What a defensive coach can do for you

knicksman20

Benchwarmer
rebounds also create a lot of offensive opperuntites. hence, a centre

and thats a lack of players issue

And DA still has to break away from his comfort zone & play a big man CONSISTENTLY in the rotation. Which he's been reluctant to do. A big man can only do so much if the coach isn't preaching team defense. Team defense helps with boxing out, creating more rebounding opportunities, limiting opposing teams offensive rebounds, & creates steals which lead to fast breaks points. Again THAT"S a coaching issue. Not sure why you don't get that.
 

moneyg

Starter
And DA still has to break away from his comfort zone & play a big man CONSISTENTLY in the rotation. Which he's been reluctant to do. A big man can only do so much if the coach isn't preaching team defense. Team defense helps with boxing out, creating more rebounding opportunities, limiting opposing teams offensive rebounds, & creates steals which lead to fast breaks points. Again THAT"S a coaching issue. Not sure why you don't get that.


dont waste ur time...its obvioss these dudes got some sort of man crush on O'antoni

there bias leads to them being non-objective and he can do no wrong in their eyes...its always the players..

simply put... there is no person in the past other than Jrad jefferies that ever said he preaches defense...and he tap dance around that...

so do the math....

o'antoni is trying now becuz he has to.. but you cant make a bad jump shooter a good jump shooter overnight.. so as long as he is here.. we got a lot of growing pains to face...
 

iJoe

Rotation player
dont waste ur time...its obvioss these dudes got some sort of man crush on O'antoni

there bias leads to them being non-objective and he can do no wrong in their eyes...its always the players..

simply put... there is no person in the past other than Jrad jefferies that ever said he preaches defense...and he tap dance around that...

so do the math....

o'antoni is trying now becuz he has to.. but you cant make a bad jump shooter a good jump shooter overnight.. so as long as he is here.. we got a lot of growing pains to face...


Its funny how the most biased people claim everyone else who doesn't agree with them is biased. :teeth:

he can do no wrong in their eyes...its always the players..

You can make the argument that the other side views you as the type that says, the players can do no wrong...... its always Dantoni

I respect the people who actual do research and back up their claims rather than those who blindly follow media and group bias. Think for yourself and I'll respect you. There are people on both sides of the argument who both have valid claims.

As soon as you say man crushes and retarded slogans like O'antoni, you've lost all my respect as a debater. Man up and argue facts.
 

moneyg

Starter
Its funny how the most biased people claim everyone else who doesn't agree with them is biased. :teeth:



You can make the argument that the other side views you as the type that says, the players can do no wrong...... its always Dantoni

I respect the people who actual do research and back up their claims rather than those who blindly follow media and group bias. Think for yourself and I'll respect you. There are people on both sides of the argument who both have valid claims.

As soon as you say man crushes and retarded slogans like O'antoni, you've lost all my respect as a debater. Man up and argue facts.

FIRST OR ALL
ive be using O'antoni since that prick was hired, i wanted tom tibs....

Second... there is no bias to my claims... if O;antoni was a good defensive coach.. i would admit it.. he a pretty good offensive coach.. but thta about it...

i can only based this on the people who have been around him.. played for him, etc.. and PHX getting rid of him because he didnt want to stress defense or hire a defensive coach.. this is all facts.. and if you followed this... you would of seen the numerous article i have provide...

my question to you... do you think he is a good, bad, average, below average, or above average defnsive coach?

also.. can you tell me one idiot other than Jared Jefferies that actulayy praise him for his defensive strategy prior to the melo trade?

just answer the two question....

there is no bias.. just the facts...im a die hard knicks fan and i can see a con from a mile away...

mikes damn good.. just not good enough to fool me.. but certainly good enough to fool a fool
 

iJoe

Rotation player
FIRST OR ALL
ive be using O'antoni since that prick was hired, i wanted tom tibs....

Second... there is no bias to my claims... if O;antoni was a good defensive coach.. i would admit it.. he a pretty good offensive coach.. but thta about it...

i can only based this on the people who have been around him.. played for him, etc.. and PHX getting rid of him because he didnt want to stress defense or hire a defensive coach.. this is all facts.. and if you followed this... you would of seen the numerous article i have provide...

my question to you... do you think he is a good, bad, average, below average, or above average defnsive coach?

also.. can you tell me one idiot other than Jared Jefferies that actulayy praise him for his defensive strategy prior to the melo trade?

just answer the two question....

there is no bias.. just the facts...im a die hard knicks fan and i can see a con from a mile away...

mikes damn good.. just not good enough to fool me.. but certainly good enough to fool a fool

You haven't given me a shred of fact. You again just repeated opinions of others with no proof.

First off, let me point out that Phoenix DID hire a defensive coach in Porter after Dantoni left. (not gotten rid of) Do I need to say what happened to the Suns after Porter took over? They started losing.....badly.... then they fired Porter and Gentry took over and guess what he did? He pushed the tempo back up again. You need the right coach for the right team.

