Impressive Stats: Our Defense Wins Games

Red

TYPE-A
New York went 10-for-22 from 3-point range and improved to 19-4 when making at least 10 3s, and the 19-point margin of victory was the fourth-largest of the season and the biggest since the Knicks defeated Phoenix by 25 on Jan. 7.

The Knicks also improved to 16-2 when holding an opponent to less than 100 points, 8-6 in the second night of back-to-backs, 15-7 when outrebounding their opponent, and 15-7 in the last 22 games at the Garden, which was sold out for the 18th consecutive time.

This is our key to winning in the post season. I have to say I underestimated our ability to play defense consistently, but 18 games so far (granted with a varied line-up) that we have held the oopositon under 100 might be over looked.

Please Mike, concentrate on adjusting to this stat (and the rebounding stat) consistently by post season time. The East won't know what hit'em.

I see coach adjusting his approach

1. Using more players in rotation
2. Using better defenders
3. Resting players more
4. Scrapping SSOL for more ISO plays andslowing things down

Jeffries grabbed 4 offensive boards (6 total), no points
Melo is avg'ing 26 in five games so far

And check this out...

TURNING POINTS: A two-point Knicks lead quickly grew to 12 late in the second-quarter thanks to six quick points from Anthony and two each from Douglas and starting center Ronny Turiaf. The Hornets helped the Knicks' cause with two turnovers in the 13-3 run. The Knicks coasted after the half, leading by double figures for all but 18 seconds of the final two quarters. It got so bad midway through the fourth that the fans started chanting for a Roger Mason appearance. Mike D'Antoni obliged, and the crowd exploded when Mason hit a three with a little over a minute to play.

DIFFERENCE MAKER: In addition to Douglas, Amare Stoudemire finished with 24 points on 10-of-9 shooting and Anthony had 22, hitting 8 of his 18 shots. Sharpshooter Shawne Williams had 16 points and made four of his six 3-point attempts.

WHAT'S NEXT: If you're curious to see how quickly this team is building chemistry, look no further than Friday night's game home game against the Cavaliers. Last Friday, the Knicks traveled to Cleveland fell to the 11-win Cavs in embarrassing fashion. They were outrebounded by 20 and looked out of synch on offense (41 percent shooting) in a 115-109 loss, their second to the Cavaliers this season. It doesn?t seem like they will have Billups (thigh) available for Friday's home game but they should be able to bounce back against the Cavs, who are 3-27 on the road. The Knicks hit the road to take on the Hawks on Sunday night and return home to play the Jazz on Monday night.

Maybe coach is coming around...idk

But what I do know is "half the game is 90% mental"-Yogi and if coach can instill confidence in our roll players and bench...

Watch out!
 

Red

TYPE-A
I'm looking for more impressive stats.

Please feel free to add some you feel are telling or important.
 

Red

TYPE-A
We're undefeated (2-0) at home since Melo's arrival and donning our throwbacks!
 

Blas

Benchwarmer
I like the breakdown.

As far as the coach coming around, who knows what the reasons are we aren't there.

We can only speculate its:

1) Change of heart
2) Worried about his job
3) Personnel

I would like to think #3. We got JJ a good defender, Billups is a good defender, Turiaf has been healthier. By getting JJ we can give Turiaf and STAT rest.

In no way am I saying we are going to stop the like with Dwight with JJ, but I think its a better situation then before.

Defensively JJ was better then > Mozgov and AR (I like Mozgov its not hate).
Defensively Billups > Felton. I think this is due to Billups having a better BBall IQ then Felton (I like Felton, again not hate).

Now if JJ and Billups are both together hopefully we will see maybe even more defense out there.

And maybe 1 & 2 have something to do with it. Maybe Mike D figured out a way to make SSOL incorporate more D and realized this is needed to win a ring. Maybe Walsh and Dolan gave him an end all be all. Win or its your job and he is scared into trying something "desperate" in his eyes and starts preaching D.

Who knows. Unfortunately we aren't there.
 

p0nder

Starter
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Red again"

a good analysis. I have seen a lot of adjusting by the coach to our roster. He runs a lot of ISO plays and even employs a triangle set too. the SSOL is evolved now to something that barely resembles the former system he ran in PHX.

