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Thread: What a defensive coach can do for you

  1. #31
    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
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  2. #32
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    I don't hate the guy, but I'm not a big MDA fan. I've just always preferred defense first coaches. You can bring defense every night, offense requires a hot hand along with execution at times.

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by WrongIslander
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    Do you realize the articles discuss how bad of a defensive team the Knicks are and how the Knicks have played "lip service" to the idea of playing D, and that Billups is the one who is emphsizing their need for D?

  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Not sure how you can say we "got lucky" with that game when we dominated 3 full quarters of play without Billups, on the road, & they shot like 30 more free throws than us. Wanna talk about luck? They were lucky they didn't lose by 15-20+ points.

    The Knicks aready contenders out of the East. Give us a real center such as Jordan, Dalember or Marc Gasol just to name a few & the Knicks are championship contenders. Do you have any idea how much a true Center would improve our entire defense? By leaps & bounds. It's kind of hard to call D'Antoni the problem when all he does is win. Find me 3 Western Conf coaches or 3 teams that had a better winning % than D'Antoni & the Suns... You won't.
    A center does not solve the problem. Will it help some, yes but DA still has to play the big man which goes against how he normally runs the offense. This team still needs more emphasis on team defense. A better defensive team creates more offensive opportunities as a whole. And THAT's a coaching issue.

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    is the Bo$$ Toons's Avatar
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    rebounds also create a lot of offensive opperuntites. hence, a centre

    and thats a lack of players issue

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    Originally Posted by Toons
    rebounds also create a lot of offensive opperuntites. hence, a centre

    and thats a lack of players issue
    earl barron would of helped in this area....since we had to give of t moz...

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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    earl barron would of helped in this area....since we had to give of t moz...
    That is one thing that killed me. E.Barron played well for us last year. Better than expected, and maybe better than he is, but well enough where we should have rewarded him... We needed more depth at the center position, and we just let him go to the Bucks???? Why?

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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    That is one thing that killed me. E.Barron played well for us last year. Better than expected, and maybe better than he is, but well enough where we should have rewarded him... We needed more depth at the center position, and we just let him go to the Bucks???? Why?

    not sure.. i wont totaly blame O'antoni.. but if walsh was responsible for this

    he needs a neg rep point...SMH

    definately a bigger need than derrick brown

  9. #39
    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    Do you realize the articles discuss how bad of a defensive team the Knicks are and how the Knicks have played "lip service" to the idea of playing D, and that Billups is the one who is emphsizing their need for D?
    If that's all you got from them then I would be wasting my time continuing this discussion with you and so .... for that reason ... I'm out.

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    Originally Posted by Carmare
    I don't hate the guy, but I'm not a big MDA fan. I've just always preferred defense first coaches. You can bring defense every night, offense requires a hot hand along with execution at times.
    I agree..I'm pretty sick and tired of everyone from Barkley to Pippen to Steve kerr Saying we'll never have a chance in a playoff because our atrocious "D"

    I understand if the knicks loss by a bit yesterday..and kept it close but it's like they didn't even try yesterday..I mean is this what we going to have to Expect from mike antoni's teams ? And dallas also got back to back games as well. I'm just tired of this Lack of Defense we keep playing, Everytime I think we're finally going to get it together with the defense.

    We give up 116 points to cavaliers 129 points to Dallas..195 points to someone else..I mean really .Antoni could preach Defense all he wants. But truth is, He dosen't know defense, So how can he preach Something he knows nothing about.I mean how long are we gonna go through, Maybe next season, Maybe in 3 years or 6 ..it's been like this for 38 years..It's pathetic already.

  11. #41
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Toons
    rebounds also create a lot of offensive opperuntites. hence, a centre

    and thats a lack of players issue
    And DA still has to break away from his comfort zone & play a big man CONSISTENTLY in the rotation. Which he's been reluctant to do. A big man can only do so much if the coach isn't preaching team defense. Team defense helps with boxing out, creating more rebounding opportunities, limiting opposing teams offensive rebounds, & creates steals which lead to fast breaks points. Again THAT"S a coaching issue. Not sure why you don't get that.

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    Originally Posted by knicksman20
    And DA still has to break away from his comfort zone & play a big man CONSISTENTLY in the rotation. Which he's been reluctant to do. A big man can only do so much if the coach isn't preaching team defense. Team defense helps with boxing out, creating more rebounding opportunities, limiting opposing teams offensive rebounds, & creates steals which lead to fast breaks points. Again THAT"S a coaching issue. Not sure why you don't get that.

    dont waste ur time...its obvioss these dudes got some sort of man crush on O'antoni

    there bias leads to them being non-objective and he can do no wrong in their eyes...its always the players..

    simply put... there is no person in the past other than Jrad jefferies that ever said he preaches defense...and he tap dance around that...

    so do the math....

    o'antoni is trying now becuz he has to.. but you cant make a bad jump shooter a good jump shooter overnight.. so as long as he is here.. we got a lot of growing pains to face...

  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    dont waste ur time...its obvioss these dudes got some sort of man crush on O'antoni

    there bias leads to them being non-objective and he can do no wrong in their eyes...its always the players..

    simply put... there is no person in the past other than Jrad jefferies that ever said he preaches defense...and he tap dance around that...

    so do the math....

    o'antoni is trying now becuz he has to.. but you cant make a bad jump shooter a good jump shooter overnight.. so as long as he is here.. we got a lot of growing pains to face...

