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Thread: Basketball Champions Offensive and Defensive ratings (last 15 years)

  1. #16
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Since you all know so much about MDA during his 4 full seasons with PHX, how about you tell me exactly where the Suns D' ranked during those 4 years in terms of both PPG allowed & FG%.

    Just because PHX always ranked as a top 3 offense under MDA; doesn't mean it was a "given" that NY would also, in less than 3 years, rank as a top 3 offense; during a year where MDA entered the season with 4 of 5 brand new starters who weren't with NY last year. Fields is just a rookie. It wasn't a "given". Not when Nash was a top 2 PG (KIdd) under MDA, Amare was enoying his golden years str8 out of HS, Joe Johnson was considered one of the NBA's most deadly 3 point shooters & the Matrix was as explosive as they came etc, etc. How quickly you MDA harpers forget: NY fans DREAMED of Amare during the offseason, because of his offense; not his "defense". We prayed for Melo because he's a top 3 NBA scorer, not because of his "D". We ONLY landed Melo because MDA took the offensive games of Gallo, Chandler & Felton to another level!
    Thanks for answering my questions and AGAIN ignoring the thread's main point. Defense has always been the main ingredient in championship teams.

    Has D'Antoni ever had a top ten defensive team?

    We got Melo because he wanted to be here. We got Amar'e because we offered him a lot of money and he knew Melo would come if he came.

    D'Antoni had nothing to do with it. At all.

    Answer my questions, please.

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    It's just sad when MDA haters harp all over NYs every wrong move on D' when it's a team sport. They judge him on his 4 years with PHX on D' without even giving him a chance to right the ship here in NY. When was the last time NY ranked as a top 3 offense or top 10 "defense"? Long before MDA came to town; our D, O & entire team was an NBA laughing stock. But yet, blame MDA for our D during a year he's working with 5 new starters? How quicly people forget MDA made us relivent, respected & part of the NBA & playoff talk for the 1st time in God knows when. It's just sad they cant even appreciate what he's meant for our proud franchise. He put his career win % on the line just for a chance to succeed in NY. NY D's of the 90's? Damn. Jeffries is no Ewing. Amare is no Oakley. Turiaf is no Mason. Shelden is no Anthony Smith & Fields is no Starks who competed with MJ one on one. Mozgov wasn't even Bill Dudley. George could never get Melo to D' up, but yet, MDA has Melo playing D & even talking D.

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    Still ignoring the question. He had elite talent in Phoenix for years. You are acting like this is his first year as an NBA head coach.

    Instead you use the excuse that we are haters when we just looking at it in an unbiased way.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    It's just sad when MDA haters harp all over NYs every wrong move on D' when it's a team sport. They judge him on his 4 years with PHX on D' without even giving him a chance to right the ship here in NY. When was the last time NY ranked as a top 3 offense or top 10 "defense"? Long before MDA came to town; our D, O & entire team was an NBA laughing stock. But yet, blame MDA for our D during a year he's working with 5 new starters? How quicly people forget MDA made us relivent, respected & part of the NBA & playoff talk for the 1st time in God knows when. It's just sad they cant even appreciate what he's meant for our proud franchise. He put his career win % on the line just for a chance to succeed in NY. NY D's of the 90's? Damn. Jeffries is no Ewing. Amare is no Oakley. Turiaf is no Mason. Shelden is no Anthony Smith & Fields is no Starks who competed with MJ one on one. Mozgov wasn't even Bill Dudley. George could never get Melo to D' up, but yet, MDA has Melo playing D & even talking D.
    Can you get the old Knicks players names right homie?? Charles Smith maybe... Chris Dudley... smh

    Thank you.

