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Thread: I'm beating a dead horse but Mike D is probably the problem

  1. #31
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    1st of all.. wow.. this was one game
    First of all..wow, I was not drawing any grand conclusions but rather responding to one. My point was about Red's blatant hypocrisy and logical inconsistency. Simmer down and learn the meaning of context.

    2nd.... The entire league know O'antoni doesnt preach defense as much as he should...show me one person is basketball that can tell us thet mike does a good job teachin defense.. just one person..
    Okay:

    “I think that Mike’s a realist,’’ Jeffries said. “Defending, like anything else in the NBA, is a talent level. And you can’t have people that are not great defenders and expect them to be great defenders. Just like you can’t have people that aren’t great scorers and expect them to be great scorers. He put me out there to be a defender and he puts guys out there to be scorers. He does focus on defense, but if you don’t have defensive players, then you’re not going to be a great defensive team.’’

    He added, “It’s not like he tells the guys, ‘Don’t go out there and guard anybody, just try to score.’ That’s not the case at all.’’
    3rd...the player brought it.. billups is the real leader...greatdefensive coaches can do it without the player by implementing a system that fits the player
    What happened to it being one game? BTW, did we not play good defense in several games this year including the last game against the Hawks?

    4th...mike cant make good adjustments on the defensive end
    Really? Didn't he ADJUST his rotation to include Carter and Balkman for defensive purposes?

    5th.. dont you think that because everybody talkin about our coach's lack of a defensive strategy.. is the only reason why he is bringing it up so much now.. what happen to the D in the past??
    I think he wants to win and will ADJUST where he sees fit. He knows that our offense will be fine with Melo, Amare and Billiups anchoring it so that affords him the luxury to concentrate MORE on the defensive end.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    First of all..wow, I was not drawing any grand conclusions but rather responding to one. My point was about Red's blatant hypocrisy and logical inconsistency. Simmer down and learn the meaning of context.



    Okay:





    What happened to it being one game? BTW, did we not play good defense in several games this year including the last game against the Hawks?



    Really? Didn't he ADJUST his rotation to include Carter and Balkman for defensive purposes?



    I think he wants to win and will ADJUST where he sees fit. He knows that our offense will be fine with Melo, Amare and Billiups anchoring it so that affords him the luxury to concentrate MORE on the defensive end.
    so you agree its only recently that he is now focusing on defense more

    id expect JJ to take his back....amare.. who doesnt need anthong form O'antoni.. called him out for not teaching defense.. who do you believe????

    but a good coach would get something out of his players on d.. see Tom tibs...bozer got better.. rose got better...etc
    see doc rivers.. pirece got better.. ray allen got better...etc

    when mike took over..we had better defensive players than we have now.. he wanted scores..so thats what we got...

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    so you agree its only recently that he is now focusing on defense more

    id expect JJ to take his back....amare.. who doesnt need anthong form O'antoni.. called him out for not teaching defense.. who do you believe????

    but a good coach would get something out of his players on d.. see Tom tibs...bozer got better.. rose got better...etc
    see doc rivers.. pirece got better.. ray allen got better...etc

    when mike took over..we had better defensive players than we have now.. he wanted scores..so thats what we got...
    1. You asked for one, I provided one and you deflect. Funny how that works!

    2. Jeffries stated that comment last year not now in the hopes of making a return.

    3. Amare made his comment in the guise of being attacked for his defense. Do you actually believe he was not taught ANY defense as he stated? He also happily reunited with D'antoni after making those comments and admitted that he grew up. BTW, why didn't the Suns play good defense with Porter or Gentry?

    4. Dude, Rose and Boozer are good defenders so yes Thib is maximizing their skill sets. I do not count the first two years D'ant was coach as we had major trades and were in a cap shedding mode where salary was more important then talent. Going off this year, our teams two best defenders, Turiaf and Azubukie were injured. D'ant plays Turiaf for the sole purpose of defense when ever he is healthy. Further, now we have Billiups who is a good defender leading by example. It's really common sense, the Knicks have such firepower that concentrating on defense post trade is obvious especially with the addition of DEFENDERS.

