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Thread: I'm beating a dead horse but Mike D is probably the problem

  1. #16
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WrongIslander
    So we hold the Heat to 86, we do it playing D with everyone helping. We do it with a defensive stop to win the game and MDA deserves no credit.

    You people make me sick.

    "We won in spite of him."

    3 games he's had this team and our defense in that time has improved no end.

    I don't care who it is doing it, it's plain to see and since it was MDA getting all the stick it should be him getting the credit.

    You'd written the game off before the half most of you.

    Seriously give it up, it's like you want the guy to fail, you've become accustomed to your misery so now that good things are happening you're desperately looking from the scapegoat of yesteryear.

    You don't beat the heat in their own backyard holding them to 86 if your coach isn't doing his job. Sorry, you just don't.

    Give the man his due.
    Dude its one game and MDA was a big part of it. BUT, you do realize we just gave up the house on defense to CLEVELAND?

    Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Hopefully MDA can have this team more focused on defense than he has in the past.

  2. #17
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    Dude its one game and MDA was a big part of it. BUT, you do realize we just gave up the house on defense to CLEVELAND?

    Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Hopefully MDA can have this team more focused on defense than he has in the past.

    If you haven't noticed...

    The stars run this ship now. MDA is a figurehead. These vets have taken it upon themselves to implement what they're comfortable with, o both sides.

    Just sit back Mike, we got this. And just in case, for all those who want MDA to take credit for an improvement defensively, don't even try it. He could've proven his defensive accumen when he had rookies and newbies that needed coaching. He failed.

    Now the students will have to show the teacher.

  3. #18
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    If you haven't noticed...

    The stars run this ship now. MDA is a figurehead. These vets have taken it upon themselves to implement what they're comfortable with, o both sides.

    Just sit back Mike, we got this. And just in case, for all those who want MDA to take credit for an improvement defensively, don't even try it. He could've proven his defensive accumen when he had rookies and newbies that needed coaching. He failed.

    Now the students will have to show the teacher.
    You probably have a point there. I've never heard defense talked as much as we do now. Melo, STAT and Billups have been talking defense more in the past week than we've heard in three years with MDA. Heck, last week someone asked him about his defense against Cleveland and he reverted back to his offensive philosophy.

    But. Red if this cat is open to change, truly open you gotta give him some props. If he realizes that playing defense isnt just a passing fancy, with the offense he runs we'll be a VERY HARD OUT come the playoffs.

  4. #19
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    Originally Posted by Red
    If you haven't noticed...

    The stars run this ship now. MDA is a figurehead. These vets have taken it upon themselves to implement what they're comfortable with, o both sides.

    Just sit back Mike, we got this. And just in case, for all those who want MDA to take credit for an improvement defensively, don't even try it. He could've proven his defensive accumen when he had rookies and newbies that needed coaching. He failed.

    Now the students will have to show the teacher.
    So you spent the last 3 years blaming D'ant for our lack of defense while I and others said it had more to do with the roster then coach. You adamantly disagreed furthering your emotional outbursts that D'ant can't and doesn't teach defense. I and others provided quotes, videos and articles that clearly show what is so obvious...that an NBA coach with a winning record and COY award understands and does coach defense but you chose to ignore each bit of proof every step of the way. Now that we have NEW PLAYERS and played great defense you take the exact polar opposite opinion and CREDIT the PLAYERS for defense! So which is it guy? Has it been the players all along failing at defense or not? Can't have it both ways.

    P.S.

    Knicks had 40 mins of film and 90 mins of practice here in Miami. Spent a lot of time on, of course, defensive concepts.
    ^^Could that be a reason for the improved defense in addition to players committed to defending?

  5. #20
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    BTW,

    Renaldo Balkman
    Anthony Carter
    Ronny Turiaf
    Sheldon Williams

    All played for DEFENSIVE purposes. Yet another fallacy proven wrong...

  6. #21
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    Pshh... being reasonable will get you nowhere Trill

    Players deserve the credit for every good thing.

    Dantoni deserves to be mocked and blamed for every bad thing.

    It's that simple right?

