Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 53

Thread: What a defensive coach can do for you

  1. #16
    is the Bo$$ Toons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Bahamas
    Posts
    2,379
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    Oh and Bulls defense last year:

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 105.3 (11th of 30)

    It turns out that the Coach does make you the best defensive team in the NBA.
    look, my point is plain and clear, get the nba all defensive team. let mike dantoni coach them, they still win a ring with defense.

    Now, get the cavs, let popovic coach them, they are at best, 5 games or so more than they are now.

    the bulls are top in defense and in the middle in offense. we are in the middle in defense, and top in offense.....we are opposites, and we have beaten the bulls every time we saw them this year so far.

  2. #17
    is the Bo$$ Toons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Bahamas
    Posts
    2,379
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    With the last comment are you trying to say D'Antoni doesn't know how to properly coach defense (checkers vs. chess). )
    no, im saying, give mike the spurs, give pop the knicks. who wins more games?

  3. #18
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by Toons
    look, my point is plain and clear, get the nba all defensive team. let mike dantoni coach them, they still win a ring with defense.

    Now, get the cavs, let popovic coach them, they are at best, 5 games or so more than they are now.

    the bulls are top in defense and in the middle in offense. we are in the middle in defense, and top in offense.....we are opposites, and we have beaten the bulls every time we saw them this year so far.
    They were missing star players both time, and reg season is not playoffs. I'm not denying that players matter, but I'm also saying that a good defensive coach can make us better than we are.

    Are you saying that Tommy did not make the Bulls the best defensive team in the league??? Are you saying that the players on his team did not increase their stats? Did you not see that Brewer went from 108 to 98???? Really, a coach doesn't matter???

    We are not middle in defense. We are bottom third (by PPG or Points Per 100 Possessions).

  4. #19
    Veteran AmareForPresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Queens,NY
    Posts
    1,791
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Originally Posted by Toons
    look, my point is plain and clear, get the nba all defensive team. let mike dantoni coach them, they still win a ring with defense.

    Now, get the cavs, let popovic coach them, they are at best, 5 games or so more than they are now.

    the bulls are top in defense and in the middle in offense. we are in the middle in defense, and top in offense.....we are opposites, and we have beaten the bulls every time we saw them this year so far.
    How is a player supposed to know how to play defense if their coach does not teach defense?

  5. #20
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by Toons
    no, im saying, give mike the spurs, give pop the knicks. who wins more games?
    Honestly I think the Spurs would be a whole lot worse than they are now... Knicks would be a whole lot better.

    Especially if you gave Popovich the Knicks in the beginning of the year.

  6. #21
    is the Bo$$ Toons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Bahamas
    Posts
    2,379
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    As a team before the deal, the Knicks were averaging 106.2 points on 46.0 percent shooting. Since the trade, they're averaging 108.6 points on a slightly better 47.2 percent shooting.

    does this make dantoni an elite defensive coach? no.
    does it mean he recently discovered a defensive plan? no
    he now has players that play defense.

    im sure you guys play ball. you know when you have a guy that cant shoot for shti, but he plays mad defense, and always gets picked?
    its like that, either u have good defense or you dont.....its just like offense, you have levels of defense. we are faster laterally without gallo, mozgov, and felton. we arent as long, but we never use a tall linup, because we dont have really tall guys.

  7. #22
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    525
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by Toons
    As a team before the deal, the Knicks were averaging 106.2 points on 46.0 percent shooting. Since the trade, they're averaging 108.6 points on a slightly better 47.2 percent shooting.

    does this make dantoni an elite defensive coach? no.
    does it mean he recently discovered a defensive plan? no
    he now has players that play defense.

    im sure you guys play ball. you know when you have a guy that cant shoot for shti, but he plays mad defense, and always gets picked?
    its like that, either u have good defense or you dont.....its just like offense, you have levels of defense. we are faster laterally without gallo, mozgov, and felton. we arent as long, but we never use a tall linup, because we dont have really tall guys.

    If you noticed, the Knicks completely took Marc Gasol out of the game last night with that fast lineup. We have to play to our players' strengths and right now we don't have a start worthy center.

    I definitely agree about good defensive guys. You take Artest or Battier and put them on any team and they'll still play good defense. It doesn't matter what coach they have.

