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Thread: I'm beating a dead horse but Mike D is probably the problem

  1. #76
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    And as I have stated over and over again you overstate the facts. Mike D'Antoni has coached teams to the top half of defensive rating. You guys would have us believe he is in the bottom 5 yearly, which he isn't, except for the last two years during which we had some truly AWFUL squads, talent-wise.
    Spin fail. No I wouldn't have you believe anything, nor did I include any #'s that conclude he is bottom 5. That was your spin. He's been middle of the road at best, and ultimately not good enough. Consider his TOP offensive ratings couplede with his mediocre D and we can conclude where his weak points are.

    The fact that I think it is the PLAYERS is why I am defending Mike D'Antoni, because I think that the players, not the coach, affect the game much more. Are there good and bad coaches? Of course there are. I am not saying D'Antoni is a defensive genius. Nor am I saying he is perfect, I was yelling that in a crucial spot, with STAT and Amare and Billups, an inbounds play was called for BILL WALKER yesterday. But at the end of the day, MDA isn't missing layups. MDA isn't refusing to boxout. MDA doesn't miss free throws. MDA doesn't let his guy blow right by him. MDA doesn't let LeBron get to the rack (only to be saved by Amare collapsing on defense). And I firmly, and will always firmly, believe that coaches are more similar than they are different.
    But you don't know/understand his system. How do you know it was the players? In fact an argument can be made that the ability of these players is not only there, but really has no bearing on the scheme as its implemented.

    This shows me you don't understand the role of the coach or what his ratings are based on. The stats themselves reflect the coaches ability to adapt withe roster he has. Before some were arguing that he could've won if it not been for bad luck in PHX. So he had the pieces
    & what happened? He lost. But it wasn't due to lack of defense right? Well they were near the top in offense so where were they weak? O yeah in luck...smh


    u say the stats show we aren't improving:

    We are better this year in defensive rating.
    Amare is blocking a ton of shots.
    And this whole board today is blowing up about the good defense we played.
    No, I was saying MDA's stats don't show an improvement. And we lead the league no only in blocks because we have a swiss cheese lay-up line, but we also lead in points scored against in the paint. Only someone who understands defensive concept will know why this is.

    Btw really I'm not complaining just stating the obvious. MDA defense is avg at best and as you say, a player can make more of a difference than the coach WHEN IT COMES TO DANTONI. That's not saying much.

    You want to sit here and talk about MDA's limits as a coach, bash his limitations, but what about our limitations as a squad? You consistently refuse to ignore those. Fact is, you can't draw blood from a stone. Amare didn't play good defense with Alvin Gentry, he is playing better this season on defense than I have ever seen him. We don't have a true center, at all. To start the year our centers were Mozgov and Turiaf, now they are Turiaf and nobody, basically. Carmelo's most recent coach bashed him for not having effort on defense, he played genuinely poor defense, even when Karl tried to preach it consistently. This tells me it is more the players.
    PLEASE stop it. This whole thing is based on an improved defense INEPENDENT of coach D'Antoni. And trust he will never get credit when 2 maxs decide to run the defense. His credit would of been due when the time to make players better defensively was apprent. He failed. Because he's mediocre and middle of the road. Just logic. Not rocket science.


    Hubie Brown doesn't have an agenda; but he has a point of view. He is a coach, he came up as a coach, made his $ and his name as a coach. He isn't going to think coaching is as irrelevant as I do, and likely finds it more important than almost anyone on earth. So no, his comments do not surprise me in the least.

    You take everything said against MDA seriously, but then you accept that Billups had to spin his comments in a certain way, that JJ said things in a certain way for ulterior motives. It is YOU, Red, consistently spinning and being clearly and obviously biased, taking information that helps your argument at face value, and ignoring or recasting information that goes against it.
    Wow, ialready formed my opinion. Hubie echoed those sentiments. Don't hate.


    You have even contradicted yourself:

    You criticized, earlier in the year, MDA for not being able to adapt.
    Now you are saying that he can adapt, but he shouldn't get credit b/c that is the player's doing?

    You criticized, earlier in the year, MDA for not coaching up defense.
    But when we play good defense, it is the players. (My argument that you, by the way SLAMMED, from the beginning.)
    REPEAT AFTER ME...

    REGARDLESS OF PLAYERS A-Z Skill level, independent of circumstance, a coach can be evaluated on many things, especially with a large body of work.

    Why not just hire anyone, sh*t why not just go with no coach, its the players? The truth is the teams perfomance is a reflection of the coach. His strategy, approach, handling of personalites, priorities etc... are you aware of how to evaluate? Not if you like him. Evaluate his coaching? Can you do this regardless of the roster? Don't think so.

    There is no contridiction. Billups knows more defense than an overpaid coach. And these players can perform and overcme the limitations of this coach. I'm cool with that, but the ability and strategy are what they are.

    When have you heard of mda being a good defensive coach? When have you heard of mda making players bettr defensively? Never. But we hear he's not that good at defense all the time. You don't think hundreds of people are on to something?


    In regards to the technical questions, I can give you answers, but ultimately it boils down to: I blame the players for their shortcomings, you blame the coach. Something I have reiterated countless times on this board. It all stems back to the fact that YOU want to blame the coaches, and I want to blame the players, it is a fundamental disagreement in our ideologies that will never be resolved, informing our opinions and the way we watch things.
    NO it boils down to when we look at the stats and compare him and his players to others accros the league and throughout history a conclusion of mda not being a good defensive coach is reached. You just can't accept that.

  2. #77
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    I'm gonna go ahead now and take credit for last week proving unequivocally that Coach's past defenses were atleast average, something the purest Mike D haters could not admit before. The d-rating stat is real deal proof peoples ..
    :-)
    To add to the above..

    If Mike D's defenses were average back in his Phoenix days. If he plays more defensively minded players, like he did last night, we can be better on defense than those teams. It's about the playerz~

    Notice how the MDA supporterz have stayed consistent and the haters are switching it up now to try and support their argument. It won't work. All of a sudden NOW the players are the reason were playing better D. Do ya think?? You can't make this sh*t up. Others have already pointed this out, but the hypocracy is so blantant I can't help but comment on it... So undeniably lame.

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    You guys already know how much I hate Mike D and his No Defense but he surely deserves so credit for the D we played versus Miami.He went all out and played 11 players 4 of them defensive guys, he even played Anthony Carter solely for defense on Wade, he even brought Walker back in the game( struggled offensively) to guard LeBron(did a good job staying in front of him for a few minutes).

    This is what we want from Mike D, we want to be able to get stops and turnovers so we can get out on the break or mismatches because we know we aren't going to be able to force feed Melo/Amare all night. Playing D will help get other guys easy points and help us get easier looks.

    It seems like everyone has been stressing defense lately from the players to the coaches and Media and with the players we just waived if we get some defensive bigs I think we are in good shape.

  4. #79
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Knicksfansince92
    You guys already know how much I hate Mike D and his No Defense but he surely deserves so credit for the D we played versus Miami.He went all out and played 11 players 4 of them defensive guys, he even played Anthony Carter solely for defense on Wade, he even brought Walker back in the game( struggled offensively) to guard LeBron(did a good job staying in front of him for a few minutes).

    This is what we want from Mike D, we want to be able to get stops and turnovers so we can get out on the break or mismatches because we know we aren't going to be able to force feed Melo/Amare all night. Playing D will help get other guys easy points and help us get easier looks.

    It seems like everyone has been stressing defense lately from the players to the coaches and Media and with the players we just waived if we get some defensive bigs I think we are in good shape.
    Finally someone with a rational viewpoint, at least if you blame MDA when things go wrong you give him proper credit when things go right.

    Thank you.

  5. #80
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Spin fail. No I wouldn't have you believe anything, nor did I include any #'s that conclude he is bottom 5. That was your spin. He's been middle of the road at best, and ultimately not good enough. Consider his TOP offensive ratings couplede with his mediocre D and we can conclude where his weak points are.
    Again, who are you arguing against? Yourself? Nobody is saying MDA is strong defensively, that he is some defensive guru and draws up sweet ass defensive plays on every play. And when I say "you" I don't necessarily mean "you" particularly, I mean you and the people that argue similar points to you. And I never said you explicitly said that you said he was bottom 5, that's your spin (see what I did there?)...I said you make it sound like he is bottom 5, and someone who didn't know better, listening to you, might believe that.

    Originally Posted by Red
    But you don't know/understand his system. How do you know it was the players? In fact an argument can be made that the ability of these players is not only there, but really has no bearing on the scheme as its implemented.

    This shows me you don't understand the role of the coach or what his ratings are based on. The stats themselves reflect the coaches ability to adapt withe roster he has. Before some were arguing that he could've won if it not been for bad luck in PHX. So he had the pieces
    & what happened? He lost. But it wasn't due to lack of defense right? Well they were near the top in offense so where were they weak? O yeah in luck...smh
    I don't think anyone was arguing that "bad luck"...again, Red's spin-session at work . What has been argued is that D'Antoni would have stood a better chance if Amare didn't leave the bench during a fight, leading to an automatic suspension? Are you suggesting that Amare being on the floor in the Western Conference Finals WOULDN'T have helped the Suns win it all? I don't think you are, but nobody is arguing luck. I think it makes sense to think that MAYBE the Suns stood a better chance of winning that series with Amare than without him. Of course, luck is a factor (the ball bounces one way instead of another, the ref sees one foul call and not another, etc.) that is completely random and likely evens out in the end. But no team in the playoffs wins every game without somewhere down the road encountering a little bit of good luck. But that's life.


    Originally Posted by Red
    No, I was saying MDA's stats don't show an improvement. And we lead the league no only in blocks because we have a swiss cheese lay-up line, but we also lead in points scored against in the paint. Only someone who understands defensive concept will know why this is.
    Because our centers this season were, let's count them off: an undersized Ronnie Turiaf, an out of position Amare Stoudemire, a European Undrafted Rookie Project Timofey Mozgov, and the rotting corpse of Eddy Curry. Literally. That's it.

    Are you REALLY suggesting that points in the paint allowed has NOTHING to do with the fact that this might be overall the smallest team in the league? REALLY?! REALLY?!?!?! Obviously the lack of SIZE the team has has a lot to do with whether or not opponents can score in the paint. Or I guess you want MDA to parade out there and stand in the middle? Because it's all the coaches' fault.


    Originally Posted by Red
    PLEASE stop it. This whole thing is based on an improved defense INEPENDENT of coach D'Antoni. And trust he will never get credit when 2 maxs decide to run the defense. His credit would of been due when the time to make players better defensively was apprent. He failed. Because he's mediocre and middle of the road. Just logic. Not rocket science.
    So you are arguing a logical farcical tautology. Exactly what I said: the team doesn't run defense, and MDA is to blame. The team DOES run defense, MDA gets no credit and it's on the players. Good argument...you know, if you like farcical results where one result is apparently an impossiblity with no grounding in reality.

    Originally Posted by Red
    Wow, ialready formed my opinion. Hubie echoed those sentiments. Don't hate.
    LMFAO! So you are admitting you are taking Hubie's point to heart, but you don't want to listen to/give heed to Chauncey's statement? Or JJ's statement?


    Originally Posted by Red
    REPEAT AFTER ME...

    REGARDLESS OF PLAYERS A-Z Skill level, independent of circumstance, a coach can be evaluated on many things, especially with a large body of work.
    Ugh...do I really have to be the teacher on elementary statistics?

    Whenever you look at statistics, there are several variables to factor in. Variables are elements that might affect a statistical output. For instance, when you are boiling water, normally it boils at 100 degrees celsius, but when you change altitudes that boiling point differs. Altitude is what we consider a variable.

    So, when considering points per game, a variable that controls a lot of the output is number of possessions. An increase in the number of possessions, independent of anything else, will lead to skewed output in points per game.

    Players, and their respective talent levels in all facets of the game, are also what we call "variables". A team of Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Bruce Bowen, James Jones and Rafer Alston will not score a lot of points (of course relative to the number of possessions), regardless of whether Mike D'Antoni, Isiah Thomas, or James Dolan is the head coach. "Players" are variables, and their respective talent levels NECESSARILY impact the final statistical output at the end.

    So no, statistically speaking, you cannot evaluate a coach independent of his players. You might be able to establish weak or mild correlations, but you cannot prove causation because there are too many variables to factor in.

    Originally Posted by Red
    Why not just hire anyone, sh*t why not just go with no coach, its the players? The truth is the teams perfomance is a reflection of the coach. His strategy, approach, handling of personalites, priorities etc... are you aware of how to evaluate? Not if you like him. Evaluate his coaching? Can you do this regardless of the roster? Don't think so.
    No, you can't evaluate a coach regardless of the roster for the reasons I outlined above. Do you think that parades out a small lineup versus a big lineup is going to outrebound the other team? Are they going to be able to stop the other team in the paint? Again, if you go out there with Turiaf-Stoudemire trying to guard guys like D12, or even to a lesser extent, to guard guys like Big Baby or any other teams with size in the league (and compared to us, everyone has size), you are going to give up points in the paint.

    You obviously did not read my post, or just read what you wanted...to borrow your own line "Comprehension is key" Practice what you preach. I clearly state that there are good coaches and bad coaches, but I believe, and will always believe, that coaches are more the same than they are similar. They cannot, and will not ever, sway the game more than the players actually on the floor.

    Originally Posted by Red
    There is no contridiction. Billups knows more defense than an overpaid coach. And these players can perform and overcme the limitations of this coach. I'm cool with that, but the ability and strategy are what they are.

    When have you heard of mda being a good defensive coach? When have you heard of mda making players bettr defensively? Never. But we hear he's not that good at defense all the time. You don't think hundreds of people are on to something?
    Did you even read my post? I clear and explicitly stated that D'Antoni is not a good defensive coach, I know that, I understand that. But he also didn't have good defensive players, nor a roster that would ever be adept at clogging the middle. Cite Tom Thibodeau all you want, but he has Joakim Noah and Carlos Boozer clogging the middle, Noah was a stellar defender BEFORE Tom got there, and Boozer at least tries on defense (unlike STAT, who even under Gentry didn't try). We do not have the size or the ability, until we got guys like Billups, Carter and Balkman here to play better defense at least on the exterior. We are still going to suffer in the paint, notice last night our great defense was against the interior of Joel Anthony and the Jump Shooting Chris Bosh.


    Originally Posted by Red
    NO it boils down to when we look at the stats and compare him and his players to others accros the league and throughout history a conclusion of mda not being a good defensive coach is reached. You just can't accept that.
    Are you comparing this team to other rosters across the league? How many teams in the league are less able to bang in the paint than we are? 2? 3?

    YOU want to blame the coach. I want to blame the roster. That's fine. That's your opinion. But that's what it is.

    You clearly contradicted yourself:

    You said MDA could not adapt.
    Now you say he is adapting.

    So: answer, which is it?


    You said that the COACH dictates the defense.
    Now, when good defense is played, it's the players (which I AGREE with).

    So: answer, which is it.
    Last edited by KBlack25; Feb 28, 2011 at 22:08.

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    ...

    Everybody takes blame in every situation.

    If the team loses and the defense is terrible, is it the players' fault, or the coaches' fault? It's BOTH. It's the players' fault for not performing, and it's the coach's fault for not getting the players to perform well (whether it's motivating them or using strategies that utilize their talents and hide their weaknesses).

    That being said you have to realize that D'Antoni didn't have much choice when it came to playing Centers on our team - Ronny Turiaf is good but undersized and oft-injured, Mozgov is RAW and got into way too much foul trouble, and who else is there? That's it. If Turiaf is injured and Mozgov can't catch a pass then the only person on your roster who can play Center is Amar'e Stoudemire and that means playing a small lineup.

    D'Antoni basically had no choice against teams like the Lakers. Mozgov was not ready to hang with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol, so D'Antoni's only option was to go small and do their best to out-run and out-gun them, which, again, is never an ideal strategy but when Turiaf is hurt and Mozgov has butterfingers you don't really have much choice as a coach.

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    ...

    Everybody takes blame in every situation.

    If the team loses and the defense is terrible, is it the players' fault, or the coaches' fault? It's BOTH. It's the players' fault for not performing, and it's the coach's fault for not getting the players to perform well (whether it's motivating them or using strategies that utilize their talents and hide their weaknesses).

    That being said you have to realize that D'Antoni didn't have much choice when it came to playing Centers on our team - Ronny Turiaf is good but undersized and oft-injured, Mozgov is RAW and got into way too much foul trouble, and who else is there? That's it. If Turiaf is injured and Mozgov can't catch a pass then the only person on your roster who can play Center is Amar'e Stoudemire and that means playing a small lineup.

    D'Antoni basically had no choice against teams like the Lakers. Mozgov was not ready to hang with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol, so D'Antoni's only option was to go small and do their best to out-run and out-gun them, which, again, is never an ideal strategy but when Turiaf is hurt and Mozgov has butterfingers you don't really have much choice as a coach.
    Mozgov may have been raw, but he was a better option than playing Shawne Williams on Bynum....

    Defense needs to be inspired, but it also has to be taught. Poor individual defenders can be taught how to play team defense. Team defense can lead to wins. The Bulls and Spurs play great defense despite having some poor defenders. The Celtics have poor defenders with the exception of Garnet and Rondo, yet play amazing team defense.

    Sure players have to play the game of basketball, but when one end of the court is emphasized so much, the other goes by the wayside. Felton and Amar'e have both said as much this year.

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    Mozgov may have been raw, but he was a better option than playing Shawne Williams on Bynum....

    Defense needs to be inspired, but it also has to be taught. Poor individual defenders can be taught how to play team defense. Team defense can lead to wins. The Bulls and Spurs play great defense despite having some poor defenders. The Celtics have poor defenders with the exception of Garnet and Rondo, yet play amazing team defense.

    Sure players have to play the game of basketball, but when one end of the court is emphasized so much, the other goes by the wayside. Felton and Amar'e have both said as much this year.
    The three teams you mentioned:

    The Bulls
    The Spurs
    The Celtics

    What do they all have in common? They all have legitimate center options:

    Bulls:
    Noah - a good defender before Tom Thibodeau got there
    Boozer - a very good rebounder

    Spurs:
    Duncan - a very good defender
    Blair - a very good rebounder, even in college

    Celtics:
    Garnett who you admitted was a good defender
    Kendrick Perkins (before the trade) - a good rebounder, big body inside
    Glenn Davis - a good rebounder, big body inside
    Shaq - big body inside


    Who are/were our center options and bodies in the middle:
    Ronny Turiaf - good, but undersized
    Stoudemire - who never played defense, even under Alvin Gentry, isn't a great rebounder
    Mozgov - a project European undrafted rookie who didn't rebound well early
    Curry - enough said

    Notice the difference between the THREE squads you mentioned and ours in terms of just talent and the roster?

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    And as I have stated over and over again you overstate the facts. Mike D'Antoni has coached teams to the top half of defensive rating. You guys would have us believe he is in the bottom 5 yearly, which he isn't, except for the last two years during which we had some truly AWFUL squads, talent-wise.

    The fact that I think it is the PLAYERS is why I am defending Mike D'Antoni, because I think that the players, not the coach, affect the game much more. Are there good and bad coaches? Of course there are. I am not saying D'Antoni is a defensive genius. Nor am I saying he is perfect, I was yelling that in a crucial spot, with STAT and Amare and Billups, an inbounds play was called for BILL WALKER yesterday. But at the end of the day, MDA isn't missing layups. MDA isn't refusing to boxout. MDA doesn't miss free throws. MDA doesn't let his guy blow right by him. MDA doesn't let LeBron get to the rack (only to be saved by Amare collapsing on defense). And I firmly, and will always firmly, believe that coaches are more similar than they are different.

    You say the stats show we aren't improving:

    We are better this year in defensive rating.
    Amare is blocking a ton of shots.
    And this whole board today is blowing up about the good defense we played.

    You want to sit here and talk about MDA's limits as a coach, bash his limitations, but what about our limitations as a squad? You consistently refuse to ignore those. Fact is, you can't draw blood from a stone. Amare didn't play good defense with Alvin Gentry, he is playing better this season on defense than I have ever seen him. We don't have a true center, at all. To start the year our centers were Mozgov and Turiaf, now they are Turiaf and nobody, basically. Carmelo's most recent coach bashed him for not having effort on defense, he played genuinely poor defense, even when Karl tried to preach it consistently. This tells me it is more the players.

    Hubie Brown doesn't have an agenda; but he has a point of view. He is a coach, he came up as a coach, made his $ and his name as a coach. He isn't going to think coaching is as irrelevant as I do, and likely finds it more important than almost anyone on earth. So no, his comments do not surprise me in the least.

    You take everything said against MDA seriously, but then you accept that Billups had to spin his comments in a certain way, that JJ said things in a certain way for ulterior motives. It is YOU, Red, consistently spinning and being clearly and obviously biased, taking information that helps your argument at face value, and ignoring or recasting information that goes against it.