The Defense has been huge, but i am giving credit where it is due here and that is to the players. STAT and Melo both have publicly come out saying that they want defense to be a focus of the knicks and they are leading by example. Billups helps a lot here as well, he knows that defense is effort and he gets the players to buy into the "protect the rim" ideal.

I've been seeing a new attitude out of STAT since the trade. he honestly HATES seeing the ball go in. In the last few games notice when after a whistle or at the end of a Q when players will take shots at the net that won't count, STAT will go out of his way to stay near the basket and goal tend the shot. He just flat out doesn't want ANYONE to put that ball in his basket.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
The Knicks are 0-5 when they score under 90pts. Seems like we are more suited for a higher octane offense with a defensive balance.
 
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iSaYughh

Starter
The Knicks are 0-5 when they score under 90pts. Seems like we are more suited for a higher octane offense with a defensive balance.

Yep. Bingo! It's essential we sacrifice "defense".

What would happen if the Celtic fans incessantly bitched because their team didn't score enough points, and didn't look good enough and slick enough on offense. And the coach listened, and they played a style to be more offensively fluid.

The (erroneous) reaction by some: 'but the celtics are better and a winning team; defense rules, they don't need to change'.

This is both hypocritical, and arbitrary.

One, of course they are better -- they have much better players.

Two, they haven't one a title since that one, and aren't exactly favorites to win another. Don't you need to be winning chips to validate the system being used?

Three, the same people to say that are likely the same ones who, in moments of weakness (ie honesty) admit that even if we are winning they would bemoan MDA and our system of play, "just because....*I* don't 'like' it"

Either a coach and a system are improving a team, by

Winning more games than expected and would otherwise be thought to have won

Players playing better than expected

Having an element of Rape Mode, where in a given span of time you can dominate and *smother* other teams; especially, teams otherwise, and normally superior to yours.

By the very facts of KO member statements themselves, not to mention most every analyst in the country, every single one of these metrics has been met in our club.

Of course, at the end of the day, some people have very personal feelings towards some things, and the goal post becomes a personal chew toy to move around and create a (non-real) world to live in, and debate out of.

Hence, the indefinite disagreements and unsolvable issues: personal non-real bubbles, meeting actual reality.
 

moneyg

Starter
This is our key to winning in the post season. I have to say I underestimated our ability to play defense consistently, but 18 games so far (granted with a varied line-up) that we have held the oopositon under 100 might be over looked.

Please Mike, concentrate on adjusting to this stat (and the rebounding stat) consistently by post season time. The East won't know what hit'em.

I see coach adjusting his approach

1. Using more players in rotation
2. Using better defenders
3. Resting players more
4. Scrapping SSOL for more ISO plays andslowing things down

Jeffries grabbed 4 offensive boards (6 total), no points
Melo is avg'ing 26 in five games so far

And check this out...



Maybe coach is coming around...idk

But what I do know is "half the game is 90% mental"-Yogi and if coach can instill confidence in our roll players and bench...

Watch out!


makes sense to me..

the funny thing is that most of these posters have claimed that we will be worse defensivly with melo and billups versus the players we trade away...however.. i think its our new players midset that has force o'antoni to adjust to their skillset... ISO, etc....i think he is realizing his SSOL offense wont cut it..

if thats the case.. i dont mind having him around.. the minute he reverses.. he got to go....
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
Nope. People claimed he was unable to.

No, people, including myself, claimed he wouldn't. He doesn't seem to have much of a choice at this point. Hey, if he comes around, then he comes around. I'll be cheering for joy because of it. But, defense is necessary to make any kind of push in the play-offs.

The Knicks are 0-5 when they score under 90pts. Seems like we are more suited for a higher octane offense with a defensive balance.

Not too many teams are going to win when they score below 90 points. But, I agree. We need to adjust our game to be like the Spurs. They are a balanced above-average defensive team, who have picked up the speed of their offense. They are averaging 103 ppg this season. They are holding teams to 96 ppg. That is where the Knicks should aim to be. We don't need 120 point a games to win.

But as long as our point differential is less than a point, we are not going to get past the first round in the playoffs.
 

KingofNy

Starter
I like the breakdown.

As far as the coach coming around, who knows what the reasons are we aren't there.

