I'm beating a dead horse but Mike D is probably the problem
- Thread starter Deathstroke
- Start date
TR1LL10N
Hannibal Lecter
knicksman20
Benchwarmer
I agree! I also think alot has to do with Billups (not Antoni) being the floor general. Billups brings that old school PG mentality & is a good defender at the PG. He's smart & knows what to do most times at crucial points in the game. He's gonna be a helluva coach one day & he's the team's coach out on that floor.
Clearly that is the case on this board.
Red
TYPE-A
I have to give props to everyone including MDA for a win or loss, because its a team effort. That said, I agree I hold out hope that MDA can adapt, but what I didn't really expect was that these new vets came to play regardless of MDA 's system. That's a blessing and underscores his value or lack there of. A coach is most valuable to teaching (not preaching) young players. Vets don't need that. They've been coached up already. So it works out. Mda system is his system, how its viewed and implemented is now up t our big three.
Listen, you're a schmuck. If you can't understand that every coach has defensive system as does MDA, f*ck you, go read a book. His system on defense is remedial at best, and everyone knows this.
But with stars who actually have bb iq something everyone clammored that Gallo had, they limit mistakes on both ends, and limit the ancillary limatating affects of ssol.
But the fact remains MDA has a lot to be desired, and hopefully this is his lesson.
Don't sell me your garbage. I know basketball, and an argumentative broad when I see it.
You f*cking spin doctor, trying to give MDA credit after two maxs arrived. N*gga please. Save that sh*t.
F*cking pathetic and predictable. Gtfoh you pee-on.
Like my eyes and bb iq were lying after we saw years and years of ineptitude. Reminds me of your posts.
1st of all.. wow.. this was one game
2nd.... The entire league know O'antoni doesnt preach defense as much as he should...show me one person is basketball that can tell us thet mike does a good job teachin defense.. just one person..
3rd...the player brought it.. billups is the real leader...greatdefensive coaches can do it without the player by implementing a system that fits the player
4th...mike cant make good adjustments on the defensive end
5th.. dont you think that because everybody talkin about our coach's lack of a defensive strategy.. is the only reason why he is bringing it up so much now.. what happen to the D in the past??
just point out one person/former player/current player that has been around O'antoni that actually gives him credit for his defense..just one
Every argument that I see here against MDA getting as much credit for yesterday has been, basically:
We got Billups, a better defensive player and leader, that is why we are playing better defense - the players.
People who were defending MDA said, before we got Billups:
We do not have the right personnel and talent to play defense right now, which explains why our defense is so bad - the players.
What is the difference between those two arguments?
We got Billups, a better defensive player and leader, that is why we are playing better defense - the players.
People who were defending MDA said, before we got Billups:
We do not have the right personnel and talent to play defense right now, which explains why our defense is so bad - the players.
What is the difference between those two arguments?
TR1LL10N
Hannibal Lecter
^^Perfect example of one of your emotional outbursts...
It's peon not pee-on, just like you're a moron and not a more-on. :teeth: Well, I do piss on your points so maybe that's what you meant?
Right, every coach has a defensive system but it takes players who can commit to defense in order for a team to be good defensively.
-Chauncey Billiups
MusketeerX
Rotation player
I agree with Red in that the defensive tenacity since the trade seems to be more of a renewed effort from the players than D'Antoni.
Billups said after the game last night (I'm paraphrasing): "We know we can win games by scoring 108 pts, but to win games with 91 pts... we need to learn how to do that.
For me that was a clear statement that Billups is not going to buy into D'Antoni's offensive philosophy -- too old and too set in his ways. Chauncey may be the best thing to happen to NY in a LONG time.
We've seen three games thus far. One of those was using the "more possessions = more wins" philosophy and we lost one of those games. I will let you guess which one we lost.
With that said, I will give credit to D'Antoni for having a practice on Saturday dedicated to defense. It paid off. He should have been having practices like that a long time ago.
Billups said after the game last night (I'm paraphrasing): "We know we can win games by scoring 108 pts, but to win games with 91 pts... we need to learn how to do that.
For me that was a clear statement that Billups is not going to buy into D'Antoni's offensive philosophy -- too old and too set in his ways. Chauncey may be the best thing to happen to NY in a LONG time.
We've seen three games thus far. One of those was using the "more possessions = more wins" philosophy and we lost one of those games. I will let you guess which one we lost.
With that said, I will give credit to D'Antoni for having a practice on Saturday dedicated to defense. It paid off. He should have been having practices like that a long time ago.
Christ -
So it was the PLAYERS. Which is what everyone has said all along. The coaching is always always always overvalued in comparison to players, which is what I, Trillion and others have been saying for the past 3 years on this board.
