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Thread: Knicks COULD be contenders before 2012...

  1. #1
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Default Knicks COULD be contenders before 2012...

    FYI this thread is not a reaction to the Knicks @ Heat game which I haven't seen yet. Just my observations.

    Since the Melo trade a lot of what I've read on this forum dismisses our Knicks team as not strong enough, even with the addition of 2 players, to make it deep into the playoffs.

    Now I get it, our rebounding is horrible, we need at least one more big who will board and hopefully JJ can do what he did back in the day even when he's not adding much to his own statsheet he fires up the team to play with some defensive intensity (good luck getting Melo to play like that!).

    However what I don't get is why people think we need to wait for yet ANOTHER saviour in 2012 in the form of Deron or CP3.

    Guys we have two of the best players in the league, both top 10 players, only just stiking the prime of their careers. We have a veteran and still quality PG who can score and take the load off when needed. We have a smart, young SG who is only going to get better. We have a handful of role players who can help us down the stretch.

    I mean, I know Denver has Nene, but they didn't have Stat... And look at the success Denver had in recent years. Imagine the 2009 Nuggets with Stat on their team! They would be title contenders without a doubt.

    Apart from our inside presence (which can be gotten much earlier than 2012) what is it that you guys see that I don't? Why is this team not at least a contender in the East?

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    Veteran knicksin60's Avatar
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    The Knicks have to beat the immortal Cleveland Cavaliers before the term contender is used to describe them.

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    Member PaPZ187's Avatar
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    I feel this team can become a contender without adding a CP3 or D-Will in 2012, but they still need to add some pieces to get to that next level.

    If the Heat never teamed up to get LeBron and Bosh along with retaining Wade then we would probably would be a stronger contender this year, after signing a big man ofcourse. Problem is you have to compete with the Heat, Magic and the extremley deep Celtics team, not to mention Chicago as well.

    We just dont have the depth inside to be where we want to be just yet, but we can get there without CP3 or D-Will at the point, it is just going to take some time and some pieces.

    We are definatley going in the right direction and are getting closer to becoming a top contender.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    ...Now I get it, our rebounding is horrible, we need at least one more big who will board and hopefully JJ can do what he did back in the day even when he's not adding much to his own statsheet he fires up the team to play with some defensive intensity (good luck getting Melo to play like that!). ...
    This is why the Knicks will not contend in 2011. Winning is the first round is not contending. At the same time, losing in the first round does not mean you weren't contending. A contending team in the East is one that has a realistic chance to win the East and that is not going to happen because of what you just pointed out. you aren't beting Chicago, Boston, or Miami (or even Orlando or Atlanta) without making plays under the boards and making some stops.

    Last night was an eye opener though. If the Knicks do THAT against top teams with regularity, then they might have a slim chance. But they also lost to Cleveland, so I need to see more consistency.

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    Originally Posted by ech1997
    This is why the Knicks will not contend in 2011. Winning is the first round is not contending. At the same time, losing in the first round does not mean you weren't contending. A contending team in the East is one that has a realistic chance to win the East and that is not going to happen because of what you just pointed out. you aren't beting Chicago, Boston, or Miami (or even Orlando or Atlanta) without making plays under the boards and making some stops.

    Last night was an eye opener though. If the Knicks do THAT against top teams with regularity, then they might have a slim chance. But they also lost to Cleveland, so I need to see more consistency.
    The Yankees. Everyone thought they had a legit shot to win the WS last season. Everyone thought that the Giants had an outside shot and the jets almost got to SB. However NO ONE thought the Knicks had any chance of contending for the EAST let alone a Title this season. Wouldnt it be some s--- if they SHOCKED the world and just got HOT at the right time like the GMEN did in 2007 and win it all by beating all the UNBEATABLES!!!!!

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    Veteran knicksin60's Avatar
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    There aren't as many surprise teams in the NBA as there are in MLB and in the NFL.When was the last time that an NBA team, who no one expected to do anything, entered into the playoffs and shocked the world? You would probably have to go back to when the Warriors beat the the Mavericks a few years ago, but even they didn't last very long in the playoffs after that.

    The NBA is one of the most predictable leagues in all of sports when it comes to title contenders.When either one of two Western Conference teams have been responsible for appearing in 11 of the last 12 NBA finals you know that the NBA is no crap shoot.

    One of the reasons why the Knicks made the NBA finals 12 years ago was because the Eastern Conference wasn't really that strong back then and the Knicks had just as much talent on their team as the teams that they eliminated to get to the finals.But once the Knicks went up against a team that had more talent than them, they couldn't compete against them.