  5. #20
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    It's just sad when MDA haters harp all over NYs every wrong move on D' when it's a team sport. They judge him on his 4 years with PHX on D' without even giving him a chance to right the ship here in NY. When was the last time NY ranked as a top 3 offense or top 10 "defense"? Long before MDA came to town; our D, O & entire team was an NBA laughing stock. But yet, blame MDA for our D during a year he's working with 5 new starters? How quicly people forget MDA made us relivent, respected & part of the NBA & playoff talk for the 1st time in God knows when. It's just sad they cant even appreciate what he's meant for our proud franchise. He put his career win % on the line just for a chance to succeed in NY. NY D's of the 90's? Damn. Jeffries is no Ewing. Amare is no Oakley. Turiaf is no Mason. Shelden is no Anthony Smith & Fields is no Starks who competed with MJ one on one. Mozgov wasn't even Bill Dudley. George could never get Melo to D' up, but yet, MDA has Melo playing D & even talking D.
    SSOL is this coach's MO. You've seen the stats that really only top 10 defensive teams have won chips. Why should we entertain a coach that has shown over the course of this year, the last two, his phoenix years, and by his very own words, that he would rather have 5 midgets that can shoot a ball than a 7 footer that can defend?

    We gave him a chance over the last two years. He was in a messy situation. Totally understand that. He did not even speak of defense this year until Billups came along.

    He refused to play our one talented 7'1 center, even though you've said that a guy like that can help our defense. Anthony Randolph sat on the bench for most of the year, never given the opportunity to grow. He was never coached defense. Amar'e was never coached defense (Amar'e said this himself)...

    He never played Corey Brewer, who is a great defensive player....

    So please answer my questions that i posted 6 or 7 posts ago.

    Oh and Melo's D has worsened since being in NY. Same as Billups. I posted about that in my last thread.
    Last edited by MusketeerX; Mar 12, 2011 at 19:22.

  6. #21
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    OMG. Not talking about this year. I'm talking about all years. I'm talking about MDA during the Phoenix years. Without defense, championships are going to always be just out of reach.

    You didn't read the entire post did you. Most desirable is both offense and defense in the top 10. 4 teams didn't have both in top 10.

    3 of those 4 teams were top in defense.

    The remaining team became an elite defensive team in the playoffs.

    You are going to apologize when MDA never wins us one, right?
    Seriously things are changing in the team I don't know if you watch games but there is plenty of defense going on, we're not great at it yet, the team has not enough experience to get everything sorted on either end. Thing is one on one with Stat and Melo is easy offensively, defense teamwork is always required.

    We'll get better no doubt. We do need a big guy though we are lacking like 5 RPG as a team so filling that void is important. But can't blame coach that we don't have a big guy right now.

    I don't think anyone in their right mind can expect a deep playoff run this year. Getting past the first round would be an achievement.

    When we have a complete team, then let's see where we are on the table of top defensive teams.

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    I have no idea where the Suns D "ranked". I'm still waiting for the answers. I know they weren't top 10, but where exactly did they rank on D in terms of pts per game allowed & FG % during the 4 full seasons D'Antoni coached?

    I don't need to know where PHX D's "ranked". I know enough to know that MDA never had a chance to lead PHX to top D's.

    Doesn't mean NY cant build a top 10 D' under MDA with the KNICKS. Much different players.

    Way before "MDA" Nash was considered a very bad defender (still is). TD has been great on D since his FSU days, & has been outstanding under MDA. Joe Johnson has never been known for his "D". That was before, during & after MDA's time with PHX. We have Fields who under MDA; has shown ability to play strong peremeter D' as a rook. Melo is playing D under MDA & a focused Melo is much better than Marion. We lack size, Center(s), blocekd shots & ability to board. Amare is our ONLY rebounding threat who blocks shots as a Big. Weird, coming from someone who; came from PHX with MDA.

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    @ rono... I have many of post's on here talking about Charles Smith. Never called him "Anthony before". Been a long time since the Dudley days, not sure why I called him Bill.

    Also, just because Mozgov was 7'1... Doesn't mean he was productive. The man was only averaging 2 & 3 or 3 & 4 as a starter. Pathetic for a 7 footer. Our SG Fields rebounds better than that Russian project.