We can only speculate its:

1) Change of heart
2) Worried about his job
3) Personnel

I think it's a mix of all three. He's definitely worried about his job. He said in an interview yesterday that when the Knicks lose now he can't sleep at night. This situation now (having 2 stars) has him really stressed as if the Knicks don't perform well he knows he will no longer have a job. I don't think there's going to be a big market for a coach that stresses no D. I wouldn't want him anywhere my team if I was a GM or owner.

Maybe he'll change my perceptions of him but as of right now I have seen ZERO consistency with his coaching abilities.... Some nights he coaches great and then other's he'll coach terribly and we'll lose to teams like the Cavs.
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
The Knicks are 0-5 when they score under 90pts. Seems like we are more suited for a higher octane offense with a defensive balance.

Yep! What I've been waiting for. As close to an equilibrium as we've been since I can recall.

Yep. Bingo! It's essential we sacrifice "defense".

What would happen if the Celtic fans incessantly bitched because their team didn't score enough points, and didn't look good enough and slick enough on offense. And the coach listened, and they played a style to be more offensively fluid.

The (erroneous) reaction by some: 'but the celtics are better and a winning team; defense rules, they don't need to change'.

This is both hypocritical, and arbitrary.

One, of course they are better -- they have much better players.

Two, they haven't one a title since that one, and aren't exactly favorites to win another. Don't you need to be winning chips to validate the system being used?

Three, the same people to say that are likely the same ones who, in moments of weakness (ie honesty) admit that even if we are winning they would bemoan MDA and our system of play, "just because....*I* don't 'like' it"

Either a coach and a system are improving a team, by

Winning more games than expected and would otherwise be thought to have won

Players playing better than expected

Having an element of Rape Mode, where in a given span of time you can dominate and *smother* other teams; especially, teams otherwise, and normally superior to yours.

By the very facts of KO member statements themselves, not to mention most every analyst in the country, every single one of these metrics has been met in our club.

Of course, at the end of the day, some people have very personal feelings towards some things, and the goal post becomes a personal chew toy to move around and create a (non-real) world to live in, and debate out of.

Hence, the indefinite disagreements and unsolvable issues: personal non-real bubbles, meeting actual reality.

Nice.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Yep. Bingo! It's essential we sacrifice "defense".

What would happen if the Celtic fans incessantly bitched because their team didn't score enough points, and didn't look good enough and slick enough on offense. And the coach listened, and they played a style to be more offensively fluid.

The (erroneous) reaction by some: 'but the celtics are better and a winning team; defense rules, they don't need to change'.

This is both hypocritical, and arbitrary.

One, of course they are better -- they have much better players.

Two, they haven't one a title since that one, and aren't exactly favorites to win another. Don't you need to be winning chips to validate the system being used?

Three, the same people to say that are likely the same ones who, in moments of weakness (ie honesty) admit that even if we are winning they would bemoan MDA and our system of play, "just because....*I* don't 'like' it"

Either a coach and a system are improving a team, by

Winning more games than expected and would otherwise be thought to have won

Players playing better than expected

Having an element of Rape Mode, where in a given span of time you can dominate and *smother* other teams; especially, teams otherwise, and normally superior to yours.

By the very facts of KO member statements themselves, not to mention most every analyst in the country, every single one of these metrics has been met in our club.

Of course, at the end of the day, some people have very personal feelings towards some things, and the -goal post becomes a personal chew toy to move around and create a (non-real) world to live in, and debate out of.

Hence, the indefinite disagreements and unsolvable issues: personal non-real bubbles, meeting actual reality.

Facking awesome post dude..
 