    Lets take one of the best defensive minds in the game with Greg Popovich on his thoughts of Gary Neal. "His defence stinks." And not just because he's a rookie. "He's just bad at it."

    While a coach definitely deserves some praise for defensive schemes and teaching, just switching a coach isn't going to immediately change anything. It takes time, dedication, and team chemistry to improve on defense.

  8. #23
    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Liverpool, England
    Posts
    579
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    Joe the stats are there. Maybe D'antoni is changing his stripesm maybe he's not. A center won't matter w/o a real emphais on defense. The spurs have a simliar team to in style. To have a such an undying commitment to D'Antoni that you are wlling to ignore hard numbers is sad to me.

    Let me remind you that the Bulls put up those numbers w/o Noah for much of the year.
    You really think that a C won't matter? Well then why pillar the Knicks at every turn for not acquiring one?

    Of course a C will matter, it's much easier to play D with a big man in the center to not only block the way but also win rebounds offensively and defensively, that's why C's are so important.

    Also you said it yourself, the Bulls offense is nothing compared to ours, so if you want to talk about that then you have to take it in to consideration in the bigger picture. Who is to say we would score as well as we do without MDA? Everything points to the idea we wouldn't.

    I'm in no way adverse to getting a defensive coach to help out MDA but that doesn't mean I'm going to overlook what he's doing for this team right now and how much our defense is improving.

    Don't talk to me about last night either. I finally got to see the game in full and it's a joke how obvious it is that the umpires were trying to make that a game for the home crowd.

  9. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    FLorida. Thank god for the NBA league pass & MSG network.
    Posts
    1,112
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Until you all actually sit courtside & watch D'Antoni run Knick practices... Don't sit here behind a computer & say "D'Antoni doesn't teach defense". I never played college ball but I played ball from elementary to HS. Never missed a year. My HS coach was pretty good @ teaching defense too. If coach Redding was teaching defense, well, then... You better believe D'Antoni teaches defense as well; but only 10x better.

    Melo is a much better defender than Gallo.

    Jeffries is 10x the defender Mozgov will ever become.

    Douglas & Carer make for a much better defensive duo when compared to Felton & Douglas. Carter is one tough old man. Pesky as pesky come.

    If D'Antoni had this team during the offseason... We'd rank top 15 in defense. No doubt about it. Going from Gallo & Mozgov to Melo & Jeffries was a HUGE upgrade. Adding a big like Williams helps too. Keep in mind... Turiaf has also been hurt.

  10. #25
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    I will try to answer you all iin kind here, but I am on a phone, so excuse my errors. A center does matter, but we have much more significant problems in that our guys are lost when trying to defend as a team. I SHOWED increased numbers on the defensive end that show how Tommy nade each one of his players a better defender. Derrek Rose in particular is having an amazing season on both ends of the court.

    Queens, I. Know he doesn't teach D b/c his players have said as much. I know he doesn't teac D b/c he has said as much. He is n offensive minded coach, for sure, and that is what he will focus on. With our guys, however, they are so talented offensively that we will ge our ponts no matter what.

    The reason I posted about the Spurs is to show an example of the type of pace on offense and defense we need to run. I want a defensive minded head or assistant coach as I believe it will propel us to a top team in th league.

    We are doing better defensively (still showing our lapses) b/c we have slowed down the offense. But if you watched last night, we still don't know how to defend a simple pick and roll. A simple solution is to use the Jeffries zone, but for whatever reason he went away from it in the 4th.... we won't shoot like we havein the last 2 games on a nightly basis. We need D to win against the true elite teams... I look forward to tonight's game, on that note. But if you guys believe we get a C and all of a sudden we are a championship team, then you are sorely mistaken. That Memphis team gave us a run for our money withpout Rudy Gay. Their D was great... we were just hitting ridiculous shots. We got lucky wikth the win... D insures that we don't need luck to win.

  11. #26
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by Toons
    yo, a coach doent make you the best defensive team in the nba, the players do. You cant compare the knicks with the two best defensive teams in the league. You can only use them as a marker as to where we want to get. Your observation is valid, just not that big of a deal to me.

