mafra
Legend
Losing season in DEN. Losing season first year in PHO. Losing season first 2 years in NY. Barely above .500 this year.
Again, I'm not impressed. If Maybe Nash-Stat had a lot to do with that run in PHO?
We win....Its the Players. We lose, its the coach. smh
- Thread starter Toons
- Start date
Losing season in DEN. Losing season first year in PHO. Losing season first 2 years in NY. Barely above .500 this year.
Again, I'm not impressed. If Maybe Nash-Stat had a lot to do with that run in PHO?
mafra
Legend
And I know where you stand. You like this under 6"9' Euro-style system that his little use for BIGS or defense.
Coaches always take the blame for Ls. That's just the way it is in sports.
MD was given a 2 year pass. He certainly didn't exceed expectations. But fine. He's been an underachiever this season. 40 wins and a playoff berth was par. So he's on track to at least put for par.
Our problem is his overall philosophy. He doesn't practice defense, doesn't adjust, he never has a defensive game plan. HIs offense relies on space (in other words, nobody move or cut) and he prefer higher pct 3-point shots over points in the paint.
OH, did I mentioned he pushed Walsh to draft his godson?
mafra
Legend
They have career years under his guidance b/c his system says SHOOT. SHHOT SHOOT SHOOT. Don't pass... SHOOT. Players dip when they leave b/c most teams actually want the first BEST shot, not to just chuck ball in under 7 seconds.
5th spot? We're in the 6th, and the 7th team is 1 game behind us.
Credit goes to Walsh for Fields.
Keep it coming.
I think its hilarious that everyone was praising the Knick's defense for most of that Magic game and then as soon as 2 opposing players get hot while our team gets cold, its suddenly OMFG we play no defense we suck dog ass!
It happens. It was a good game. Resist the urge to place all blame on the easiest target. Control yourself. You can do it. Really.
Remind yourself that we shook up our entire roster yet again. There was no training camp for the new guys. You can't magically expect the team to gel instantly. There is no coach on earth that can do that. Patience dear grasshoppers.
Dantoni certainly can shoulder some of the blame the same as any other coach in the league for a loss. However, coaches aren't clairvoyant. They can't always predict when a player will get hot or cold on either team. If half you guys were GMS, we would be firing coaches after every loss.
It happens. It was a good game. Resist the urge to place all blame on the easiest target. Control yourself. You can do it. Really.
Remind yourself that we shook up our entire roster yet again. There was no training camp for the new guys. You can't magically expect the team to gel instantly. There is no coach on earth that can do that. Patience dear grasshoppers.
Dantoni certainly can shoulder some of the blame the same as any other coach in the league for a loss. However, coaches aren't clairvoyant. They can't always predict when a player will get hot or cold on either team. If half you guys were GMS, we would be firing coaches after every loss.
TR1LL10N
Hannibal Lecter
Losing season with a Denver team filled with complete scrubs! WOrse roster than the Knicks in a rebuilding year.
He took over that team mid year and boasts the biggest turn around in league history winning 60+ next season.
Again, I'm not impressed. If Maybe Nash-Stat had a lot to do with that run in PHO?[/QUOTE]
He coached a raw rookie straight from highschool into a beast and took an average PG and made him a HOF candidate.
Oh and again, two loosing seasons in NYC was due to us rebuilding and making major trades midseason that brought back less talent while disrupting any chemistry. As to this year, most experts predicted we would be fighting for the 8th seed not in contention to become the 5th. He did this with an incomplete roster and injuries. But of course you continue to prove that you will blame D'ant for everything ignoring all the issues and rob him of any credit. Meh..haters gonna hate so do you.
TR1LL10N
Hannibal Lecter
Yet he played Mozgov, Turiaf and JJ all above 6'10 and all for defense and rebounding...
Yea his godson who happened to play very well for us. Oh and we just traded him even though the myth was D'ant wouldn't allow it...
TR1LL10N
Hannibal Lecter
Career years with increased FG%, rebounding and assists equals more than simply extra possessions...
yes, for a time prior to the trade we were in throwing distance of Atlanta. I like how you parse and dode the point where every team ahead of us had a better roster and the Knicks are overachieving beyond what anyone thought prior to the season.
Ahh, I see so credit goes to Walsh for drafting fields but blame goges to D'ant for drafting Gallo! :thumbsup: (even though I am a Gallo fan) Yes, credit goes to Walsh for drafting Fields but D'ant gets credit for coaching him, inserting him in the lineup and giving him the minutes to shine. What was that other myth about D'ant? Oh yea! He refuses to play rookies...wrong!