Red

TYPE-A
Bumped. Check it out
N.Y. Post: Charles Wenzelberg

In the eight games the Knicks have played since acquiring Carmelo Anthony on Feb. 22, both their overall scoring and their overall defense have improved.
The Knicks played 54 games before packaging Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov to Denver for Anthony, Chauncey Billups and Anthony Carter.
To be fair, there aren't a ton of conclusions that can be drawn yet, simply because eight games isn't a big sample size (of either the Knicks or their competition).
And, more important, Billups -- one of the team's three best players -- has played in only four due to a thigh injury.
In fact, if you include Jared Jeffries' addition, the Knicks have yet to play a single game since the trade with their entire new corps.
"Once Chauncey gets back, then we can really figure out chemistry on both ends of the court," Amar'e Stoudemire said.
Still, the Knicks -- who are 5-3 since the deal, and have won two straight heading into tonight's game against the Grizzlies in Memphis -- have played four playoff teams since the trade, beating the Heat, Hawks and Hornets while losing to the Magic.
They've also lost twice to woeful Cleveland.
"I think we've shown glimpses of how good we can be," Jeffries said.
Specifically, since the deal, the Knicks offense statistically has been better, which was expected considering the team added a premier scorer in Anthony, who's averaged 25.9 points since arriving.
Not to mention that Billups has averaged 23.3 points in his four games.
And even Stoudemire has seen his production go up -- the Knicks' MVP was averaging 26.1 points, 8.4 rebounds and 51 percent shooting pre-trade, and has averaged 27.3 points, 6.9 rebounds and shot 55 percent post-trade.
As a team before the deal, the Knicks were averaging 106.2 points on 46.0 percent shooting. Since the trade, they're averaging 108.6 points on a slightly better 47.2 percent shooting.
And one pleasant development has been the 3-point accuracy. On the day of the trade, coach Mike D'Antoni admitted shooting was an issue. The Knicks, after all, had just dealt Gallinari and Chandler, two of their best deep threats.
Yet since the trade, the Knicks have shot 37.8 percent from three, up from their 36.5 percent beforehand.
"Shawne Williams is probably the lightning rod if he can keep knocking down threes," D'Antoni said.
"But Chauncey's going to knock down threes. Toney [Douglas], he'll knock down threes. Landry Fields is definitely a good shooter. So I don't think it's a concern. I think we've got enough."
Also offensively, the Knicks are getting to the free-throw line more. Pre-trade, they averaged 24.9 attempts per game. They're at 27.6 since landing Anthony and Co.
As for their defense, the Knicks are, surprisingly, appreciably better since the deal. Pre-trade, they were surrendering 105.8 points. Post-trade? They're at 102.5.
However, their defensive field-goal percentage is only slightly better -- 46.9 percent before, 45.9 percent after -- and their defensive 3-point percentage (37.2 before, 36.8 after) is almost identical.
The Knicks do continue to be out-rebounded. Pre-trade, they were getting beaten on the boards by an average of 44.4 to 41.1 each game. Since the deal, it's 41.8 to 39.9.
"I think we're a lot better now than where we were, and we're getting better all the time," D'Antoni said.
"I think our defense is getting a lot more solid, especially since we've added Jared. But still a ways to go.
"I think the potential's there. I think we can be as good as we want to be. I think we can be a top team. Whether we can get it all done this year or not, we'll see. But they've really bought into it. And we're playing pretty well."
 

STAT1

Starter
Our team is appreciably better since the trade. Even though the offensive improvement has been minimal when you see the actual #'s, the added value of having 2 elite level closers like Melo & Billups on the team to help take the pressure off of STAT's shoulders in crunchtime is gonna prove to be invaluable in the playoffs. As for any fears that making the Melo trade would make us worse defensively, I think the #'s prove otherwise. Role players like AC & Shelden have added a lot to our bench depth whereas most people considered them complete afterthoughts in the deal.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Our team is appreciably better since the trade. Even though the offensive improvement has been minimal when you see the actual #'s, the added value of having 2 elite level closers like Melo & Billups on the team to help take the pressure off of STAT's shoulders in crunchtime is gonna prove to be invaluable in the playoffs. As for any fears that making the Melo trade would make us worse defensively, I think the #'s prove otherwise. Role players like AC & Shelden have added a lot to our bench depth whereas most people considered them complete afterthoughts in the deal.

I agree there are many intangibles that aren't necessarily reflected in the stats.

As you said, the ability to close out with bonified finishers

Leadership

Accountability

And the use of our depth which coach seems to be ok with

Can't stress the advantages of slowing down the offense enough with these iso players, and having veteran savvy. Less mistakes and the ability to either stay in games or come back and not feel out of it.

Vets like Melo, Billups and Carter make less mistakes, and Jeffries and Fields really have their roles cut out for them, they can do what they do best.

I predict ECF, no emotions or reactions inferred.
 

KBlack25

Starter
No, people, including myself, claimed he wouldn't. He doesn't seem to have much of a choice at this point. Hey, if he comes around, then he comes around. I'll be cheering for joy because of it. But, defense is necessary to make any kind of push in the play-offs.

Before you joined the board last month, yes, people said D'Antoni was "unable" to adapt.
 
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