I'm beating a dead horse but Mike D is probably the problem

Toons

is the Bo$$
Mozgov doesn't play because Karl already has two bigs that are really good. Just goes to show you that they could have held back on giving them Mozgov.... I won't blame them for it, though. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Mike does play favorites... you know he does. Players have said he does on numerous occasions. Also... dude.... Anthony Carter, Renaldo Balkman are not the players that make him able to play a 10 man roster now.
Our team was more balanced before (though it still wasn't balanced too well) and he only played 7-8 players. Walker couldn't find playing time. Mozgov was benched for 2-2/1/2 months. Anthony Randolph never saw the court unless there was garbage (minutes) on it.

The problem MDA is running into now... and I said it in the other thread... is that the inmates (players) are running the asylum. Billups is slowing down the offense and the players are calling the coach out on his (lack of) defensive mindset. If he wants to keep his job, he NEEDS to keep Billups and Melo (half-court players) happy. That is why he decided to have a defensive practice -- not because he had an epiphany, but because the players wanted it.

Let's be honest. MDA is what he is: a one dimensional coach that lives off a gimmick.

that goes to prove my pint that mozgov is not really good. not that you ever said he was really good, but in another thread it was stated after he had that one good game, that he should be getting consistent minutes.

Im sure kobe is phil jacksons favorite player on the team, and duncan is pops fav as well. So what.

Sooo, they didnt play in the miami game? balkman and carter played valuable minutes in our win over miami. The fact of the matter is, it has evolved into an offense to incorperate more players than before.

when have the PLAYERS called the coach out? what i read, and heard was that mike called billups, amare and melo aside and had a meeting with them, then mike called a meeting with the team to discuss defense for a few hours. where did it come from that the players were calling the shots? last player that undermined dantoni was marbury, and look where he is now.

yes, dantoni doesnt hang his hat on defense, but he does stress it, and with a defensive minded centre, we are in the hunt for a ring
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
that goes to prove my pint that mozgov is not really good. not that you ever said he was really good, but in another thread it was stated after he had that one good game, that he should be getting consistent minutes.

Im sure kobe is phil jacksons favorite player on the team, and duncan is pops fav as well. So what.

Sooo, they didnt play in the miami game? balkman and carter played valuable minutes in our win over miami. The fact of the matter is, it has evolved into an offense to incorperate more players than before.

when have the PLAYERS called the coach out? what i read, and heard was that mike called billups, amare and melo aside and had a meeting with them, then mike called a meeting with the team to discuss defense for a few hours. where did it come from that the players were calling the shots? last player that undermined dantoni was marbury, and look where he is now.

yes, dantoni doesnt hang his hat on defense, but he does stress it, and with a defensive minded centre, we are in the hunt for a ring

Don't you know this is the latest made up BS by people who despise D'ant? They fully expect the Knicks to play better ball now that we have our own version of a "Big Three" and they want to preempt any credit D'ant may get. Now it's that D'ant is a "figurehead" with no power and it's really Billiups and Melo running the show...
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
that goes to prove my pint that mozgov is not really good. not that you ever said he was really good, but in another thread it was stated after he had that one good game, that he should be getting consistent minutes.

Im sure kobe is phil jacksons favorite player on the team, and duncan is pops fav as well. So what.

Sooo, they didnt play in the miami game? balkman and carter played valuable minutes in our win over miami. The fact of the matter is, it has evolved into an offense to incorperate more players than before.

when have the PLAYERS called the coach out? what i read, and heard was that mike called billups, amare and melo aside and had a meeting with them, then mike called a meeting with the team to discuss defense for a few hours. where did it come from that the players were calling the shots? last player that undermined dantoni was marbury, and look where he is now.

yes, dantoni doesnt hang his hat on defense, but he does stress it, and with a defensive minded centre, we are in the hunt for a ring

Mozgov could have been better. he wasn't excellent, but just having a Big helps. He should have seen playing time.

My point is that they played one game, and that playing that many players is an anomaly for D'Antoni. My other point is that the reason why he did it then was not because of his own devices.

Melo and Billups came in and then all of a sudden MDA is clamoring for a defensive practice? That doesn't strike you as odd at all?