I would tell you to keep it coming but you have yet to begin...
mafra
Legend
I just don't buy into D'antoni's style. Sorry. Don't believe in it. Never will. I like FLUIDITY. MOVEMENT. Passing the ball. HIGH PCT SHOTs. I think SIZE MATTERS. If that makes me a hater, so be it.
Look what Thibby is doing in CHI. Not bad for his first year. JUST NOW, was he able to get both Noah-Boozer on the court at the same time.
I think good defense creates offense. I think D'ants style of offense... GOGOGOGOGOGOGO prohibits effort on defense. Then I want to puke when coach talks after the game and calls out the defensive effort (as if he coaches it).
I never liked the hire; wanted to puke when he drafts his godson; and I'm not happy b/c we might get the chance to lose in the first round to the bulls-heat. Knicks will never reach the FINALS under MD. That's reality.
Look what Thibby is doing in CHI. Not bad for his first year. JUST NOW, was he able to get both Noah-Boozer on the court at the same time.
I think good defense creates offense. I think D'ants style of offense... GOGOGOGOGOGOGO prohibits effort on defense. Then I want to puke when coach talks after the game and calls out the defensive effort (as if he coaches it).
I never liked the hire; wanted to puke when he drafts his godson; and I'm not happy b/c we might get the chance to lose in the first round to the bulls-heat. Knicks will never reach the FINALS under MD. That's reality.
if Walsh pass on melo becuz of O'antoni... he would of been let go...FACT..
there are articles that say it was more O'antoni unwillingness to part with Gallo than anything else...FACT
T mOz needed playin time.. O'antoni gave him some early on...IMO.. Walsh was behing that..
T moz would of never got off the bench again... until we had injuries.. and he played well in that one game and O'antoni stuck with him...IMO..walsh was behind that too...
who do you think is a better player right now.. Tmoz or darko???
MusketeerX
Rotation player
Nash and Amar'e will do that for you. Nash was D'Antoni's wet dream in real life. There is perhaps only on other player similar to him in the NBA... Deron Williams.
MusketeerX
Rotation player
D'Antoni doesn't emphasize defense. Is anyone disputing this? When we lose because we don't play defense, is there not a connection?
Do you guys really think that Amar'e and Melo wouldn't be playing better defense under Thibodeau?
I think the key statement was made by Mafra when he said defense and little offensive skill has proven to win rings. Offense with little defense has not shown the same.
Strongly believe will be a better team as soon as we get rid of MDA.
Do you guys really think that Amar'e and Melo wouldn't be playing better defense under Thibodeau?
I think the key statement was made by Mafra when he said defense and little offensive skill has proven to win rings. Offense with little defense has not shown the same.
Strongly believe will be a better team as soon as we get rid of MDA.
Toons
is the Bo$$
ok, to anyone replying with hostility, get a life.
next, How can you compare our front court to chicago's front court?
Noah is a defensive big with little offense. No one coached him into this category, he was drafted becaus eof his defensive instincts to block shots and his quickness for a big man. The bulls had another 7 footer in aaron gray last year, they have 7 footer omar asik and carlos boozer, with a backup of kurt thomas. We have amare and sean williams.
With a centre in the game, we beat the magic easily. A centre to make up for amare's deficiencies. A big that blocks and boards. Thats it, and we are a contender.
Like i said before, you cant get mad at dantoni because turiaf insnt an offensive player. You cant get mad at a pawn for not being a rook. You have to space the floor and play team defense. You cant just say, dont get beat by your man, or box out more, and bam, the team is now a defensive team, just because someone told you to be defensive.
I cant understand how people get upset because we lost to the magic when howard had probably his biggest mismatch of the season.
next, How can you compare our front court to chicago's front court?
Noah is a defensive big with little offense. No one coached him into this category, he was drafted becaus eof his defensive instincts to block shots and his quickness for a big man. The bulls had another 7 footer in aaron gray last year, they have 7 footer omar asik and carlos boozer, with a backup of kurt thomas. We have amare and sean williams.
With a centre in the game, we beat the magic easily. A centre to make up for amare's deficiencies. A big that blocks and boards. Thats it, and we are a contender.
Like i said before, you cant get mad at dantoni because turiaf insnt an offensive player. You cant get mad at a pawn for not being a rook. You have to space the floor and play team defense. You cant just say, dont get beat by your man, or box out more, and bam, the team is now a defensive team, just because someone told you to be defensive.
I cant understand how people get upset because we lost to the magic when howard had probably his biggest mismatch of the season.
Red
TYPE-A
I didn't read every post yet but...