    Its funny how the most biased people claim everyone else who doesn't agree with them is biased.

    he can do no wrong in their eyes...its always the players..
    You can make the argument that the other side views you as the type that says, the players can do no wrong...... its always Dantoni

    I respect the people who actual do research and back up their claims rather than those who blindly follow media and group bias. Think for yourself and I'll respect you. There are people on both sides of the argument who both have valid claims.

    As soon as you say man crushes and retarded slogans like O'antoni, you've lost all my respect as a debater. Man up and argue facts.

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by iJoe
    Its funny how the most biased people claim everyone else who doesn't agree with them is biased.



    You can make the argument that the other side views you as the type that says, the players can do no wrong...... its always Dantoni

    I respect the people who actual do research and back up their claims rather than those who blindly follow media and group bias. Think for yourself and I'll respect you. There are people on both sides of the argument who both have valid claims.

    As soon as you say man crushes and retarded slogans like O'antoni, you've lost all my respect as a debater. Man up and argue facts.
    FIRST OR ALL
    ive be using O'antoni since that prick was hired, i wanted tom tibs....

    Second... there is no bias to my claims... if O;antoni was a good defensive coach.. i would admit it.. he a pretty good offensive coach.. but thta about it...

    i can only based this on the people who have been around him.. played for him, etc.. and PHX getting rid of him because he didnt want to stress defense or hire a defensive coach.. this is all facts.. and if you followed this... you would of seen the numerous article i have provide...

    my question to you... do you think he is a good, bad, average, below average, or above average defnsive coach?

    also.. can you tell me one idiot other than Jared Jefferies that actulayy praise him for his defensive strategy prior to the melo trade?

    just answer the two question....

    there is no bias.. just the facts...im a die hard knicks fan and i can see a con from a mile away...

    mikes damn good.. just not good enough to fool me.. but certainly good enough to fool a fool

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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    FIRST OR ALL
    ive be using O'antoni since that prick was hired, i wanted tom tibs....

    Second... there is no bias to my claims... if O;antoni was a good defensive coach.. i would admit it.. he a pretty good offensive coach.. but thta about it...

    i can only based this on the people who have been around him.. played for him, etc.. and PHX getting rid of him because he didnt want to stress defense or hire a defensive coach.. this is all facts.. and if you followed this... you would of seen the numerous article i have provide...

    my question to you... do you think he is a good, bad, average, below average, or above average defnsive coach?

    also.. can you tell me one idiot other than Jared Jefferies that actulayy praise him for his defensive strategy prior to the melo trade?

    just answer the two question....

    there is no bias.. just the facts...im a die hard knicks fan and i can see a con from a mile away...

    mikes damn good.. just not good enough to fool me.. but certainly good enough to fool a fool
    You haven't given me a shred of fact. You again just repeated opinions of others with no proof.

    First off, let me point out that Phoenix DID hire a defensive coach in Porter after Dantoni left. (not gotten rid of) Do I need to say what happened to the Suns after Porter took over? They started losing.....badly.... then they fired Porter and Gentry took over and guess what he did? He pushed the tempo back up again. You need the right coach for the right team.

    If you search the forums, you can find numerous videos and quotes about Dantoni actually teaching defense. Is his style a slow down, half court game? No. However, saying he teaches no defense is just absurd.

    Now let me answer your question of what I think of Dantoni. I personally find him to be a slightly above average coach. I respect him because he took a **** job knowing that it would be painful rebuilding. He hasn't had the type of lineup he likes nor has he had a stable lineup this year. However, he hasn't complained and keeps on being the same old ****y Dantoni (which a lot of people hate). Let me give a few positives/negatives

    Positives:
    -Tends to bring out the best in players that work hard and listen. Remember how nobody liked the Shawne Williams signing and thought Fields was a bad pick? Felton/Chandler thrived under him for the short while and in general players that leave his system diminish in play (Marion, Diaw, Barbosa). Unlike the stereotype he has, he always plays guys who he feels deserve to play.

    -Manages to make the most of mismatches on the offensive end as much as possible. Likes to speedball in order to create even more mismatches and not give defense the time to set up. Has adjusted his playbook numerous times for different players.

    -Good players want to come play for him. Uptempo and sharing the ball is appealing and a slow it down grindhouse 1v1 tends to wear down the player a lot. Helps that their stats are gonna be great if they work hard.

    Negatives
    -While defensive players thrive in his system, his team defensive schemes are definitely lacking. However, he does emphasize that as long as his team can make the key defensive stops, thats what matters. His phoenix teams did this while the Knicks still have not proven to be clutch on defense.

    -Not a disciplinarian. He's not the type to scream and force his players to do something. If you don't work hard on your own, he's just not gonna play you. Its very harsh on the young guys who haven't built a good work ethic a la Randolph, Milicic and Curry.

    -His out of bounds plays this year have not been good so far (though I cut him some slack with such a new team)

    To sum up, I don't find Dantoni to be the greatest coach, but who the hell else is viable to coach this team. A defensive coach wouldn't work, because this team isn't built to play slow grinding ball and we don't have a real center. There are NO good coaches readily available. At least wait for the offseason when there might be some decent candidates to go after. Like it or not, our team is gonna stay this way for the rest of the season and will be the better for it. Root for your team and try to have a little fun.
    Last edited by iJoe; Mar 11, 2011 at 22:24.

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