What a defensive coach can do for you

Toons

is the Bo$$
As a team before the deal, the Knicks were averaging 106.2 points on 46.0 percent shooting. Since the trade, they're averaging 108.6 points on a slightly better 47.2 percent shooting.

does this make dantoni an elite defensive coach? no.
does it mean he recently discovered a defensive plan? no
he now has players that play defense.

im sure you guys play ball. you know when you have a guy that cant shoot for shti, but he plays mad defense, and always gets picked?
its like that, either u have good defense or you dont.....its just like offense, you have levels of defense. we are faster laterally without gallo, mozgov, and felton. we arent as long, but we never use a tall linup, because we dont have really tall guys.
 

iJoe

Rotation player
As a team before the deal, the Knicks were averaging 106.2 points on 46.0 percent shooting. Since the trade, they're averaging 108.6 points on a slightly better 47.2 percent shooting.

does this make dantoni an elite defensive coach? no.
does it mean he recently discovered a defensive plan? no
he now has players that play defense.

im sure you guys play ball. you know when you have a guy that cant shoot for shti, but he plays mad defense, and always gets picked?
its like that, either u have good defense or you dont.....its just like offense, you have levels of defense. we are faster laterally without gallo, mozgov, and felton. we arent as long, but we never use a tall linup, because we dont have really tall guys.


If you noticed, the Knicks completely took Marc Gasol out of the game last night with that fast lineup. We have to play to our players' strengths and right now we don't have a start worthy center.

I definitely agree about good defensive guys. You take Artest or Battier and put them on any team and they'll still play good defense. It doesn't matter what coach they have.

Lets take one of the best defensive minds in the game with Greg Popovich on his thoughts of Gary Neal. "His defence stinks." And not just because he's a rookie. "He's just bad at it."

While a coach definitely deserves some praise for defensive schemes and teaching, just switching a coach isn't going to immediately change anything. It takes time, dedication, and team chemistry to improve on defense.
 

WrongIslander

Rotation player
Joe the stats are there. Maybe D'antoni is changing his stripesm maybe he's not. A center won't matter w/o a real emphais on defense. The spurs have a simliar team to in style. To have a such an undying commitment to D'Antoni that you are wlling to ignore hard numbers is sad to me.

Let me remind you that the Bulls put up those numbers w/o Noah for much of the year.

You really think that a C won't matter? Well then why pillar the Knicks at every turn for not acquiring one?

Of course a C will matter, it's much easier to play D with a big man in the center to not only block the way but also win rebounds offensively and defensively, that's why C's are so important.

Also you said it yourself, the Bulls offense is nothing compared to ours, so if you want to talk about that then you have to take it in to consideration in the bigger picture. Who is to say we would score as well as we do without MDA? Everything points to the idea we wouldn't.

I'm in no way adverse to getting a defensive coach to help out MDA but that doesn't mean I'm going to overlook what he's doing for this team right now and how much our defense is improving.

Don't talk to me about last night either. I finally got to see the game in full and it's a joke how obvious it is that the umpires were trying to make that a game for the home crowd.
 
Until you all actually sit courtside & watch D'Antoni run Knick practices... Don't sit here behind a computer & say "D'Antoni doesn't teach defense". I never played college ball but I played ball from elementary to HS. Never missed a year. My HS coach was pretty good @ teaching defense too. If coach Redding was teaching defense, well, then... You better believe D'Antoni teaches defense as well; but only 10x better.

Melo is a much better defender than Gallo.

Jeffries is 10x the defender Mozgov will ever become.

Douglas & Carer make for a much better defensive duo when compared to Felton & Douglas. Carter is one tough old man. Pesky as pesky come.

If D'Antoni had this team during the offseason... We'd rank top 15 in defense. No doubt about it. Going from Gallo & Mozgov to Melo & Jeffries was a HUGE upgrade. Adding a big like Williams helps too. Keep in mind... Turiaf has also been hurt.
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
I will try to answer you all iin kind here, but I am on a phone, so excuse my errors. A center does matter, but we have much more significant problems in that our guys are lost when trying to defend as a team. I SHOWED increased numbers on the defensive end that show how Tommy nade each one of his players a better defender. Derrek Rose in particular is having an amazing season on both ends of the court.

Queens, I. Know he doesn't teach D b/c his players have said as much. I know he doesn't teac D b/c he has said as much. He is n offensive minded coach, for sure, and that is what he will focus on. With our guys, however, they are so talented offensively that we will ge our ponts no matter what.

The reason I posted about the Spurs is to show an example of the type of pace on offense and defense we need to run. I want a defensive minded head or assistant coach as I believe it will propel us to a top team in th league.

We are doing better defensively (still showing our lapses) b/c we have slowed down the offense. But if you watched last night, we still don't know how to defend a simple pick and roll. A simple solution is to use the Jeffries zone, but for whatever reason he went away from it in the 4th.... we won't shoot like we havein the last 2 games on a nightly basis. We need D to win against the true elite teams... I look forward to tonight's game, on that note. But if you guys believe we get a C and all of a sudden we are a championship team, then you are sorely mistaken. That Memphis team gave us a run for our money withpout Rudy Gay. Their D was great... we were just hitting ridiculous shots. We got lucky wikth the win... D insures that we don't need luck to win.
 

knicksman20

Benchwarmer
yo, a coach doent make you the best defensive team in the nba, the players do. You cant compare the knicks with the two best defensive teams in the league. You can only use them as a marker as to where we want to get. Your observation is valid, just not that big of a deal to me.

It is also not fair to say the bulls are not a good offensive team, just because they have very good defense. By that note, the spurs arent a good offensive team either? The have rose (mvp pg) boozer (double double) noah (double double), deng (very good wing man) that is a good offensive team. Every team that is good defensively has a good centre. Wait until we have a centre to judge our coach. We are playing checkers and our oponents are playing chess. same board, different pieces....so the chess player looks smarter than the checkers player.

Not entirely. You can have average defenders on your team but if a coach preaches TEAM defense then they can be better defensively. I think that's the point Musk is making. If there was more emphasis on our team defense then we'd be an elite team right now even though our roster has holes. The last few wins showed that it's possible. Boston & the Spurs might not have the best one on one defenders, but their team defense is excellent. That's where coaching & having a gameplan on the defensive end comes into play.
 
Not sure how you can say we "got lucky" with that game when we dominated 3 full quarters of play without Billups, on the road, & they shot like 30 more free throws than us. Wanna talk about luck? They were lucky they didn't lose by 15-20+ points.

The Knicks aready contenders out of the East. Give us a real center such as Jordan, Dalember or Marc Gasol just to name a few & the Knicks are championship contenders. Do you have any idea how much a true Center would improve our entire defense? By leaps & bounds. It's kind of hard to call D'Antoni the problem when all he does is win. Find me 3 Western Conf coaches or 3 teams that had a better winning % than D'Antoni & the Suns... You won't.
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
Not sure how you can say we "got lucky" with that game when we dominated 3 full quarters of play without Billups, on the road, & they shot like 30 more free throws than us. Wanna talk about luck? They were lucky they didn't lose by 15-20+ points.

The Knicks aready contenders out of the East. Give us a real center such as Jordan, Dalember or Marc Gasol just to name a few & the Knicks are championship contenders. Do you have any idea how much a true Center would improve our entire defense? By leaps & bounds. It's kind of hard to call D'Antoni the problem when all he does is win. Find me 3 Western Conf coaches or 3 teams that had a better winning % than D'Antoni & the Suns... You won't.

Yes we got lucky, we didn't play D for most of the game, were killed in points in the paint (meaning our 62percent throughout the first 3 Quarters was on jumpshots -- championship teams don't rely on Js to win), and shot 50% from behind the 3pt line. This was very much SSOL and we barely won. Memphis's D was very good. We didn't get to the line... we too a lot of jumpshots. Melo save us from a losss.... God Bless that man.

We will not shoot like that every game... just won't. A C will help, but it is not the complete answer.... And, dude... let's be realistic... we are not contenders. Not this year. we would need a whole lot of luck for that. We will be, but not this year.
 

iSaYughh

Starter
And f you don't believe me... I serendiptiously came across this article. You can read the first to analysis blurbs even if ur not an insider.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insi...espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=6201148

Haha, ya and Bucher is a donkeyassed moron. Broussard -- and really the entire article -- defended the Knicks being able to build a champion with current team. MDA included.

Bucher got another ass torn into him in this debate. Broussard slapped him around like a pimp to a worthless street ho unable to bring home even a slice cheddar.

Modest growth by Fields, overall team gelling, get a legit 6th (out of our current crew), and bring in any sort of qualified C....We will contend with the best.

The questions will begin again tho as Billups realistically will be a 1yr (top talent) but rental player for us next year. And we need to find a new pg within our core, or trade for one...or make a trade for a big team improvement while relying in Douglas (or a 2011 1st round draft choice) to man our PG going forward.
 

Carmare

Banned
I don't hate the guy, but I'm not a big MDA fan. I've just always preferred defense first coaches. You can bring defense every night, offense requires a hot hand along with execution at times.
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player

Do you realize the articles discuss how bad of a defensive team the Knicks are and how the Knicks have played "lip service" to the idea of playing D, and that Billups is the one who is emphsizing their need for D?
 

knicksman20

Benchwarmer
Not sure how you can say we "got lucky" with that game when we dominated 3 full quarters of play without Billups, on the road, & they shot like 30 more free throws than us. Wanna talk about luck? They were lucky they didn't lose by 15-20+ points.

The Knicks aready contenders out of the East. Give us a real center such as Jordan, Dalember or Marc Gasol just to name a few & the Knicks are championship contenders. Do you have any idea how much a true Center would improve our entire defense? By leaps & bounds. It's kind of hard to call D'Antoni the problem when all he does is win. Find me 3 Western Conf coaches or 3 teams that had a better winning % than D'Antoni & the Suns... You won't.

A center does not solve the problem. Will it help some, yes but DA still has to play the big man which goes against how he normally runs the offense. This team still needs more emphasis on team defense. A better defensive team creates more offensive opportunities as a whole. And THAT's a coaching issue.
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
rebounds also create a lot of offensive opperuntites. hence, a centre

and thats a lack of players issue
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
earl barron would of helped in this area....since we had to give of t moz...

That is one thing that killed me. E.Barron played well for us last year. Better than expected, and maybe better than he is, but well enough where we should have rewarded him... We needed more depth at the center position, and we just let him go to the Bucks???? Why?
 

moneyg

Starter
That is one thing that killed me. E.Barron played well for us last year. Better than expected, and maybe better than he is, but well enough where we should have rewarded him... We needed more depth at the center position, and we just let him go to the Bucks???? Why?


not sure.. i wont totaly blame O'antoni.. but if walsh was responsible for this

he needs a neg rep point...SMH

definately a bigger need than derrick brown
 

WrongIslander

Rotation player
Do you realize the articles discuss how bad of a defensive team the Knicks are and how the Knicks have played "lip service" to the idea of playing D, and that Billups is the one who is emphsizing their need for D?

If that's all you got from them then I would be wasting my time continuing this discussion with you and so .... for that reason ... I'm out.
 

johnnyrose

Benchwarmer
I don't hate the guy, but I'm not a big MDA fan. I've just always preferred defense first coaches. You can bring defense every night, offense requires a hot hand along with execution at times.

I agree..I'm pretty sick and tired of everyone from Barkley to Pippen to Steve kerr Saying we'll never have a chance in a playoff because our atrocious "D"

I understand if the knicks loss by a bit yesterday..and kept it close but it's like they didn't even try yesterday..I mean is this what we going to have to Expect from mike antoni's teams ? And dallas also got back to back games as well. I'm just tired of this Lack of Defense we keep playing, Everytime I think we're finally going to get it together with the defense.

We give up 116 points to cavaliers 129 points to Dallas..195 points to someone else..I mean really .Antoni could preach Defense all he wants. But truth is, He dosen't know defense, So how can he preach Something he knows nothing about.I mean how long are we gonna go through, Maybe next season, Maybe in 3 years or 6 ..it's been like this for 38 years..It's pathetic already.:gony:
 
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