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Thread: I don't want CP3 or Howard during 2012's offseason...

  1. #16
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    It's been NY's goal (fans included) to land two stars for years now. We all wanted James, but walking away with both Melo & Amare has became a dream come true for the fans who have continued to dream over the past 10+ years.

    You cant compare the Melo & Amare situation, to the whole adding a 3rd star debate. Every Knick fan knew we had more than enough cap space to add two max contracts. Thats been our plan for 3-5 years now...

    Being realistic, we all knew, or know there was, or will be no chance to add another star. It's foolish to compare the two situations because they have no bearing on one another.

    It's also foolish to throw Fields under the bus for another star. He's been our best rook since god knows when. Basketball has always been a team game, & will always be more than just offensive production. Fields has tough D, he's able to make an impact without the ball, he's an excellent off the ball player, & he's one of the best rebounders as a guard. The kid can become a championship piece, he's a winner
    No one's throwing anyone under no bus & we're not getting Dwight Howard anyway so this discussion is pretty pointless. But just to entertain what you just said, Dwight Howard is the most dominant defensive player in the game today & also the best rebounding big. Kinda counters your own argument if you think Landry Fields can become a championship piece but Dwight Howard somehow can't. Unless I'm misinterpreting your intention.

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    I agree 500%....Howard and we win several championships....take back Felton or someone like that hopefully being given away with those 3 and watch out


    Originally Posted by STAT1
    I don't think we have any realistic shot of landing Dwight Howard, but I think it would be nuts to pass up on the most dominant C in the game just to hold onto Landry Fields & add a few more role players, but that's just me. Add Dwight Howard to Melo & Stat & that's multiple championships guaranteed.

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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    I'll also definitely take a more complete team. Howard would probably be the best one to add on to Melo and A'mare if we did go the three max players route. We'd have a beast on defense, who wouldn't even need to score much to scare the opposing opponents. Howard really could average 8-10 points on our team and that would be major. Also, he stays healthy.

    Still though, I rather not be locked in the cap because of three contracts, and the feeling of a complete team is better for me.
    Only way I could ever possibly fathom getting Dwight into a Knicks uniform is by trading Melo or STAT for him, which I would do either in a heartbeat (& trust me when I say this I have been the most vocal proponent of getting Melo to the Knicks for the past year & STAT is my favorite player). But if you combined Dwight with 1 of our stars & put Chauncey starting PG with them, you'd have the makings for a championship team without a doubt in my mind.

  4. #19
    Veteran KingofNy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    All of this sounds eerily familiar to the same reasoning that people used to argue against trading for Melo this year. The whole "1 Superstar + Role player depth >>>> 2 Superstars + scrubs" argument is now becoming the "2 Superstars + Role player depth >>>> 3 Superstars + scrubs " debate. IMO there isn't a GM in the NBA that would pass up on the opportunity to get Dwight Howard regardless of how many Landry Fields they'd have to trade away. Not that this is even worth much of a debate, we're probably not in any position to acquire the guy next year anyway.
    What happens when one of your stars gets hurt and you have garbage surrounding him? You see my point? I'm not talking about picking up a bunch of Landry Fields... I'm talking about guys that are borderline all-stars that we can get at a 2/1 or 3/1 price. Could you imagine how good we would be if we still had Gallo, Will and the GOV along with Billups, Stat, and Melo? We'd be an instant contender. We could get similar guys to team up with those guys and we'd be nice.

    Don't get me wrong I wouldn't be upset if we got Howard, I just think we'd be better off with better guys surrounding our stars. I think Howard's not BIG enough for NY either... He seems like a Hollywood type guy. He'll be a Laker by the deadline next season...If their is a next season.

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    Originally Posted by KingofNy
    What happens when one of your stars gets hurt and you have garbage surrounding him? You see my point? I'm not talking about picking up a bunch of Landry Fields... I'm talking about guys that are borderline all-stars that we can get at a 2/1 or 3/1 price. Could you imagine how good we would be if we still had Gallo, Will and the GOV along with Billups, Stat, and Melo? We'd be an instant contender. We could get similar guys to team up with those guys and we'd be nice.