D'Antoni doesn't and never has stressed defense. There have multiple quotes from league officials, NBA analysts, media and other coaches that have expressed as much in this thread. We've seen the Knicks lack of defense all year that begs to differ with you.

D'Antoni is a one trick pony.

We are in bottom third in points per possession and have a point differential of .4 at ~106ppg. That is horrible. Just horrendous.

Hopefully our defensive effort is consistent from hereon out, but it was one game. We'll see how they continue to play.

Even with a defensive center, I don't think we are in the hunt for a ring. This team still needs a lot of work. I think we made huge, significant steps towards it, but we still have some work to do.

I think next year with a proper center, and some more depth in the back-up front court spots and a pure point guard, we are a contender.

We are missing pieces, though:
  1. A starting center
  2. A back-up center
  3. A viable sixth-man (I like TD, and maybe he can become it, but he's not consistent enough at the moment)
  4. A back-up pure point guard.
1) Billups/????Missing back up PG/Toney
2) Landry/Bill Walker/Toney
3) Melo/Shawne Williams/Bill Walker
4) Amar'e/Jared Jeffries/Ronny Turiaf/Shawne Williams
5) ?????/???????/Ronny Turiaf

I would prefer a combo 2/3 six man. Love TD, and hope he really learns a lot form Billups, but he is too small to play 2 guard.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Don't you know this is the latest made up BS by people who despise D'ant? They fully expect the Knicks to play better ball now that we have our own version of a "Big Three" and they want to preempt any credit D'ant may get. Now it's that D'ant is a "figurehead" with no power and it's really Billiups and Melo running the show...

But they are running the show. Why do you think we have been stressing the need to improve defensively? Why do you think our new leaders went out of their way in every interview to mention what they feel we need? Because they're letting everyone know from fans to D'antoni to Walsh they know what's needed and where the weak points are.

It really is a win-win. You get to keep your coach, we get to root for players who have enough clout to circumvent D'Antoni's limitations. Perfect.

With every new signing (especially stars) we effectively reduce D'Antoni's negative impact. Lovely. Its not that players will make D'Antoni better, its the players that will overcome this coaches limitations.

Teaching and preaching are different.
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player

MusketeerX

Rotation player
But they are running the show. Why do you think we have been stressing the need to improve defensively? Why do you think our new leaders went out of their way in every interview to mention what they feel we need? Because they're letting everyone know from fans to D'antoni to Walsh they know what's needed and where the weak points are.

It really is a win-win. You get to keep your coach, we get to root for players who have enough clout to circumvent D'Antoni's limitations. Perfect.

With every new signing (especially stars) we effectively reduce D'Antoni's negative impact. Lovely. Its not that players will make D'Antoni better, its the players that will overcome this coaches limitations.

Teaching and preaching are different.

Well said.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
But they are running the show. Why do you think we have been stressing the need to improve defensively? Why do you think our new leaders went out of their way in every interview to mention what they feel we need? Because they're letting everyone know from fans to D'antoni to Walsh they know what's needed and where the weak points are.

It really is a win-win. You get to keep your coach, we get to root for players who have enough clout to circumvent D'Antoni's limitations. Perfect.

With every new signing (especially stars) we effectively reduce D'Antoni's negative impact. Lovely. Its not that players will make D'Antoni better, its the players that will overcome this coaches limitations.

Teaching and preaching are different.

D'ant has been stressing defense all year. You know this because I have pointed it out. You even went so far as to make a distinction between preaching and coaching defense as if that distinction isn't obvious. I countered with articles, videos and quotes showing how D'ant coached, not just preached defense. Now you want to pretend that he just started stressing defense...it's absurd! Further, not a single credible source is suggesting that Melo and Billiups are somehow running the show. The only story close to that is regarding the need to slow down the offense because both Melo and Billiups are better in a halfcourt offense. So D'ant adapts and is attacked as a figurehead and had he acted "stubborn" you would attack him for not being able to adapt! Damned if he does, damned if doesn't.