    In order for the Knicks to reach the NBA finals this year, they would have to give an 110% effort on the defensive end and the teams that they will be facing would have to be missing one of their major stars.Teams like the Celtics, Bulls, Heat and Magic will have opportunities to study the Knicks very well and expose their weaknesses.The Knicks could take any of those teams to seven games, but I think that their lack of talent in the front court and the fact that they won't have home court advantage is the reason why they might have to wait another year in order to contend.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smokes

    Now I get it, our rebounding is horrible, we need at least one more big who will board and hopefully JJ can do what he did back in the day even when he's not adding much to his own statsheet he fires up the team to play with some defensive intensity (good luck getting Melo to play like that!).
    Melo's D was actually very good in Miami. Particularly one on one with James. He played an excellent game.

    Apart from our inside presence (which can be gotten much earlier than 2012) what is it that you guys see that I don't? Why is this team not at least a contender in the East?
    There are still a lot of circulating questions about the coach and the line up. We've just waived Brewer and Azubuike, I assume to avoid paying less luxury tax, and Jefferies is coming back. How will all that play out?

    No real center, Barron and Murphy as good as forgotten.

    Fields has struggled since the arrival of Anthony and Billups.

    We have a lot of pluses, but we're still a bit of a question mark.

    I think we'll find out in the next 10-15 games just how legit we are.

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    Veteran KingofNy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    There aren't as many surprise teams in the NBA as there are in MLB and in the NFL.When was the last time that an NBA team, who no one expected to do anything, entered into the playoffs and shocked the world? You would probably have to go back to when the Warriors beat the the Mavericks a few years ago, but even they didn't last very long in the playoffs after that.

    The NBA is one of the most predictable leagues in all of sports when it comes to title contenders.When either one of two Western Conference teams have been responsible for appearing in 11 of the last 12 NBA finals you know that the NBA is no crap shoot.

    One of the reasons why the Knicks made the NBA finals 12 years ago was because the Eastern Conference wasn't really that strong back then and the Knicks had just as much talent on their team as the teams that they eliminated to get to the finals.But once the Knicks went up against a team that had more talent than them, they couldn't compete against them.

    In order for the Knicks to reach the NBA finals this year, they would have to give an 110% effort on the defensive end and the teams that they will be facing would have to be missing one of their major stars.Teams like the Celtics, Bulls, Heat and Magic will have opportunities to study the Knicks very well and expose their weaknesses.The Knicks could take any of those teams to seven games, but I think that their lack of talent in the front court and the fact that they won't have home court advantage is the reason why they might have to wait another year in order to contend.

    It's because in the NBA the refs have the most control over the outcome of the game. Unless a team is on fire for a whole series the refs can basically decide the outcome of the series. This is why getting as many stars as possible is crucial. Stars get the fouls and earn trips to the line. The more stars you have the more times the refs call fouls in your favor.

    Fans sometimes forget the NBA is still a business and Stern wants his money. You're crazy if you don't think the refs call the games in favor of what the NBA wants the outcome to be. The more stars in a playoff game the better the ratings and the more money the NBA receives from sponsorships and television contracts. The NBA wants big markets to be in the playoffs, especially the finals. It's sad but true.

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    Melo's D was actually very good in Miami. Particularly one on one with James. He played an excellent game.



    There are still a lot of circulating questions about the coach and the line up. We've just waived Brewer and Azubuike, I assume to avoid paying less luxury tax, and Jefferies is coming back. How will all that play out?

    No real center, Barron and Murphy as good as forgotten.

    Fields has struggled since the arrival of Anthony and Billups.

    We have a lot of pluses, but we're still a bit of a question mark.

    I think we'll find out in the next 10-15 games just how legit we are.
    Like I said I haven't seen the Heat game yet I just know from what I saw in the Milwaukee game it was pretty depressing seeing Melo just literally standing around on D sometimes. Hopefully if he is playing solid D when it's big time then he'll be ok.

    I'm not sure Fields uncertainty on the court has so much to do with the change of personell could just be a rookie slump or anything he's still very young and has overachieved all season. He will be back to form soon.

    Personally I think the next 10-15 games are the least thats going to be needed to let this team settle. Remember we are into March Madness now! Not much respite or practice time for our team to gel together but I'm sure once they do we are gonna be very legit. Legit contenders? Let's add a bit of rebounding and find out

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    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    This team needs more muscle up front to be considered a legitimate contender. Beating the Heat in a regular season game is way different than beating them in a 7 game series. We're much closer to getting there than we were before but there's still work to do before this team can be considered among the elite teams in the NBA.

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    Being able to do something and actually doing it are two different things. I think they have enough talent to win a championship this year, but actually doing it is something else.

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    Don't tell that to Michael Kay

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