  7. #22
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    Originally Posted by iJoe
    Pshh... being reasonable will get you nowhere Trill

    Players deserve the credit for every good thing.

    Dantoni deserves to be mocked and blamed for every bad thing.

    It's that simple right?
    Apparently so...

  8. #23
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    If you haven't noticed...

    The stars run this ship now. MDA is a figurehead. These vets have taken it upon themselves to implement what they're comfortable with, o both sides.

    Just sit back Mike, we got this. And just in case, for all those who want MDA to take credit for an improvement defensively, don't even try it. He could've proven his defensive accumen when he had rookies and newbies that needed coaching. He failed.

    Now the students will have to show the teacher.
    I agree! I also think alot has to do with Billups (not Antoni) being the floor general. Billups brings that old school PG mentality & is a good defender at the PG. He's smart & knows what to do most times at crucial points in the game. He's gonna be a helluva coach one day & he's the team's coach out on that floor.

  9. #24
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    Originally Posted by iJoe
    Pshh... being reasonable will get you nowhere Trill

    Players deserve the credit for every good thing.

    Dantoni deserves to be mocked and blamed for every bad thing.

    It's that simple right?
    Clearly that is the case on this board.

  10. #25
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    You probably have a point there. I've never heard defense talked as much as we do now. Melo, STAT and Billups have been talking defense more in the past week than we've heard in three years with MDA. Heck, last week someone asked him about his defense against Cleveland and he reverted back to his offensive philosophy.

    But. Red if this cat is open to change, truly open you gotta give him some props. If he realizes that playing defense isnt just a passing fancy, with the offense he runs we'll be a VERY HARD OUT come the playoffs.
    I have to give props to everyone including MDA for a win or loss, because its a team effort. That said, I agree I hold out hope that MDA can adapt, but what I didn't really expect was that these new vets came to play regardless of MDA 's system. That's a blessing and underscores his value or lack there of. A coach is most valuable to teaching (not preaching) young players. Vets don't need that. They've been coached up already. So it works out. Mda system is his system, how its viewed and implemented is now up t our big three.

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    So you spent the last 3 years blaming D'ant for our lack of defense while I and others said it had more to do with the roster then coach. You adamantly disagreed furthering your emotional outbursts that D'ant can't and doesn't teach defense. I and others provided quotes, videos and articles that clearly show what is so obvious...that an NBA coach with a winning record and COY award understands and does coach defense but you chose to ignore each bit of proof every step of the way. Now that we have NEW PLAYERS and played great defense you take the exact polar opposite opinion and CREDIT the PLAYERS for defense! So which is it guy? Has it been the players all along failing at defense or not? Can't have it both ways.

    P.S.



    ^^Could that be a reason for the improved defense in addition to players committed to defending?
    Listen, you're a schmuck. If you can't understand that every coach has defensive system as does MDA, f*ck you, go read a book. His system on defense is remedial at best, and everyone knows this.

    But with stars who actually have bb iq something everyone clammored that Gallo had, they limit mistakes on both ends, and limit the ancillary limatating affects of ssol.

    But the fact remains MDA has a lot to be desired, and hopefully this is his lesson.

    Don't sell me your garbage. I know basketball, and an argumentative broad when I see it.

    You f*cking spin doctor, trying to give MDA credit after two maxs arrived. N*gga please. Save that sh*t.

    F*cking pathetic and predictable. Gtfoh you pee-on.

    Like my eyes and bb iq were lying after we saw years and years of ineptitude. Reminds me of your posts.

  11. #26
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    So you spent the last 3 years blaming D'ant for our lack of defense while I and others said it had more to do with the roster then coach. You adamantly disagreed furthering your emotional outbursts that D'ant can't and doesn't teach defense. I and others provided quotes, videos and articles that clearly show what is so obvious...that an NBA coach with a winning record and COY award understands and does coach defense but you chose to ignore each bit of proof every step of the way. Now that we have NEW PLAYERS and played great defense you take the exact polar opposite opinion and CREDIT the PLAYERS for defense! So which is it guy? Has it been the players all along failing at defense or not? Can't have it both ways.

    P.S.