    5. Size cannot be overcome with coaching therefore our struggles in rebounding magnified our weak defense because it gave the opponents more shot attempts. This trade actually made our roster better at rebounding even though we lost height. Melo is an upgrade over Gallo in rebounding. Billiups is a a 6'3" PG who rebounds and defends better than Felton. Turiaf is now starting or getting more minutes and is a better rebounder than Moz.

    So in conclusion, as I have stated since day one, defense has more to do with personnel then coaching and Billiups and Jeferies agree. Further, the improvements in our roster with regards to rebounding should limit the oppositions shot attempts making our defense even more effective post trade.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Christ -

    So it was the PLAYERS. Which is what everyone has said all along. The coaching is always always always overvalued in comparison to players, which is what I, Trillion and others have been saying for the past 3 years on this board.

    Surprise - when a PLAYER comes in with defensive tenacity, skills and mindset, we play better defense because ULTIMATELY the players on the floor play the D.
    You didn't quote in your last post where I said give D'Antoni credit for having a pure defensive practice. I have a feeling though that he had that practice because the players wanted to learn how to properly defend as a team.

    There is a difference between individual defense and team defense. The players are now trying the former, but the latter was always up to D'Antoni, which he failed at miserably.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    1. You asked for one, I provided one and you deflect. Funny how that works!

    2. Jeffries stated that comment last year not now in the hopes of making a return.

    3. Amare made his comment in the guise of being attacked for his defense. Do you actually believe he was not taught ANY defense as he stated? He also happily reunited with D'antoni after making those comments and admitted that he grew up. BTW, why didn't the Suns play good defense with Porter or Gentry?

    4. Dude, Rose and Boozer are good defenders so yes Thib is maximizing their skill sets. I do not count the first two years D'ant was coach as we had major trades and were in a cap shedding mode where salary was more important then talent. Going off this year, our teams two best defenders, Turiaf and Azubukie were injured. D'ant plays Turiaf for the sole purpose of defense when ever he is healthy. Further, now we have Billiups who is a good defender leading by example. It's really common sense, the Knicks have such firepower that concentrating on defense post trade is obvious especially with the addition of DEFENDERS.

    5. Size cannot be overcome with coaching therefore our struggles in rebounding magnified our weak defense because it gave the opponents more shot attempts. This trade actually made our roster better at rebounding even though we lost height. Melo is an upgrade over Gallo in rebounding. Billiups is a a 6'3" PG who rebounds and defends better than Felton. Turiaf is now starting or getting more minutes and is a better rebounder than Moz.

    So in conclusion, as I have stated since day one, defense has more to do with personnel then coaching and Billiups and Jeferies agree. Further, the improvements in our roster with regards to rebounding should limit the oppositions shot attempts making our defense even more effective post trade.

    boozer is one if the worst defensive PF in the league.....

    its funny you could only find one......99% of the leauge agree with me...

    JJ agrees with you..SMH

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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    boozer is one if the worst defensive PF in the league.....

    its funny you could only find one......99% of the leauge agree with me...

    JJ agrees with you..SMH
    In fairness...you asked for one, and that's what he gave you.

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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    boozer is one if the worst defensive PF in the league.....

    its funny you could only find one......99% of the leauge agree with me...

    JJ agrees with you..SMH
    No Boozer is not one of the worst defenders. Further he is a great rebounder which is a DEFENSIVE stat. You asked for ONE, I provided one and you move the goal post. SMH indeed...

    P.S. I guess your failure to address all my other points is an admission that you have no response.

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    im just gonna go on record to say that it was the players all along and the lack of defensive talent. Its only so much a coach can say to you to motivate you enough to go an give it 100% all the time. There are the people that say Mike D will never win a championship with his offense.....Then there are those that say, With the right people, i can see this system winning it all. I am of the latter....i feel that with a defensive centre, we are a complete team.