    Don't get me wrong I wouldn't be upset if we got Howard, I just think we'd be better off with better guys surrounding our stars. I think Howard's not BIG enough for NY either... He seems like a Hollywood type guy. He'll be a Laker by the deadline next season...If their is a next season.
    Do you think the Miami Heat were concerned about what would happen if D Wade or Lebron got hurt & the other were only left with Bosh, Miller & a bunch of scrubs? I don't. Injuries can happen to anyone, you don't make moves or not make them out of concern that a player might get hurt unless he's had a history of being injured in the past. Making the Antonio McKnee trade for example was the worst trade in Knicks' history because we already knew he was a huge injury risk. Dwight Howard is 1 of the most durable players in the game for crying out loud he's only missed 3 games in his entire 7 yr career, not making a play for him because you're afraid he might get injured is sorta like not signing Albert Pujols to a longterm contract because you're scared he might go on the DL. You can't run a professional sports franchise with that kind of thinking.

  6. #21
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    Do you think the Miami Heat were concerned about what would happen if D Wade or Lebron got hurt & the other were only left with Bosh, Miller & a bunch of scrubs? I don't. Injuries can happen to anyone, you don't make moves or not make them out of concern that a player might get hurt unless he's had a history of being injured in the past. Making the Antonio McKnee trade for example was the worst trade in Knicks' history because we already knew he was a huge injury risk. Dwight Howard is 1 of the most durable players in the game for crying out loud he's only missed 3 games in his entire 7 yr career, not making a play for him because you're afraid he might get injured is sorta like not signing Albert Pujols to a longterm contract because you're scared he might go on the DL. You can't run a professional sports franchise with that kind of thinking.
    But at the same time you do need to plan for contingencies and can't put all your eggs in one basket. Hell, even if they never got injured, our three superstars won't be able to play 40 minutes every game, all season long and throughout the playoffs. We need supporting pieces around them to actually be relevant (ie, not exhausted) come playoff time .

    If we could somehow work some magic and have cap space for said supporting pieces while signing another big name, then that'd be great. But I don't know if it's worth banking everything on that 3rd big name and not having enough left over to cover our own backs.

    That being said, CP3 did look thoroughly depressed today. He's friends with Melo and Stat and I'm sure he was thinking "I could be playing with those guys instead of wasting away in NO." It would be ridiculous if we could land him and still have enough to fill in the rest of the pieces; I'd probably cream my pants.

  7. #22
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    Do you think the Miami Heat were concerned about what would happen if D Wade or Lebron got hurt & the other were only left with Bosh, Miller & a bunch of scrubs? I don't. Injuries can happen to anyone, you don't make moves or not make them out of concern that a player might get hurt unless he's had a history of being injured in the past. Making the Antonio McKnee trade for example was the worst trade in Knicks' history because we already knew he was a huge injury risk. Dwight Howard is 1 of the most durable players in the game for crying out loud he's only missed 3 games in his entire 7 yr career, not making a play for him because you're afraid he might get injured is sorta like not signing Albert Pujols to a longterm contract because you're scared he might go on the DL. You can't run a professional sports franchise with that kind of thinking.
    You have to worry about that. If you're the Miami Heat right now and Lebron gets injured for the season there's no chance in hell they make it out of the first round. If they had just two stars and one goes out but they have a bunch of borderline all-stars surrounding them and good role players off the bench they still would have a shot. The problem is they have no money other than to hire guys for the vets minimum.

    Who really knows who's right or wrong here, I'm just guessing. IMO it's going to be a moot point anyways because I've heard nothing but rumors about Howard wanting to go to LA. Like I said earlier I wouldn't be upset if we got him but I just think I PERSONALLY would rather have more talent surrounding 2 all-stars that 3 all-stars and not much other help.

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by Sons of Thunder
    But at the same time you do need to plan for contingencies and can't put all your eggs in one basket. Hell, even if they never got injured, our three superstars won't be able to play 40 minutes every game, all season long and throughout the playoffs. We need supporting pieces around them to actually be relevant (ie, not exhausted) come playoff time .

    If we could somehow work some magic and have cap space for said supporting pieces while signing another big name, then that'd be great. But I don't know if it's worth banking everything on that 3rd big name and not having enough left over to cover our own backs.
    Originally Posted by Sons of Thunder

    That being said, CP3 did look thoroughly depressed today. He's friends with Melo and Stat and I'm sure he was thinking "I could be playing with those guys instead of wasting away in NO." It would be ridiculous if we could land him and still have enough to fill in the rest of the pieces; I'd probably cream my pants.