    ^^Could that be a reason for the improved defense in addition to players committed to defending?
    1st of all.. wow.. this was one game

    2nd.... The entire league know O'antoni doesnt preach defense as much as he should...show me one person is basketball that can tell us thet mike does a good job teachin defense.. just one person..

    3rd...the player brought it.. billups is the real leader...greatdefensive coaches can do it without the player by implementing a system that fits the player

    4th...mike cant make good adjustments on the defensive end

    5th.. dont you think that because everybody talkin about our coach's lack of a defensive strategy.. is the only reason why he is bringing it up so much now.. what happen to the D in the past??

    just point out one person/former player/current player that has been around O'antoni that actually gives him credit for his defense..just one

  12. #27
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Every argument that I see here against MDA getting as much credit for yesterday has been, basically:

    We got Billups, a better defensive player and leader, that is why we are playing better defense - the players.

    People who were defending MDA said, before we got Billups:

    We do not have the right personnel and talent to play defense right now, which explains why our defense is so bad - the players.

    What is the difference between those two arguments?

  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by Red
    I have to give props to everyone including MDA for a win or loss, because its a team effort. That said, I agree I hold out hope that MDA can adapt, but what I didn't really expect was that these new vets came to play regardless of MDA 's system. That's a blessing and underscores his value or lack there of. A coach is most valuable to teaching (not preaching) young players. Vets don't need that. They've been coached up already. So it works out. Mda system is his system, how its viewed and implemented is now up t our big three.



    Listen, you're a schmuck. If you can't understand that every coach has defensive system as does MDA, f*ck you, go read a book. His system on defense is remedial at best, and everyone knows this.

    But with stars who actually have bb iq something everyone clammored that Gallo had, they limit mistakes on both ends, and limit the ancillary limatating affects of ssol.

    But the fact remains MDA has a lot to be desired, and hopefully this is his lesson.

    Don't sell me your garbage. I know basketball, and an argumentative broad when I see it.

    You f*cking spin doctor, trying to give MDA credit after two maxs arrived. N*gga please. Save that sh*t.

    F*cking pathetic and predictable. Gtfoh you pee-on.

    Like my eyes and bb iq were lying after we saw years and years of ineptitude. Reminds me of your posts.

    ^^Perfect example of one of your emotional outbursts...

    It's peon not pee-on, just like you're a moron and not a more-on. Well, I do piss on your points so maybe that's what you meant?

    Right, every coach has a defensive system but it takes players who can commit to defense in order for a team to be good defensively.

    Most of defense is just effort...and being willing to do it
    -Chauncey Billiups

  14. #29
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    I agree with Red in that the defensive tenacity since the trade seems to be more of a renewed effort from the players than D'Antoni.

    Billups said after the game last night (I'm paraphrasing): "We know we can win games by scoring 108 pts, but to win games with 91 pts... we need to learn how to do that.

    For me that was a clear statement that Billups is not going to buy into D'Antoni's offensive philosophy -- too old and too set in his ways. Chauncey may be the best thing to happen to NY in a LONG time.

    We've seen three games thus far. One of those was using the "more possessions = more wins" philosophy and we lost one of those games. I will let you guess which one we lost.

    With that said, I will give credit to D'Antoni for having a practice on Saturday dedicated to defense. It paid off. He should have been having practices like that a long time ago.

  15. #30
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    I agree with Red in that the defensive tenacity since the trade seems to be from a more renewed effort from the players than D'Antoni.

    Billups said after the game last night (I'm paraphrasing): "We know we can win games by scoring 108 pts, but to win games with 91 pts... we need to learn how to do that.

    That was a clear statement by me that Billups is not going to buy into D'Antoni's offensive philosophy -- too old and too set in his ways. Chauncey may be the best thing to happen to NY in a LONG time.
    .
    Christ -

    So it was the PLAYERS. Which is what everyone has said all along. The coaching is always always always overvalued in comparison to players, which is what I, Trillion and others have been saying for the past 3 years on this board.

    Surprise - when a PLAYER comes in with defensive tenacity, skills and mindset, we play better defense because ULTIMATELY the players on the floor play the D.

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