Doesn't it depend on how we lose? Players cold or missing shots is different from bad matchups or not getting the ball into the right hands, so it depends.
Last night was definitly a winnable game. That said MDA is still learning things so can't really blame him. Maybe he didn't realize Jameer was too fast for Billups and either Landry, TD, or Carter would of been better. Williams on D12 in theory should bring Howard out of the paint and we couldn't use JJ as MDA probably would so it was what it was.
Not to be too critcal but
1. MDA will be judged when the situation rises again and we'll see if he can adjust, he gets a pass for last night
2. Billups injury hurt us
3. Inconsistency from Landry, TD, and Carter hurt as they were open but... that said I don't think its too much to expect a coach with his resume to have a plan b and c
But yeah sometimes its coach and sometimes its the players. We'd rather go thru thi now and adjust for later than the opposite
I'd have to agree..:agreed:
I'm sure these players know how to practice the fundamentals of defense..I mean let's face it...D'Ant don't need to show them how to get your a*s into somebody..how to take away air space on shooters, chase down loose balls..those things are just player effort..which this knick team can be lazy about..
However, D'Ant, need to be able to coach better on the fly, game situation adjustments are not this coaches strength...Yes,
Billups was getting reemed last night in trying to gaurd Nelson....who caught fire...D'Ant, did not even run doubles at him, or better yet, switch T.Douglas who is quicker afoot and can mkeep in close to Nelson...Nelson is not a great shooter when he has somebody in close to him..ala first half, with Douglas gaurding him...So Mike D, needs to buy he Phil Jackson book of coaching on the fly and he needs to make better defensive adjustments..
Tonights game on gaurding CP3 will be a good test of how D'Ant coaches on the fly.:smokin:
MusketeerX
Rotation player
Noah hasn't played much of the year for the Bulls and is still a bit undersized. But, no one is comparing just the front court. The Bulls in my opinion have one stellar defender in Luol Deng. The rest of the teams is average or below. Noah is a hustler, but I don't think a great defender.
The team we had was built around D'Antoni's system... The team now was blown up a bit for it, but all of D'Antoni's teams have had more offensive players over defensive players by a wide margin. That is fault of the system. So, yes, I think it is more than fair to compare.
Tom also gets defense out of his players they didn't know they had, and has a system in place to deal with weaknesses in each player's defensive game. D'Antoni needs to learn those for this new group of players, but never learned it for the ones before the trade deadline.
When we had a Big that could block and grab some boards, D'Antoni benched him for two months... It was only after a ridiculous game that D'Antoni finally figured out that he should play the kid...
D'Antoni doesn't emphasize D -- are you denying that Toons?
Tom Thibodeau would get better defense out of our team. Are you denying that Toons?
Toons
is the Bo$$
brother i dont care if we had a jesus himself coaching, with williams on howard, we are not in a good position to win a game. Why? because we dont have the players to guard howard.
Noah averages 13 and 11 in a rough season dealing with injury and a new inside presence. Noah averages 1.1 steals per game and almost 2 blocks per. Noah IS an elite defender. (not a perimeter defender, but for his position, he is up there with the best)
I have seen him emphasize Defense, so its hard to say he doesnt. I believe that defense is mostly effort. If the effort is there consistently, (we have seen it in spurts) we would be called a 'defensive' team.
If thibs was here, nah....we would still be where we are defensively. If he brought noah with him....now....diff story
Noah averages 13 and 11 in a rough season dealing with injury and a new inside presence. Noah averages 1.1 steals per game and almost 2 blocks per. Noah IS an elite defender. (not a perimeter defender, but for his position, he is up there with the best)
I have seen him emphasize Defense, so its hard to say he doesnt. I believe that defense is mostly effort. If the effort is there consistently, (we have seen it in spurts) we would be called a 'defensive' team.
If thibs was here, nah....we would still be where we are defensively. If he brought noah with him....now....diff story
so why dont we have a big.???... i guess its walsh fault for giving O'antoni the players he asked for
MusketeerX
Rotation player
Danilo was 6'10 and 225. No way I would play him at center. Noah is undersized.
Look if you really think that Tommy couldn't help our defense, then I am at a loss for words. But, think about this... it wasn't Dwight that got them back into the game last night. It was Ryan Anderson, Nelson, and an utter lack of good defensive rotations off the pick and roll...
I don't know how a coach that is supposed to be the master of the pick and roll can't defend against it or make the proper adjustments after being burned by it time after time...
Let me add that I do think he is a great hustler. Landry Fields type... Would be glad to have him on my team.