    Well said. The only other star I could see that would be worth adding is Howard. I don't think I'd put all my eggs into CP3, that's for sure.

  9. #24
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    Originally Posted by KingofNy
    [B]


    Well said. The only other star I could see that would be worth adding is Howard. I don't think I'd put all my eggs into CP3, that's for sure.
    I wonder what the price difference would be between the two. I'm thinking with CP3 there's some chance of cap wiggle room when all's said and done. Howard will probably eat up our entire cap space, no? I've been away from the game for quite a while so forgive me if my theory is totally off.

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by KingofNy
    You have to worry about that. If you're the Miami Heat right now and Lebron gets injured for the season there's no chance in hell they make it out of the first round. If they had just two stars and one goes out but they have a bunch of borderline all-stars surrounding them and good role players off the bench they still would have a shot. The problem is they have no money other than to hire guys for the vets minimum.

    Who really knows who's right or wrong here, I'm just guessing. IMO it's going to be a moot point anyways because I've heard nothing but rumors about Howard wanting to go to LA. Like I said earlier I wouldn't be upset if we got him but I just think I PERSONALLY would rather have more talent surrounding 2 all-stars that 3 all-stars and not much other help.
    I disagree. I think even without Lebron that team is still good enough to easily beat any #7 or 8 seed they face. You seriously think the Sixers or Pacers are gonna present any kind of real challenge to a team of Wade, Bosh, Bibby, Miller, Big Z, Dampier & the rest of their role player squad?

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    Originally Posted by Sons of Thunder
    But at the same time you do need to plan for contingencies and can't put all your eggs in one basket. Hell, even if they never got injured, our three superstars won't be able to play 40 minutes every game, all season long and throughout the playoffs. We need supporting pieces around them to actually be relevant (ie, not exhausted) come playoff time .

    If we could somehow work some magic and have cap space for said supporting pieces while signing another big name, then that'd be great. But I don't know if it's worth banking everything on that 3rd big name and not having enough left over to cover our own backs.

    That being said, CP3 did look thoroughly depressed today. He's friends with Melo and Stat and I'm sure he was thinking "I could be playing with those guys instead of wasting away in NO." It would be ridiculous if we could land him and still have enough to fill in the rest of the pieces; I'd probably cream my pants.
    I think CP3 is a risk because of his knees. I can understand not wanting to bank your entire future on him, but when you have already 2 other mega-stars on the team you're not faced with that dilemma. You already have 2 contingencies in place with multiple superstars on the same team. I would still make a play for him regardless if we had to trade Landry Fields or not, role players like him are of little consequence to me as cold as that sounds & I do like Landry a lot but we're talking about elite players here afterall.

    To me, Dwight Howard is an exception to every rule, you absolutely move Heaven & Earth to get a player of his calibre, even if it means having to trade STAT or Melo to get him I would do it. If you think what we gave up for Melo was anything to base a judgement on it's gonna take more to get Dwight Howard from the Magic in any trade. That's why I don't think we have any shot of getting him. I think he's gonna end up with the Lakers playing next to Kobe, or maybe Deron Williams gets lured to Orlando to play with him in a devastating PnR tandem in their last ditch attempt to keep him there longterm? I don't think Deron is gonna stay in NJ beyond this year. Would love to get him to the Knicks too, but with little left to deal we really need the CBA to have a higher cap limit in order to have any realistic shot at landing another megastar to complete our big 3 picture for the longterm future.

    For now I'm perfectly happy with Chauncey Billups at the PG, I think he's just about the best option we could have come up with outside of any of the big names that will turn FA in 2012. Would not be upset at all if he were our consolation prize in all this after next season & we ended up extending him for another season for less money & adding other pieces around the team with whatever's left over either.

  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    I disagree. I think even without Lebron that team is still good enough to easily beat any #7 or 8 seed they face. You seriously think the Sixers or Pacers are gonna present any kind of real challenge to a team of Wade, Bosh, Bibby, Miller, Big Z, Dampier & the rest of their role player squad?
    I dunno because I really don't consider Bosh that much of an All-star. I think he's severely overrated. Amare>Bosh by a mile. Can the Heat win the first round without Lebron? Maybe...But I highly doubt they make it much further... Also, Philly's been looking good lately, they've really stepped their D up.