    You have even contradicted yourself:

    You criticized, earlier in the year, MDA for not being able to adapt.
    Now you are saying that he can adapt, but he shouldn't get credit b/c that is the player's doing?

    You criticized, earlier in the year, MDA for not coaching up defense.
    But when we play good defense, it is the players. (My argument that you, by the way SLAMMED, from the beginning.)

    In regards to the technical questions, I can give you answers, but ultimately it boils down to: I blame the players for their shortcomings, you blame the coach. Something I have reiterated countless times on this board. It all stems back to the fact that YOU want to blame the coaches, and I want to blame the players, it is a fundamental disagreement in our ideologies that will never be resolved, informing our opinions and the way we watch things.
    WELL PUT. I think the arguement should be on a percentage. and we should do a poll.

    is the way we play

    100% coaching

    100% players ability

    50/50% coaching/players ability

    60/40% coaching/players ability

    40/60% coaching/players ability

    because both of you guys are wrong, is not the players fault or the coach, ths both of them. The coach is a part of the team, and many people on the team fall down, but i feel that when it comes down to it, its the players ability (great players dont need much coaching and development) because on the floor, its the players that make and miss shots. Every play drawn up is designed to work. No coach designs a play to fail, so to me, it all comes down to execution.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Finally someone with a rational viewpoint, at least if you blame MDA when things go wrong you give him proper credit when things go right.

    Thank you.
    im not saying O'antoni doesnt deserve credit for our defense in one game against the heat.. but why did this take so long???

    it was one game.. was it luck???

    carter begged O;antoni to play him on wade.. he guaranteed our coach that he would be able to do a good job on Dwade....im glad he listen.. but he should challenge guys to want to defend.

    this is a back and forth argument...with no end

    however.. its clear that o'antoni lacks on the defensive end.. its that simple

    its like a girl with a banging body and good looks... and its easy to get her in the bed..and she not that smart.. u wonder how easy it was for others to get her in bed....

    lets not be that blind....

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    I think the biggest problem with this thread is the extremes put out by some posters here.

    It is one thing to say we cannot win a championship because D'antoni is not a defensive minded coach.

    It is another thing to say we cannot win a championship because D'antoni never ever preaches defense, never teaches it, and benches and limits defensive players because they have limited offensive capabilities.

    Kblack, Trill, Toons, and company rarely argue extremes.

    The are defending against emotional/arrogant/inane opinions that have very little proof and credibility.

    I have yet to see them say something like:

    D'antoni will win us a chamionship because he can teach our current roster to completely outscore the other team and defense will never matter.

    This is the problem.

    NOBODY here is saying MD is a defensive genious.
    NOBODY here is saying defense does not win championships.

    But there is a group of people who will always blame MD for everything and give him ZERO credit and then back it up with emotional hateful tirades.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    I clear and explicitly stated that D'Antoni is not a good defensive coach, I know that, I understand that.

    Really, with as many lines of spin garbage you provided, you could of fooled us.

    Brutal FAILURE!

    TAKE A SEAT.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    Really, with as many lines of spin garbage you provided, you could of fooled us.

    Brutal FAILURE!

    TAKE A SEAT.
    just because defense is not your specialty doesnt mean that you do not teach defense. Hes a frickin NBA coach. Dantoni knows more about defense than everyone on this board combined. Every single play in every coach's playbook is designed to score a basket. No one draws up a play to fail. It comes down to execution. With a C plus grade on teaching defense, An A grade on offense and the right defensive players, our team can look like an A for offense and B for defense.

  14. #89
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    Originally Posted by Toons
    just because defense is not your specialty doesnt mean that you do not teach defense. Hes a frickin NBA coach. Dantoni knows more about defense than everyone on this board combined. Every single play in every coach's playbook is designed to score a basket. No one draws up a play to fail. It comes down to execution. With a C plus grade on teaching defense, An A grade on offense and the right defensive players, our team can look like an A for offense and B for defense.
    I agree. with a decent rebounding center in the mold of marcus camby, we can easily be up there with the best.

  15. #90
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    and im watching this heat knicks game again, in the huddle, dantoni preaches defense, tells them to dig in, stay at home, and gang rebound the opponents. most interesting, to end the huddle, dantoni said...''defense on 3'' 1...2...3...(everyone) ''DEFENSE!''

    at the start of the second q, mike was being interviewd and was asked about anthony carter, dantoni's reply was again, based on defense.

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