    Don't even think about blaming MDA for the loses of Mozgov & Randolph. MDA was against the trade to begin with. So was Walsh. Dolan forced the trade to happen (I'm glad he did too). MDA gave Randolph a chance & he wasn't all that impressive. Mason is now getting minutes & thats a perfect example of a coach not throwing raw bench players into the fire & feeding them to NBA wolves. MDA wasn't the only coach who didn't play Randolph; another good coach did too lol.

    If MDA didn't teach D... A rookie in Fields, who MDA loved & gave a chance to since day one; wouldn't play tough D. Same goes for TD. Amare wouldn't be our best big on D.

  9. #24
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    I have no idea where the Suns D "ranked". I'm still waiting for the answers. I know they weren't top 10, but where exactly did they rank on D in terms of pts per game allowed & FG % during the 4 full seasons D'Antoni coached?

    I don't need to know where PHX D's "ranked". I know enough to know that MDA never had a chance to lead PHX to top D's.

    Doesn't mean NY cant build a top 10 D' under MDA with the KNICKS. Much different players.

    Way before "MDA" Nash was considered a very bad defender (still is). TD has been great on D since his FSU days, & has been outstanding under MDA. Joe Johnson has never been known for his "D". That was before, during & after MDA's time with PHX. We have Fields who under MDA; has shown ability to play strong peremeter D' as a rook. Melo is playing D under MDA & a focused Melo is much better than Marion. We lack size, Center(s), blocekd shots & ability to board. Amare is our ONLY rebounding threat who blocks shots as a Big. Weird, coming from someone who; came from PHX with MDA.
    Melo, Fields, and Amare are all good rebounders. PHX's defense was never top 10. Offense, as you can tell by the stats, matters, but so does Defense... moreso than offense.

    Your questions serve against your point. Your point is, well it doesn't matter if their defense was crap... he had one of the top offenses...

    Yes a top offense that never won a championship. If he cared as much about defense as you let on, why didn't his team rank in top 10? Top 5? 11 of the last 15 championship teams were in the TOP 5. The best MDA could manage was 13th best in the league... Not too shabby, but it is nowhere good enough to give a team a significant chance at the chip.

    We need a coach that can propel us to the top 10, and preferably top 7. We stand little chance of winning without it. It is going to take TEAM DEFENSE to do this. One on one defenders are not enough. The whole team needs to know rotations, and how to defend against specific plays.

    MDA has never shown that he is capable of this. His substitutions are poor and he'd rather just out score you.

    Like I said before. Melo's defense has gotten worse since coming to the Knicks.

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    @ rono... I have many of post's on here talking about Charles Smith. Never called him "Anthony before". Been a long time since the Dudley days, not sure why I called him Bill.

    Also, just because Mozgov was 7'1... Doesn't mean he was productive. The man was only averaging 2 & 3 or 3 & 4 as a starter. Pathetic for a 7 footer. Our SG Fields rebounds better than that Russian project.

    Don't even think about blaming MDA for the loses of Mozgov & Randolph. MDA was against the trade to begin with. So was Walsh. Dolan forced the trade to happen (I'm glad he did too). MDA gave Randolph a chance & he wasn't all that impressive. Mason is now getting minutes & thats a perfect example of a coach not throwing raw bench players into the fire & feeding them to NBA wolves. MDA wasn't the only coach who didn't play Randolph; another good coach did too lol.

    If MDA didn't teach D... A rookie in Fields, who MDA loved & gave a chance to since day one; wouldn't play tough D. Same goes for TD. Amare wouldn't be our best big on D.
    Here is your sentence:

    Shelden is no Anthony Smith & Fields is no Starks who competed with MJ one on one. Mozgov wasn't even Bill Dudley.

    Okay?

    I'm not mad@ you. Just think if you're going to post on Knicks Forum You should atleast know or be accurate w the names of our former players. That's all..
    Last edited by ronoranina; Mar 12, 2011 at 20:16.

  11. #26
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    @ rono... I have many of post's on here talking about Charles Smith. Never called him "Anthony before". Been a long time since the Dudley days, not sure why I called him Bill.