  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    I think CP3 is a risk because of his knees. I can understand not wanting to bank your entire future on him, but when you have already 2 other mega-stars on the team you're not faced with that dilemma. You already have 2 contingencies in place with multiple superstars on the same team. I would still make a play for him regardless if we had to trade Landry Fields or not, role players like him are of little consequence to me as cold as that sounds & I do like Landry a lot but we're talking about elite players here afterall.

    To me, Dwight Howard is an exception to every rule, you absolutely move Heaven & Earth to get a player of his calibre, even if it means having to trade STAT or Melo to get him I would do it. If you think what we gave up for Melo was anything to base a judgement on it's gonna take more to get Dwight Howard from the Magic in any trade. That's why I don't think we have any shot of getting him. I think he's gonna end up with the Lakers playing next to Kobe, or maybe Deron Williams gets lured to Orlando to play with him in a devastating PnR tandem in their last ditch attempt to keep him there longterm? I don't think Deron is gonna stay in NJ beyond this year. Would love to get him to the Knicks too, but with little left to deal we really need the CBA to have a higher cap limit in order to have any realistic shot at landing another megastar to complete our big 3 picture for the longterm future.

    For now I'm perfectly happy with Chauncey Billups at the PG, I think he's just about the best option we could have come up with outside of any of the big names that will turn FA in 2012. Would not be upset at all if he were our consolation prize in all this after next season & we ended up extending him for another season for less money & adding other pieces around the team with whatever's left over either.
    I see Orlando trading for CP3 this offseason. The Nets are banking hard on
    Deron being the face of their franchise for the move to Brooklyn. I think they're going to hold on to him as long as they can in hopes of him just changing his mind and staying there. It's not looking too good for the Nets now and I can't be happier. I never hated them until they started playing stupid games with us and now I hope they crash and burn.

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    Originally Posted by KingofNy
    I dunno because I really don't consider Bosh that much of an All-star. I think he's severely overrated. Amare>Bosh by a mile. Can the Heat win the first round without Lebron? Maybe...But I highly doubt they make it much further... Also, Philly's been looking good lately, they've really stepped their D up.
    I agree Bosh is certainly not a superstar, but he's definitely legit. I just don't see how a team with D Wade, Bosh & the rest of the Heat roster isn't good enough to advance but a team of Iguodala, a past his prime Elton Brand & a bunch of inexperienced young role players is. I think the Knicks would definitely have enough to beat the Heat w/o Lebron though, so if they fell to #3 in the standings they'd be in for trouble in the 1st round if we ended up facing them. But anyway, Lebron is another 1 of the most durable players in the game so planning for that type of contingency is kinda moot. If anything they'd be without D Wade & even still Lebron, Bosh & the rest of that cast would be good enough to beat just about any team in the NBA other than maybe the Lakers & Celtics. This is what having great players affords you, insurance policies against injury to a key player. Melo & Billups have gotten the Nuggets to the WCF against tougher competition without STAT & only got beat by the eventual champion Lakers in 6 games. If you were to add a player like Dwight to that Nuggets team in place of Nene & some of their other role players, who do you think would have won the championship that year? To me it wouldn't have even been a question, the Nuggets would have beaten the Lakers & the Celtics in the Finals. The same would hold true if Dwight were ever to somehow end up playing in NY next to Melo or STAT & Chauncey IMO. But again, it's not happening so we're probably just wasting our time talking about it. Time for bed anyway.

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    Originally Posted by KingofNy
    I see Orlando trading for CP3 this offseason. The Nets are banking hard on
    Deron being the face of their franchise for the move to Brooklyn. I think they're going to hold on to him as long as they can in hopes of him just changing his mind and staying there. It's not looking too good for the Nets now and I can't be happier. I never hated them until they started playing stupid games with us and now I hope they crash and burn.
    I can see ORL making a push for CP3 too, him & Dwight would be devastating together. But I still think Deron is out of NJ after this season, it doesn't matter how much they want to keep him unless they can convince another megastar to come join him in NJ next year then there's no way Deron is gonna stick around. At most I can see someone like Zach Randolph being their answer to pair him up with, & that's not gonna be good enough to keep him in Jersey through another season while they wait to move to Brooklyn IMO. Even if they decide to target lesser players like Nene, Tyson Chandler or Tayshaun Prince this summer, I don't think that's gonna be a good enough team to get Deron to commit to that franchise for another 5 year deal. Maybe if Yao Ming were healthy & NJ succeeded in landing him then it would change Deron's mind about staying on.

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