Felton vs Marbury
Felton's first season as the orchestrator in NYC reminds me a bit of Starbury's arrival back in 04. So much promise and quality in the first few months...disappointment and deterioration in the following years.
So I compared them step by step.
This is what I came up with, lets discuss:
Marbury had it all in terms of talent. His jump shot has never been great, but it wasn't worse than Felton's. Plus his athleticism and penetration were as good as anyone's in the league.
Felton is primarily a jump shooter from the perimeter, with the occasional drive usually finished with a floater. His athleticism is nothing to cheer about.
Steph has never been known as a great defender. He had the strenght and foot speed, but he never sacrificed himself on defense because offense was his priority. Not a bad defender though, I'd call him average.
Felton started the season with good defensive performances, however his defense has not been existent lately. He can't seem to handle certain guys at all (Rondo 24 assists game, Rose career games against us, average PGs looking like All Stars). Hard to say at this point whether it's due to exhaustion or something permanent. His footspeed doesn't seem to be good enough to make life hard for most PGs.
Marbury was a 20 / 8 guy for almost his entire career (the only guy alongside Oscar Roberson at that point).
His passing repertoire was huge, he could get fancy aswell as throwing basic passes. Until Larry Brown ruined his game he was a good passer with the ability to bring the house down with some Rucker Park stuff.
PLus he averaged over 8 assists in a much slower offense under Lenny Wilkens/Herb Williams. I think he would have been a 10 assist guy in Mike D'Antonis offense, especially with the pick and roll.
Felton is a good perimeter passer, solid ball handler and he knows how to throw alley oops, however he's quite turnover prone and he struggles with the pick and roll. His passing arsenal is limited and he sometimes looks a bit odd. His stats are great though in NY and that's definitely something positive.
The biggest deficit in Marbury's career. If it wasn't for his bad attitude we would probably look at a future hall of famer now. In terms of pure talent he was one of the best PGs I have ever seen. His work ethic was questionable though and he never provided much leadership. Always regarding himself as the greatest and his teammates as subordinates rather than mates or fellowmen. His desire was great when he first arrived in NY, but it sort of deteriorated quickly after we got swept by NJ in the playoffs.
Then Larry Brown was employed and Starbury was never himself again on the court. Providing some laughable (for a guy of his caliber) 16.5 points and 6 assits per game.
Felton has great attitude. He's not the most talented PG in the league, but he's a warrior. He doesn't give up and he embraces the role of co-leader off the court. HId behaviour has been excellent so far. A tough nosed PG with the right mentality. In terms of attitude Raymond is everything a NYK fan could hope for.
I think Steph was the better player, especially on offense. His level of talent and athletcism was probably twice as high as Felton's. His bad attitude and the unfortunate employment of Larry Brown as HC ruined his potential legacy with the Knicks.
Felton is an averagely talented PG with great attitude and leadership. His offense can be good for longer stints. If only he could get back to playing defense...he would be a solid enough PG for us.
Your turn :afro:
Id say Marbury.. i thought the larry brown move messed up marbury a bit..
id say that when O'antoni decided to sit him..... and not let him become a leader that season.. i think that was the icing on the cake...
Ray is banged up and thats probably why he is struggling....He's getting overused....
You lost me the minute you talked about disappointment and deterioration considering Felton has only been here half a year and is playing like an all-star.
Marbury is by far the better talent, but who cares, I like Felton's heart and attitude. He's stuck in a little rut right now, but I'm sure he will get out of it sooner or later. Plus Felton doesn't have Starbury's attitude problems.
Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
compare wins and losses....thats all i care about
and its not like marbury had the talent at the time. dude completely lost his mind. he played for the celtics and he sucked. played for china and he sucked....how the hell do u get cut from a chineese team??
You need to change that to "was". He's pretty average these days.
Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
I'll take a guy with a little less talant over a more talented player who is a headcase and a problem in the locker room any day.
Are you comparing Felton's half season here to Marbury's entire career? Or are you just looking at the production of each of their first seasons playing for the knicks?
If your comparing careers then Marbury wins just from how he played his first few years in MIN and NJ.
Either way, you should probably be more specific in your comparisons.
Felton >>>>> Marbury NOW
Marbury >>>>> Felton CAREER
In both their primes, Marbury would be the superior talent. He'd abuse him like Rose did with a long range shot to go with it.
Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
Impossible to measure by these metrics.
Okay, I will admit that maybe Marbury was a better scorer and a better passer, but the amount which he is better than Felton in those two respects is not as much as how much better Felton is at the MENTAL aspect.
In other words, Felton and Marbury are closer in scoring and passing than they are in mental. Marbury's mentality and lack of real leadership when we needed him (like we needed STAT early in the season and he stepped up) far outweighs what he brought us on the floor. The guy has a ton of natural talent but mentally he was never all there.
Everyone seems to not understand the role of the PG in this system. He does not have to score much. He only has to be a real threat to score. Most years Nash took less than 13 shots a game. He also shot around 50% and 45% from three. He was/is also the premier ORCHESTRATOR in the league. Felton is a lousy orchestrator and can't begin to touch Nash's numbers as far as shooting. He played over his head early and has fallen back to earth. His defense is also not as good as advertised. I have no problem replacing him with a pass first guy who moves the ball.
Marbury is definitely more talented. Let's not forget that Marbury was a premier PG in the league when the Knicks first got him.
That being said having talent isn't everything in basketball, and let's not forget that Felton costs a lot less thus making him far more effective given that we gave him a MLE-level conract whereas Isiah handed Marbury the maximum
we didnt give felton a mid level.. we game him about 2 mil more per than year than a MLE...
Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
also, marbury had that contract from the Suns
Fair enough on Felton's MLE.
But I could swear Isiah extended him...