If you search the forums, you can find numerous videos and quotes about Dantoni actually teaching defense. Is his style a slow down, half court game? No. However, saying he teaches no defense is just absurd.

Now let me answer your question of what I think of Dantoni. I personally find him to be a slightly above average coach. I respect him because he took a shit job knowing that it would be painful rebuilding. He hasn't had the type of lineup he likes nor has he had a stable lineup this year. However, he hasn't complained and keeps on being the same old cocky Dantoni (which a lot of people hate). Let me give a few positives/negatives

Positives:
-Tends to bring out the best in players that work hard and listen. Remember how nobody liked the Shawne Williams signing and thought Fields was a bad pick? Felton/Chandler thrived under him for the short while and in general players that leave his system diminish in play (Marion, Diaw, Barbosa). Unlike the stereotype he has, he always plays guys who he feels deserve to play.

-Manages to make the most of mismatches on the offensive end as much as possible. Likes to speedball in order to create even more mismatches and not give defense the time to set up. Has adjusted his playbook numerous times for different players.

-Good players want to come play for him. Uptempo and sharing the ball is appealing and a slow it down grindhouse 1v1 tends to wear down the player a lot. Helps that their stats are gonna be great if they work hard.

Negatives
-While defensive players thrive in his system, his team defensive schemes are definitely lacking. However, he does emphasize that as long as his team can make the key defensive stops, thats what matters. His phoenix teams did this while the Knicks still have not proven to be clutch on defense.

-Not a disciplinarian. He's not the type to scream and force his players to do something. If you don't work hard on your own, he's just not gonna play you. Its very harsh on the young guys who haven't built a good work ethic a la Randolph, Milicic and Curry.

-His out of bounds plays this year have not been good so far (though I cut him some slack with such a new team)

To sum up, I don't find Dantoni to be the greatest coach, but who the hell else is viable to coach this team. A defensive coach wouldn't work, because this team isn't built to play slow grinding ball and we don't have a real center. There are NO good coaches readily available. At least wait for the offseason when there might be some decent candidates to go after. Like it or not, our team is gonna stay this way for the rest of the season and will be the better for it. Root for your team and try to have a little fun.
 
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MusketeerX

Rotation player
You haven't given me a shred of fact. You again just repeated opinions of others with no proof.

First off, let me point out that Phoenix DID hire a defensive coach in Porter after Dantoni left. (not gotten rid of) Do I need to say what happened to the Suns after Porter took over? They started losing.....badly.... then they fired Porter and Gentry took over and guess what he did? He pushed the tempo back up again. You need the right coach for the right team.

If you search the forums, you can find numerous videos and quotes about Dantoni actually teaching defense. Is his style a slow down, half court game? No. However, saying he teaches no defense is just absurd.

Now let me answer your question of what I think of Dantoni. I personally find him to be a slightly above average coach. I respect him because he took a shit job knowing that it would be painful rebuilding. He hasn't had the type of lineup he likes nor has he had a stable lineup this year. However, he hasn't complained and keeps on being the same old cocky Dantoni (which a lot of people hate). Let me give a few positives/negatives

Positives:
-Tends to bring out the best in players that work hard and listen. Remember how nobody liked the Shawne Williams signing and thought Fields was a bad pick? Felton/Chandler thrived under him for the short while and in general players that leave his system diminish in play (Marion, Diaw, Barbosa). Unlike the stereotype he has, he always plays guys who he feels deserve to play.

-Manages to make the most of mismatches on the offensive end as much as possible. Likes to speedball in order to create even more mismatches and not give defense the time to set up. Has adjusted his playbook numerous times for different players.

-Good players want to come play for him. Uptempo and sharing the ball is appealing and a slow it down grindhouse 1v1 tends to wear down the player a lot. Helps that their stats are gonna be great if they work hard.

Negatives
-While defensive players thrive in his system, his team defensive schemes are definitely lacking. However, he does emphasize that as long as his team can make the key defensive stops, thats what matters. His phoenix teams did this while the Knicks still have not proven to be clutch on defense.

-Not a disciplinarian. He's not the type to scream and force his players to do something. If you don't work hard on your own, he's just not gonna play you. Its very harsh on the young guys who haven't built a good work ethic a la Randolph, Milicic and Curry.

-His out of bounds plays this year have not been good so far (though I cut him some slack with such a new team)

To sum up, I don't find Dantoni to be the greatest coach, but who the hell else is viable to coach this team. A defensive coach wouldn't work, because this team isn't built to play slow grinding ball and we don't have a real center. There are NO good coaches readily available. At least wait for the offseason when there might be some decent candidates to go after. Like it or not, our team is gonna stay this way for the rest of the season and will be the better for it. Root for your team and try to have a little fun.

This team is now built for half court... not the other way around.

We don't placate D'Antoni and his offense because we know there is a better team there than he is allowing out. His stuborness has cost us trade value, players, and wins. It will cost us a championship if he remains the head coach or does not accept a defensive minded assistant coach. He needs to start playing to our player's strengths. We cannot have 120 point games anymore. Our team is just not built for the fast offense. He needs to concentrate more on setting up defensive strategies.

I swear, if I see us blow defensive coverage on a simple PnR one more time, I'm going to find him and slap the mustache of his face...

I love this team, and I hate seeing it lose games to Cleveland because our players don't work together coherently on D. It's just sad. Charles Barkley has a right to call us: 'turr-i-ble" when we lay duds on D.

No championship team has ever won without playing D... Those are the facts. D'Antoni's system is not viable...
 

moneyg

Starter
You haven't given me a shred of fact. You again just repeated opinions of others with no proof.

First off, let me point out that Phoenix DID hire a defensive coach in Porter after Dantoni left. (not gotten rid of) Do I need to say what happened to the Suns after Porter took over? They started losing.....badly.... then they fired Porter and Gentry took over and guess what he did? He pushed the tempo back up again. You need the right coach for the right team.

If you search the forums, you can find numerous videos and quotes about Dantoni actually teaching defense. Is his style a slow down, half court game? No. However, saying he teaches no defense is just absurd.

Now let me answer your question of what I think of Dantoni. I personally find him to be a slightly above average coach. I respect him because he took a shit job knowing that it would be painful rebuilding. He hasn't had the type of lineup he likes nor has he had a stable lineup this year. However, he hasn't complained and keeps on being the same old cocky Dantoni (which a lot of people hate). Let me give a few positives/negatives

Positives:
-Tends to bring out the best in players that work hard and listen. Remember how nobody liked the Shawne Williams signing and thought Fields was a bad pick? Felton/Chandler thrived under him for the short while and in general players that leave his system diminish in play (Marion, Diaw, Barbosa). Unlike the stereotype he has, he always plays guys who he feels deserve to play.

-Manages to make the most of mismatches on the offensive end as much as possible. Likes to speedball in order to create even more mismatches and not give defense the time to set up. Has adjusted his playbook numerous times for different players.

-Good players want to come play for him. Uptempo and sharing the ball is appealing and a slow it down grindhouse 1v1 tends to wear down the player a lot. Helps that their stats are gonna be great if they work hard.

Negatives
-While defensive players thrive in his system, his team defensive schemes are definitely lacking. However, he does emphasize that as long as his team can make the key defensive stops, thats what matters. His phoenix teams did this while the Knicks still have not proven to be clutch on defense.

-Not a disciplinarian. He's not the type to scream and force his players to do something. If you don't work hard on your own, he's just not gonna play you. Its very harsh on the young guys who haven't built a good work ethic a la Randolph, Milicic and Curry.

-His out of bounds plays this year have not been good so far (though I cut him some slack with such a new team)

To sum up, I don't find Dantoni to be the greatest coach, but who the hell else is viable to coach this team. A defensive coach wouldn't work, because this team isn't built to play slow grinding ball and we don't have a real center. There are NO good coaches readily available. At least wait for the offseason when there might be some decent candidates to go after. Like it or not, our team is gonna stay this way for the rest of the season and will be the better for it. Root for your team and try to have a little fun.

You say i havent given you a shread of proof.. why should I .. you said it your self

My first question

... "do you think he is a good, bad, average, below average, or above average defnsive coach?"

you quote

"his team defensive schemes are definitely lacking."

My second question

you did not answer...bcuz you anwered it above...everybody knows it...

read what i wrote...
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
And DA still has to break away from his comfort zone & play a big man CONSISTENTLY in the rotation. Which he's been reluctant to do. A big man can only do so much if the coach isn't preaching team defense. Team defense helps with boxing out, creating more rebounding opportunities, limiting opposing teams offensive rebounds, & creates steals which lead to fast breaks points. Again THAT"S a coaching issue. Not sure why you don't get that.

WE DONT HAVE A BIG MAN YOU IDIOT.
NOT SURE WHY YOU DONT GET THAT
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
WE DONT HAVE A BIG MAN YOU IDIOT.
NOT SURE WHY YOU DONT GET THAT

Jeesh Toons, why are you getting angry with the ALL CAPS? We did have a big man. He didn't play in the rotation until the month before the trade deadline. No need to get mean about the act we don't have a big man now. We really should have picked up Earl Barron.
 

knicksman20

Benchwarmer
WE DONT HAVE A BIG MAN YOU IDIOT.
NOT SURE WHY YOU DONT GET THAT

A big man does NOT solve our problem if the coach isn't preaching TEAM defense & holding players accountable for a blown assignment. If you weren't so busy doing chin-ups from DA's scrotum, you'd be able to see this.
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
so whos to blame for that Walsh or O'antoni.????. im putting blame on both..

Oantoni more because its his type of players

i dont care who is the blame, we dont have one, we never had one.
a big man, isnt a guy who has ONE good game ALL season. And dont give me the bull that moz didnt play. Its walsh's fault. Not Dantoni. Barron CHOSE the bucks over the knicks, I read an article where walsh told barron to stay ready. Barrons agent told him to sign with the bucks.
Its frustrating when people say play half court ball when we dont have a big. Who plays halfcourt ball without a big???
 
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