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    im just gonna go on record to say that it was the players all along and the lack of defensive talent. Its only so much a coach can say to you to motivate you enough to go an give it 100% all the time. There are the people that say Mike D will never win a championship with his offense.....Then there are those that say, With the right people, i can see this system winning it all. I am of the latter....i feel that with a defensive centre, we are a complete team.

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    Originally Posted by Deathstroke
    Don't really care about the Cavs loss, it was just one game but really I watched that Denver game and it looked like our guys were trying to play some D, I really think Pringles has to go I know it's a topic thats kind of taboo but if our guys want to get better on D then Dantoni has got to go
    Blah, blah, blah..... You are beating a dead horse and for all the posters that want to fire D'Antoni... OK, who's available now or at during the off season that you would hire as the Knicks coach? Only 1 guy available that I would even think about and that is Jerry Sloan and not sure if he's a big city guy.... Most likely to do the commentator thing for a season or so to recharge before he goes back to coaching... So, Sloan aside, who's the replacement that will take the Knicks to the promised land????

  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    In fairness...you asked for one, and that's what he gave you.
    ur right... im sure we can find one person that says the sky is purple.. doesnt mean it is true..

    id you to now...

    give me two more...

    i sure you will struggle

    oh yeah.. you cant name relatives

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    OK. Am I getting this right? We got cats on here that think MDA teaches and Preaches defense? I mean after years of it being obvious he doesnt, and after him basically saying the team that "SCORES THE MOST" plays the best defense. Do I have this right?

    WOW!

    Look fellas we can only HOPE that this cat sees the value in playing defense every game. We can only hope that he doesnt revert back to his ways and benches certain players because they cant run his offense.

    Bottomline. MDA has NEVER shown he has the capabilities to put a successful defensive product on the floor.

  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    OK. Am I getting this right? We got cats on here that think MDA teaches and Preaches defense? I mean after years of it being obvious he doesnt, and after him basically saying the team that "SCORES THE MOST" plays the best defense. Do I have this right?

    WOW!

    Look fellas we can only HOPE that this cat sees the value in playing defense every game. We can only hope that he doesnt revert back to his ways and benches certain players because they cant run his offense.

    Bottomline. MDA has NEVER shown he has the capabilities to put a successful defensive product on the floor.
    No you aren't (at least not from me).

    My statement is the players matter way more than the coach, hence when we get better defensive players we play better defense, to the surprise of nobody named KBlack25.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    No you aren't (at least not from me).

    My statement is the players matter way more than the coach, hence when we get better defensive players we play better defense, to the surprise of nobody named KBlack25.
    i'm listening to coach Hubie brown...on 1050espn.. and he flat out said..


    Look.... paraphrase "it is up to the coaching staff to force player into good defensive postion"..

    he went on to talk about defensive philosophies.. and situational assignments...

    he also stressed that when a player get beat...there has to be a strategy where to force certain players.. basline, etc...where is the help comin from...etc..

    and if player dont follow that scheme.. then you have to sit.. see boozer in chicago early in the year

    he also said thet you canhide bad defensive players on a team..if you have good strategy..

    now i trust Hubie more than any other guy in the leauge..

    anybody that disagrees is obviously related to O'antoni...

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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    i'm listening to coach Hubie brown...on 1050espn.. and he flat out said..


    Look.... paraphrase "it is up to the coaching staff to force player into good defensive postion"..

    he went on to talk about defensive philosophies.. and situational assignments...

    he also stressed that when a player get beat...there has to be a strategy where to force certain players.. basline, etc...where is the help comin from...etc..

    and if player dont follow that scheme.. then you have to sit.. see boozer in chicago early in the year

    he also said thet you canhide bad defensive players on a team..if you have good strategy..

    now i trust Hubie more than any other guy in the leauge..

    anybody that disagrees is obviously related to O'antoni...
    Chauncey Billups is related to D'Antoni?

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