the REAL LIFE, and live for God ( much deeper than KO.COM can offer ) you're basically playing your life like the last two minutes of a 40 pt. blowout on the losing end... Getting destroyed in the game of life. How fun is that?
Originally Posted by metrocard
But, enjoy your supposed.... Life.
Never said his ability was useless, I said the WORD ability must be useless , since you mocked the previous post before that when I said he was top 50 based on his size and ability alone.. I summed up my opinion based on the word ability because I did not want to tediously list every positive in his game. The fact he demands constant double teams or else he scores, makes him more valuable than most the people on that list. There is not one player in the league who Curry won't score 30-35 easy on and possibly foul out if left alone. That is enough to certainly warrant top 50 status, because most of the players on your list cannot say the same.
Probably not good enough to be endorsed by the best poster on KO.COM. And we all know, that his is the only opinion that matters
Although I disagree with your analyses from time to time, this is hilarious.
Originally Posted by metrocard
Originally Posted by donchris
Someone couldn't back up Curry is a top 50 so I just laid down facts. You came out of no where randomly.
Curry's strengths actually underweight his weaknesses. If you can't see that, I suggest you finally get some access to the Knicks and watch them play this season. Curry's interior defense was dreadful and the worst in the NBA. He's as bad as Peter John Ramos.
Just forget about it, its not that important because this forum is about the KNICKS, not me or your emotions.
Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
I didn't mock anything. I was disappointed because the word "ability" was your argument for why Curry was a top 50 player. When I was read it, I was like wtf? Thats it? Must of been a long tiring day for you brother.
So this overused logic that Curry can score and demand double teams makes him top 50? If its top 50 of scoring, I would AGREE with you.
We're talking about top 50 NBA PLAYERS. Meaning man defense, intangibles, turnover ratio, efficiency, passing, shooting, and every other aspect of basketball is included; most things Curry have weaknesses in. Curry doesn't play basketball on defense, I saw him play over 60 games and he was non existent in the majority of the team. He shows zero awareness on defense and looks like a rookie or just not interested. The last time I remember Curry being average on defense was against the Bucks, where he seem like a God that day; hitting 3's and making plays.
So according to you, Curry is better than defensive player of the year Camby, because Camby doesn't demand double teams? This is why your logic fails in everyday possible. If the top 50 was just based on scoring, we wouldn't see the list we see on NBA.com, my list, and anyone else's list. We would see guys like Crawford, Ronald Murray, Barbosa, etc on that list. When Curry has an improvement in his other attributes; primarily to/ast ratio and defense, or even if his improves his scoring(we've heard he's developing a jumpshot) and average over 22 ppg(19 ppg for a guy who gets the ball as much as Curry isn't spectacular); then Curry would easily fall into the top the 50. But right now Curry is stuck in the 70-75 spot.
and if you're going to put Curry in the top 50, then you would have to put Marbury and Randolph in there, who are better than Curry and should be ranked higher than Chubbs. Why don't you make your own top 50 list to validate your point. Its like I'm holding your hand and assisting you in this debate, lol. <~ a joke, don't outburst, or write an essay on my age or a silly user title in put in my profile for laughs. Thanks.
True indeed. You did find some questionable stats on the best 50 players in the league. So kudos to you for backing your self up. My point is the argument is pointless. Currently the offense goes through Curry and that may very well change now that we have Randolph, but I doubt it.
Originally Posted by metrocard
Be realistic. The man improves each year and your best argument is that he turns over the ball and doesn't pass out of double teams? That can be solved in training camp. The fact the he demands a double team is reason enough to make Curry a keeper. You should focus your argument more on the lack of defense from this team all around, not just Curry and Randolph. Some of the best scorers in the league don't play defense.