Surprise - when a PLAYER comes in with defensive tenacity, skills and mindset, we play better defense because ULTIMATELY the players on the floor play the D.
TR1LL10N
Hannibal Lecter
First of all..wow, I was not drawing any grand conclusions but rather responding to one. My point was about Red's blatant hypocrisy and logical inconsistency. Simmer down and learn the meaning of context.
Okay:
What happened to it being one game? BTW, did we not play good defense in several games this year including the last game against the Hawks?
Really? Didn't he ADJUST his rotation to include Carter and Balkman for defensive purposes?
I think he wants to win and will ADJUST where he sees fit. He knows that our offense will be fine with Melo, Amare and Billiups anchoring it so that affords him the luxury to concentrate MORE on the defensive end.
so you agree its only recently that he is now focusing on defense more
id expect JJ to take his back....amare.. who doesnt need anthong form O'antoni.. called him out for not teaching defense.. who do you believe????
but a good coach would get something out of his players on d.. see Tom tibs...bozer got better.. rose got better...etc
see doc rivers.. pirece got better.. ray allen got better...etc
when mike took over..we had better defensive players than we have now.. he wanted scores..so thats what we got...
TR1LL10N
Hannibal Lecter
1. You asked for one, I provided one and you deflect. Funny how that works!:thumbsup:
2. Jeffries stated that comment last year not now in the hopes of making a return.
3. Amare made his comment in the guise of being attacked for his defense. Do you actually believe he was not taught ANY defense as he stated? He also happily reunited with D'antoni after making those comments and admitted that he grew up. BTW, why didn't the Suns play good defense with Porter or Gentry?
4. Dude, Rose and Boozer are good defenders so yes Thib is maximizing their skill sets. I do not count the first two years D'ant was coach as we had major trades and were in a cap shedding mode where salary was more important then talent. Going off this year, our teams two best defenders, Turiaf and Azubukie were injured. D'ant plays Turiaf for the sole purpose of defense when ever he is healthy. Further, now we have Billiups who is a good defender leading by example. It's really common sense, the Knicks have such firepower that concentrating on defense post trade is obvious especially with the addition of DEFENDERS.
5. Size cannot be overcome with coaching therefore our struggles in rebounding magnified our weak defense because it gave the opponents more shot attempts. This trade actually made our roster better at rebounding even though we lost height. Melo is an upgrade over Gallo in rebounding. Billiups is a a 6'3" PG who rebounds and defends better than Felton. Turiaf is now starting or getting more minutes and is a better rebounder than Moz.
So in conclusion, as I have stated since day one, defense has more to do with personnel then coaching and Billiups and Jeferies agree. Further, the improvements in our roster with regards to rebounding should limit the oppositions shot attempts making our defense even more effective post trade.
MusketeerX
Rotation player
You didn't quote in your last post where I said give D'Antoni credit for having a pure defensive practice. I have a feeling though that he had that practice because the players wanted to learn how to properly defend as a team.
There is a difference between individual defense and team defense. The players are now trying the former, but the latter was always up to D'Antoni, which he failed at miserably.
boozer is one if the worst defensive PF in the league.....
its funny you could only find one......99% of the leauge agree with me...
JJ agrees with you..SMH
In fairness...you asked for one, and that's what he gave you.
TR1LL10N
Hannibal Lecter
No Boozer is not one of the worst defenders. Further he is a great rebounder which is a DEFENSIVE stat. You asked for ONE, I provided one and you move the goal post. SMH indeed...
P.S. I guess your failure to address all my other points is an admission that you have no response.
Toons
is the Bo$$
im just gonna go on record to say that it was the players all along and the lack of defensive talent. Its only so much a coach can say to you to motivate you enough to go an give it 100% all the time. There are the people that say Mike D will never win a championship with his offense.....Then there are those that say, With the right people, i can see this system winning it all. I am of the latter....i feel that with a defensive centre, we are a complete team.
Toons
is the Bo$$
im just gonna go on record to say that it was the players all along and the lack of defensive talent. Its only so much a coach can say to you to motivate you enough to go an give it 100% all the time. There are the people that say Mike D will never win a championship with his offense.....Then there are those that say, With the right people, i can see this system winning it all. I am of the latter....i feel that with a defensive centre, we are a complete team.
hometheaterguy
Knicks Guru
Blah, blah, blah..... You are beating a dead horse and for all the posters that want to fire D'Antoni... OK, who's available now or at during the off season that you would hire as the Knicks coach? Only 1 guy available that I would even think about and that is Jerry Sloan and not sure if he's a big city guy.... Most likely to do the commentator thing for a season or so to recharge before he goes back to coaching... So, Sloan aside, who's the replacement that will take the Knicks to the promised land????