    Also, just because Mozgov was 7'1... Doesn't mean he was productive. The man was only averaging 2 & 3 or 3 & 4 as a starter. Pathetic for a 7 footer. Our SG Fields rebounds better than that Russian project.

    Don't even think about blaming MDA for the loses of Mozgov & Randolph. MDA was against the trade to begin with. So was Walsh. Dolan forced the trade to happen (I'm glad he did too). MDA gave Randolph a chance & he wasn't all that impressive. Mason is now getting minutes & thats a perfect example of a coach not throwing raw bench players into the fire & feeding them to NBA wolves. MDA wasn't the only coach who didn't play Randolph; another good coach did too lol.

    If MDA didn't teach D... A rookie in Fields, who MDA loved & gave a chance to since day one; wouldn't play tough D. Same goes for TD. Amare wouldn't be our best big on D.
    Landry was so good, that even someone as blind as D'Antoni had to recognize it. We were also very weak in the 2 spot, and he was an obvious choice.

    And you can't use Mozgov's stats as a good indicator of what kind of player he was. He only got garbage minutes, which ultimately brought down his stats. He hustled and played well when he was on the floor most nights. Besides, you said a center matters.

    I'm not blaming D'Antoni for the trade. I do blame him for never playing AR or Mozzie Mozbourne.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    Seriously things are changing in the team I don't know if you watch games but there is plenty of defense going on, we're not great at it yet, the team has not enough experience to get everything sorted on either end. Thing is one on one with Stat and Melo is easy offensively, defense teamwork is always required.

    We'll get better no doubt. We do need a big guy though we are lacking like 5 RPG as a team so filling that void is important. But can't blame coach that we don't have a big guy right now.

    I don't think anyone in their right mind can expect a deep playoff run this year. Getting past the first round would be an achievement.

    When we have a complete team, then let's see where we are on the table of top defensive teams.
    Smokes, i thought things were starting to change too, but our last few games saw guys put up ridiculous numbers. They are just falling back into old habits. They need a coach that can really discipline their minds around playing D every possession down the floor. They need a coach that can have pace their offense so they are not exhausted by the end of games...

    D'Antoni is not that guy.

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    Give MDA & NY a productive big man @ Center; something we haven't had since Ewing & Camby; & our D' becomes much improved. But yet, all of a sudden MDA takes the blame for NY's horrible play down low? Funny. A talented C would help us so much. Especially considering the fact that MDA has 5 starters who weren't with us last year & 3 of those 5 starters have only been here for 10 or less games. All we need is a productive C & time to gel; & NY's D' would improve by leaps & bounds. As it stands, Amare may not be a great defender, but he has NO help from the C position as our PF. Stoudemire is our ONLY talented big that can rebound on the boards & block shots on a consistant basis. But you "expect" us to compete with BOS, CHI, LAL & ORL on D? Not realistic. Dalembert or Jordan would give us a legit Center, a true Big who can box out, distrupt shots, grab boards, block shots, fill lanes, imrpove Amare's overall D & bring respect back to NY's paint for the 1st time in whats been too long.

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    Ok, so the Suns D ranked 13th in an extremely tough Western Conf one year. Where exactly did PHX rank on D during the other 3 years?

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Ok, so the Suns D ranked 13th in an extremely tough Western Conf one year. Where exactly did PHX rank on D during the other 3 years?
    Top 10 is the magic number. The closer you get to the number one spot the greater your chances go up. 78% of the teams were within top 7. 11 of the 15 were in top 5!

    He had his team in Phoenix and he showed he can't do it in his system. let's move on to someone else if he is unwilling to go away from his system.

    We had an adequate center in Mozgov, who was never used. I want a defensive big, too, and we will get better, but with D'Antoni, as he has shown in Phoenix, it won't be the difference maker.

    Not to mention, our team right now is not built for SSOL... yet they've been running it anyways (Memphis, Dallas).

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