See your problem is two fold:

1. You have formed an opinion on our coach during a rebuilding process and have not updated your thinking as new information becomes available. You look at every action or decision made through those tainted glasses. If we lose it's D'ants fault if we win it's the players fault! :barf:

2. You listen to the national media and their historic bias against the Knicks and pick out what you agree with as truth. You discount their assertions on Amare being a "Robin" and not a Batman but run with the D'ant hate. You discount all the hate thrown at the Knicks by the national media unless it suites your own bias and agenda.

BTW, you called the season over when we were 3-5 so D'ant having us in the 6th seed with a winning record should have made you happy but of course you moved the goal post in order to retain your bias. It's so obvious...
 

JujuXG

Benchwarmer
Agree, Da is proven he can't win a ring in the nba. The best he can do is lead a team to the player off. Fire him.


Defense win Championship.
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
D'ant has been stressing defense all year. You know this because I have pointed it out. You even went so far as to make a distinction between preaching and coaching defense as if that distinction isn't obvious. I countered with articles, videos and quotes showing how D'ant coached, not just preached defense. Now you want to pretend that he just started stressing defense...it's absurd! Further, not a single credible source is suggesting that Melo and Billiups are somehow running the show. The only story close to that is regarding the need to slow down the offense because both Melo and Billiups are better in a halfcourt offense. So D'ant adapts and is attacked as a figurehead and had he acted "stubborn" you would attack him for not being able to adapt! Damned if he does, damned if doesn't.

See your problem is two fold:

1. You have formed an opinion on our coach during a rebuilding process and have not updated your thinking as new information becomes available. You look at every action or decision made through those tainted glasses. If we lose it's D'ants fault if we win it's the players fault! :barf:

2. You listen to the national media and their historic bias against the Knicks and pick out what you agree with as truth. You discount their assertions on Amare being a "Robin" and not a Batman but run with the D'ant hate. You discount all the hate thrown at the Knicks by the national media unless it suites your own bias and agenda.

BTW, you called the season over when we were 3-5 so D'ant having us in the 6th seed with a winning record should have made you happy but of course you moved the goal post in order to retain your bias. It's so obvious...

You believing it and actually be true are two different things. The article is to show that others are thinking the exact same thing we have pointed out to you. Oh, and D'Antoni's intentions have been to play the fast paced offense all along. He has also said this. Billups in 2 of the 3 games has refused to do it.

I would imagine that he is fired next year, no matter what. The players are going to demand a better all-around coach.

We know you like D'Antoni, but the evidence is as clear as day that he doesn't care one iota about defense.
 

The Garden '95

Benchwarmer
you guys gotta remember that toni's dad invented the system and used it to great success in high school so maybe he just really wants to prove his dad was right or he wants to be like his dad? because by now toni knows his teams have always been bad defensively and im sorry but any coach would have adjusted by now and i think dantoni just wants to prove that OFFENSE wins championships.
 

moneyg

Starter
D'ant has been stressing defense all year. You know this because I have pointed it out. You even went so far as to make a distinction between preaching and coaching defense as if that distinction isn't obvious. I countered with articles, videos and quotes showing how D'ant coached, not just preached defense. Now you want to pretend that he just started stressing defense...it's absurd! Further, not a single credible source is suggesting that Melo and Billiups are somehow running the show. The only story close to that is regarding the need to slow down the offense because both Melo and Billiups are better in a halfcourt offense. So D'ant adapts and is attacked as a figurehead and had he acted "stubborn" you would attack him for not being able to adapt! Damned if he does, damned if doesn't.

See your problem is two fold:

1. You have formed an opinion on our coach during a rebuilding process and have not updated your thinking as new information becomes available. You look at every action or decision made through those tainted glasses. If we lose it's D'ants fault if we win it's the players fault! :barf:

2. You listen to the national media and their historic bias against the Knicks and pick out what you agree with as truth. You discount their assertions on Amare being a "Robin" and not a Batman but run with the D'ant hate. You discount all the hate thrown at the Knicks by the national media unless it suites your own bias and agenda.

BTW, you called the season over when we were 3-5 so D'ant having us in the 6th seed with a winning record should have made you happy but of course you moved the goal post in order to retain your bias. It's so obvious...

hey trill.. so r u saying that this is the first year o'antoni has preached defense????.. or he has been preaching it all alone????...

its amazing how he decides to preach defense when amare arrives..

all the players laugh when asked if O'antoni preaches defense...

since you have never played for him.. i'd believe the player that have...

GOODBYE
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
hey trill.. so r u saying that this is the first year o'antoni has preached defense????.. or he has been preaching it all alone????...

its amazing how he decides to preach defense when amare arrives..

all the players laugh when asked if O'antoni preaches defense...

since you have never played for him.. i'd believe the player that have...

GOODBYE

No. Again, the last two years were not about winning, they were about shedding cap. The Suns were a decent but not great defensive team but had the most explosive offense in the league. That lead to back to back 60+ win seasons, 2 WC finals appearances and going up on the Spurs 2-1 before Amare and Diaw were suspended. The Suns had worse rap then they deserve when it comes to defense because people simply concluded they played poor defense because of the PPG. You do not win 50+ each season including back to back 60+ wins, make it to WC finals in the toughest divison by not playing or stressing defense!

This year we had our best defenders injured, 14 million in salary cap wasted on Curry and only one star yet are the 6th seed. Simply put, we overachieved beyond most peoples predictions given our talent. D'ant maximized Felton and turned him into a borderline star which directly lead to our current record. Now we have more star power although not a complete roster just yet. We do have a better rebounding team as both Billiups and Melo are upgrades over Gallo and Felton. Further, Turiaf is a better rebounder than Moz and now will have increased minutes post trade. (if he stays healthy)

As to you repeating this point about what Amre said...meh. Amare was young and deflecting responsibility, looking to pawn off his own weakness on a coach he had a falling out with. Amare has since grown up, apologized and in case you didn't notice was all to happy to come play for D'ant again.

P.S.

Again:

the only Knicks starter who was on the court purely for his defense. Coach Mike D?Antoni loved Jeffries? length and his versatility ? he could guard all five positions and switch on every pick-and-roll.

Jeffries, in fact, presents a strong counter-argument to those who contend that D?Antoni cares only about offense. Jeffries was easily the Knicks? least skilled offensive player. Yet he started 37 of 52 games this season and was sixth in minutes per game (28.1). He led the Knicks in charges drawn.

On Sunday, Jeffries also used his defensive skills to offer a spirited defense of his supposedly offense-obsessed former coach. D?Antoni, he said, is simply using the tools he has.

?I think that Mike?s a realist,?? Jeffries said. ?Defending, like anything else in the NBA, is a talent level. And you can?t have people that are not great defenders and expect them to be great defenders. Just like you can?t have people that aren?t great scorers and expect them to be great scorers. He put me out there to be a defender and he puts guys out there to be scorers. He does focus on defense, but if you don?t have defensive players, then you?re not going to be a great defensive team.??

He added, ?It?s not like he tells the guys, ?Don?t go out there and guard anybody, just try to score.? That?s not the case at all.?
?

Thatwas said in March of last year AFTER JJ was already gone and no longer being coached by D'ant.

But but but!!! D'ant only started caring about defense after Melo and Billiups came so it's clear that JJ was put into the lineup for his tremendous offensive ability!!! AMIRITE? :teeth:
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
No. Again, the last two years were not about winning, they were about shedding cap. The Suns were a decent but not great defensive team but had the most explosive offense in the league. That lead to back to back 60+ win seasons, 2 WC finals appearances and going up on the Spurs 2-1 before Amare and Diaw were suspended. The Suns had worse rap then they deserve when it comes to defense because people simply concluded they played poor defense because of the PPG. You do not win 50+ each season including back to back 60+ wins, make it to WC finals in the toughest divison by not playing or stressing defense!

This year we had our best defenders injured, 14 million in salary cap wasted on Curry and only one star yet are the 6th seed. Simply put, we overachieved beyond most peoples predictions given our talent. D'ant maximized Felton and turned him into a borderline star which directly lead to our current record. Now we have more star power although not a complete roster just yet. We do have a better rebounding team as both Billiups and Melo are upgrades over Gallo and Felton. Further, Turiaf is a better rebounder than Moz and now will have increased minutes post trade. (if he stays healthy)

As to you repeating this point about what Amre said...meh. Amare was young and deflecting responsibility, looking to pawn off his own weakness on a coach he had a falling out with. Amare has since grown up, apologized and in case you didn't notice was all to happy to come play for D'ant again.