    It is also not fair to say the bulls are not a good offensive team, just because they have very good defense. By that note, the spurs arent a good offensive team either? The have rose (mvp pg) boozer (double double) noah (double double), deng (very good wing man) that is a good offensive team. Every team that is good defensively has a good centre. Wait until we have a centre to judge our coach. We are playing checkers and our oponents are playing chess. same board, different pieces....so the chess player looks smarter than the checkers player.
    Not entirely. You can have average defenders on your team but if a coach preaches TEAM defense then they can be better defensively. I think that's the point Musk is making. If there was more emphasis on our team defense then we'd be an elite team right now even though our roster has holes. The last few wins showed that it's possible. Boston & the Spurs might not have the best one on one defenders, but their team defense is excellent. That's where coaching & having a gameplan on the defensive end comes into play.

  12. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    FLorida. Thank god for the NBA league pass & MSG network.
    Posts
    1,112
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Not sure how you can say we "got lucky" with that game when we dominated 3 full quarters of play without Billups, on the road, & they shot like 30 more free throws than us. Wanna talk about luck? They were lucky they didn't lose by 15-20+ points.

    The Knicks aready contenders out of the East. Give us a real center such as Jordan, Dalember or Marc Gasol just to name a few & the Knicks are championship contenders. Do you have any idea how much a true Center would improve our entire defense? By leaps & bounds. It's kind of hard to call D'Antoni the problem when all he does is win. Find me 3 Western Conf coaches or 3 teams that had a better winning % than D'Antoni & the Suns... You won't.

  13. #28
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Not sure how you can say we "got lucky" with that game when we dominated 3 full quarters of play without Billups, on the road, & they shot like 30 more free throws than us. Wanna talk about luck? They were lucky they didn't lose by 15-20+ points.

    The Knicks aready contenders out of the East. Give us a real center such as Jordan, Dalember or Marc Gasol just to name a few & the Knicks are championship contenders. Do you have any idea how much a true Center would improve our entire defense? By leaps & bounds. It's kind of hard to call D'Antoni the problem when all he does is win. Find me 3 Western Conf coaches or 3 teams that had a better winning % than D'Antoni & the Suns... You won't.
    Yes we got lucky, we didn't play D for most of the game, were killed in points in the paint (meaning our 62percent throughout the first 3 Quarters was on jumpshots -- championship teams don't rely on Js to win), and shot 50% from behind the 3pt line. This was very much SSOL and we barely won. Memphis's D was very good. We didn't get to the line... we too a lot of jumpshots. Melo save us from a losss.... God Bless that man.

    We will not shoot like that every game... just won't. A C will help, but it is not the complete answer.... And, dude... let's be realistic... we are not contenders. Not this year. we would need a whole lot of luck for that. We will be, but not this year.

  14. #29
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    And f you don't believe me... I serendiptiously came across this article. You can read the first to analysis blurbs even if ur not an insider.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  15. #30
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,845
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    And f you don't believe me... I serendiptiously came across this article. You can read the first to analysis blurbs even if ur not an insider.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Haha, ya and Bucher is a donkeyassed moron. Broussard -- and really the entire article -- defended the Knicks being able to build a champion with current team. MDA included.

    Bucher got another ass torn into him in this debate. Broussard slapped him around like a pimp to a worthless street ho unable to bring home even a slice cheddar.

    Modest growth by Fields, overall team gelling, get a legit 6th (out of our current crew), and bring in any sort of qualified C....We will contend with the best.

    The questions will begin again tho as Billups realistically will be a 1yr (top talent) but rental player for us next year. And we need to find a new pg within our core, or trade for one...or make a trade for a big team improvement while relying in Douglas (or a 2011 1st round draft choice) to man our PG going forward.

Similar Threads

  1. What has Damntoni Done?
    By Knicksfansince92 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 150
    Last Post: Feb 17, 2011, 22:47
  2. MIKE D plays DEFENSIVE Players so STOPPP THE NONSENSE.
    By DontForgetDerekHarper in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: Jan 18, 2011, 12:25
  3. Playoff Thread
    By Kiyaman in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 270
    Last Post: Jun 18, 2010, 13:37
  4. ESPN rates Dantoni's first 2 seasons as coach
    By nyk_nyk in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: Apr 16, 2010, 14:45
  5. Assistant Ford promoted to replace Ayers
    By KnickFan2080 in forum NBA
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Feb 10, 2004, 14:00

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •