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Thread: Ssol

  1. #1
    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
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    Can someone explain something to me regarding this, and I don't ask in a sarcastic way.

    If SSOL was such a bad system, why has every player that was playing it under D'antoni gone backwards since they left his team?

    I'm not advocating it for this team, it's not the right fit, but it was for the Suns at that time and they just weren't good enough in the end to take out dynasty teams like the Lakers or the Spurs.

    Was it the right fit for the early Knicks? I say yes despite the protestations and here is why. MDA was as clued up and aware as anyone in the Knicks front office that he was going to be losing most if not every player on his team, he knew it from the minute we started looking at LeBron and Ricky and he also knew that their way of playing would have suited it down to the ground. He was building a team to play with those players or similair in mind and he was trying to increase the numbers of his other players (and succeeding) to make them look better as trade bait.

    If you'd have had Chris Duhon playing the point in a slower system and having to over emphasise on defence, dear god. I mean at least in the SSOL he was able at times to tease us and prospective buyers into thinking he could throw up some points/assists.

    MDA was doing exactly what he's doing now, he was getting the best out of what he had. It's totally unfair to criticise him for any way he played with the scrubs we had and when we did get better players the style we played continued to suit them, they were a step up but it was always going to be the way that most would move on if not all, Gallo was maybe the one hard piece for him to let go.

    The Nuggets certainly don't seem to waste much time getting the ball up in the air from when they transition defense into attack, and it's drawing praise from everywhere how their tempo is continuing to offset other teams game plans, add in the advantage they have in altitude and the increased bench depth and you have a better version of what MDA's system was all about.

    The difference between us and the Nuggets though is simple, we have Carmelo, Billups and Amar'e and they don't, and no amount of bench talent is going to make up for that. It will keep them competitive and they may shock a few people but that's about it.

    So, I ask you, was it always down to how poor SSOL was or simply down to the fact we didn't have and didn't get the right personnel to play it.

    We've moved on and it's for the best, my point is though SSOL was never the problem in my eyes, the fact we didn't have players of the calibre of Melo, Amar'e and Billups but players able to fit the system was.

  2. #2
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    SSOL will still be used by us. Even if it isn't the end'all'be'all of how our team plays.

    Ideally, sure, a pure SSOL team will have players who excel in full-court, run like gazelles, are crisp distributors, and can knock down 3s when need be.

    Only a fool would have players who simply can't do these things -- or just excel at others -- play this precise way. But you can have players who excel in iso, posting up, half-court...and still benefit from a SSOL philosophy. It doesn't mutually exclude their given skill set -- it should simply diversify it and compliment.

    The above type of SSOL team would be a cookie cutter mold; which actually SSOL is the antithesis of. Even if it's best and most readily exemplified by *a* breed of player; it's not exclusive to it.

    Pre-Melo we were doing quite well regardless, with a more smothering SSOL team -- SSOL took a greater precedence on our team, in molding our players, because the players we had weren't that great, and our very incomplete team had a brutal lack of star power on top of things.

    I'd say it did pretty damn well in that regard. As it did in PHO.

    And I'd suspect SSOL to keep doing it's thing, even if it takes a "backseat", and as our team itself grows in the caliber of our players.

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    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    SSOL will still be used by us. Even if it isn't the end'all'be'all of how our team plays.

    Ideally, sure, a pure SSOL team will have players who excel in full-court, run like gazelles, are crisp distributors, and can knock down 3s when need be.

    Only a fool would have players who simply can't do these things -- or just excel at others -- play this precise way. But you can have players who excel in iso, posting up, half-court...and still benefit from a SSOL philosophy. It doesn't mutually exclude their given skill set -- it should simply diversify it and compliment.

    The above type of SSOL team would be a cookie cutter mold; which actually SSOL is the antithesis of. Even if it's best and most readily exemplified by *a* breed of player; it's not exclusive to it.

    Pre-Melo we were doing quite well regardless, with a more smothering SSOL team -- SSOL took a greater precedence on our team, in molding our players, because the players we had weren't that great, and our very incomplete team had a brutal lack of star power on top of things.

    I'd say it did pretty damn well in that regard. As it did in PHO.

    And I'd suspect SSOL to keep doing it's thing, even if it takes a "backseat", and as our team itself grows in the caliber of our players.
    Good post, well put.

    I always thought if Nash could defend just that bit better that the Suns would have been damn near impossible to stop, as it was he was an easy source of baskets for every team the Suns played regardless of how great he was with the ball in hand.

  4. #4
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Ssol has been shelved.

    The players and pace have changed.

    The spacing remains the same, but we're running more of halfcourt offense currently.

    We're really working it around in the halfcourt, looking for the best shot possible. I like it..
    Last edited by ronoranina; Mar 08, 2011 at 19:54.

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    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    The problem with SSOL is that you need elite level conditioning to run the system effectively. When you have a guy like Steve Nash at the point who's probably got better conditioning than most players that are 10 years younger than him along with Amare, Marion & Joe Johnson in their youth running on the wings you can get away with pushing uptempo for 48 minutes & just outscore teams on a nightly basis.

    When you have an older guy like Chauncey or AC running point & Amare who's knees are wrapped in ice after every game & Melo who likes to work a lot out of the post, then you need to slow down the offense some, you can't just push upcourt on every single possession these guys are human they need a breather at some point especially these older guys.

    That's why MDA's teams are traditionally so bad defensively guys are just plain gassed from playing uptempo all game long it takes a toll over the course of the game. In recent games where the Knicks have played good defense, they've been able to do so by slowing down the pace of the game. This has allowed our players to have more energy to expend on the defensive side of the ball. If MDA can continue to play a more controlled pace & sacrifice that vaunted SSOL system of his then I think he could have success in NY w/this current team, but we're really not built like the Phoenix Suns teams that won him 60+ games in the regular season were so to expect to have the same type of success running the exact same system would be a bad way to go about it. A good coach is able to tailor the system around the personnel he has.

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    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    The problem with SSOL is that you need elite level conditioning to run the system effectively. When you have a guy like Steve Nash at the point who's probably got better conditioning than most players that are 10 years younger than him along with Amare, Marion & Joe Johnson in their youth running on the wings you can get away with pushing uptempo for 48 minutes & just outscore teams on a nightly basis.

    When you have an older guy like Chauncey or AC running point & Amare who's knees are wrapped in ice after every game & Melo who likes to work a lot out of the post, then you need to slow down the offense some, you can't just push upcourt on every single possession these guys are human they need a breather at some point especially these older guys.

    That's why MDA's teams are traditionally so bad defensively guys are just plain gassed from playing uptempo all game long it takes a toll over the course of the game. In recent games where the Knicks have played good defense, they've been able to do so by slowing down the pace of the game. This has allowed our players to have more energy to expend on the defensive side of the ball. If MDA can continue to play a more controlled pace & sacrifice that vaunted SSOL system of his then I think he could have success in NY w/this current team, but we're really not built like the Phoenix Suns teams that won him 60+ games in the regular season were so to expect to have the same type of success running the exact same system would be a bad way to go about it. A good coach is able to tailor the system around the personnel he has.
    Agree with all of that, but the point of the thread was two fold, to suggest that SSOL has its place and that MDA has used it rightfully and now ditched it, at least in the main, now that it is no longer sensible.

    SSOL made our players look better than they actually were and now that we have better players more suited to another system, we've droppped it and rightfully so.

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    Originally Posted by WrongIslander
    Agree with all of that, but the point of the thread was two fold, to suggest that SSOL has its place and that MDA has used it rightfully and now ditched it, at least in the main, now that it is no longer sensible.

    SSOL made our players look better than they actually were and now that we have better players more suited to another system, we've droppped it and rightfully so.
    Finally...

  8. #8
    The Knicks are Back DaTPRiNCE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Ssol has been shelved.

    The players and pace have changed.

    The spacing remains the same, but we're running more of halfcourt offense currently.

    We're really working it around in the halfcourt, looking for the best shot possible. I like it..
    exactly that ball-movement we've been having lately is something else. Love watching it hopefully we keep it up, stick with whats working pests on D and swinging the chip around practically hypnotizing the opposing D into getting the shot we want

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    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WrongIslander
    Agree with all of that, but the point of the thread was two fold, to suggest that SSOL has its place and that MDA has used it rightfully and now ditched it, at least in the main, now that it is no longer sensible.

    SSOL made our players look better than they actually were and now that we have better players more suited to another system, we've droppped it and rightfully so.
    Well I'm not going to give the man too much props for doing what's logical. It's not like he's invented the wheel here. I highly doubt MDA's motivation to play speedball the past 2 years was to inflate our players' value for trades either. This coach is notorious for stubbornly sticking to his system despite what any critics, GM's or even ex-players have to say about his coaching style. I'm happy that he's slowed down the pace some to suit the personnel but that should have been a given.

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