P.S.

Again:



Thatwas said in March of last year AFTER JJ was already gone and no longer being coached by D'ant.

But but but!!! D'ant only started caring about defense after Melo and Billiups came so it's clear that JJ was put into the lineup for his tremendous offensive ability!!! AMIRITE? :teeth:

D'Antoni has never cared about defense. Jeffries was only played out of necessity. Jeffries better be saying those things if he wants to keep playing...

The thing about Amar'e saying those things... it wasn't just him. It was the whole Phoenix front-office. It was the entire Phoenix fan base who celebrated when he left.

I can't see how you can believe he cares about defense when you see our defensive stats, hear everything professional NBA analysts say about him, and listen to players scream about his lack of Defensive mindset.

I'm trying to find the article, but I read a story way back when about how Wade said D'Antoni didn't care about defense during the Olympics, either.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Mike D?Antoni called Amare Stoudemire minutes into the new free agent period this week and said it was time for them to bury the hatchet, because they wanted him in New York.

Is there a better place to bury the hatchet than brunch?

No, no there is not. An omelet bar and lukewarm eggs benedict is the perfect makeup meal.

Stoudemire and D?Antoni did not part on good terms from Phoenix. But now, a few years later both have matured. And both need each other. Amare has wanted to be out in front, now he will be. D?Antoni gets an All-Star perfectly suited to run his offense.

So the hatchet was buried. Tomorrow the deal should be finalized, and Stoudemire will be the Knicks big free agent signing. With all that comes with that.

Now Stoudemire and D?Antoni need to team up to recruit more elite player to run with them. Or things will get ugly fast. Uglier than a lukewarm eggs benedict.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....udemire-mike-dantoni-have-brunch-and-make-up/

See, Amare and D'ant had a falling out. For you to believe that Amre didn't learn defense is just absurd. What he stated goes beyond hyperbole and into the surreal.

BTW, why din't the Suns under Porter or Gentry ever become elite defensive teams? Why were they not able to come close to the success D'ant had with the same squad? Hmmmmmmmm.....
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
D'Antoni has never cared about defense. Jeffries was only played out of necessity. Jeffries better be saying those things if he wants to keep playing...

The thing about Amar'e saying those things... it wasn't just him. It was the whole Phoenix front-office. It was the entire Phoenix fan base who celebrated when he left.

I can't see how you can believe he cares about defense when you see our defensive stats, hear everything professional NBA analysts say about him, and listen to players scream about his lack of Defensive mindset.

I'm trying to find the article, but I read a story way back when about how Wade said D'Antoni didn't care about defense during the Olympics, either.


Round and round regradless of fact. Now Jeffries is lying to keep playing on a team he was just traded from...:thumbsup:

Necessity? Yes, defensive necessity guy...

P.S. There is a huge difference from not being a defensive minded coach and being a coach as you suggest that doesn't care about defense. Those fans in Phoenix celebrated as much as Knick fans celebrated Riley leaving. Disgruntled, scorn and looking for a scapegoat. They got what they wished for... mediocrity under two other coaches and not even sniffing a Finals appearance. If I was a Suns fan I would be grateful for a coach who turned that franchise around and brought them into credible title contention. He did not win a chip but was certainly capable of doing so. What has Phoenix done since he left?
 
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MusketeerX

Rotation player
Round and round regradless of fact. Now Jeffries is lying to keep playing on a team he was just traded from...:thumbsup:

Necessity? Yes, defensive necessity guy...

Necessity of having no size...

As Berman mentions, the younger D'Antoni famously balked at the hiring of a defensive specialist in Phoenix, so "appointing" that "position" from within (the organization and the family) seems like a decent compromise.

Doesn't care.
 

knicksin60

Starter
This thread has already been reported to the MDPD (Mike D'antoni Police Department).

People can't just come into a forum in where a coach or player is very popular in and create threads bashing that coach or player.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
This thread has already been reported to the MDPD (Mike D'antoni Police Department).

People can't just come into a forum in where a coach or player is very popular in and create threads bashing that coach or player.

This post has been reported to the Irrelevant Off Topic Not Furthering the Debate Police...
 
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