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Thread: Basketball Champions Offensive and Defensive ratings (last 15 years)

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    Top 10 is the magic number. The closer you get to the number one spot the greater your chances go up. 78% of the teams were within top 7. 11 of the 15 were in top 5!

    He had his team in Phoenix and he showed he can't do it in his system. let's move on to someone else if he is unwilling to go away from his system.

    We had an adequate center in Mozgov, who was never used. I want a defensive big, too, and we will get better, but with D'Antoni, as he has shown in Phoenix, it won't be the difference maker.

    Not to mention, our team right now is not built for SSOL... yet they've been running it anyways (Memphis, Dallas).
    I generally agree with everything you've said in this thread, but I wouldn't really call Mozgov an adequate center.

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Ok, so the Suns D ranked 13th in an extremely tough Western Conf one year. Where exactly did PHX rank on D during the other 3 years?
    2008:
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 113.3 (2nd of 30) ▪ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 108.1 (16th of 30)

    2007:
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 113.9 (1st of 30) ▪ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 106.4 (13th of 30)

    2006:
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 111.5 (2nd of 30) ▪ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 105.8 (16th of 30)

    2005:
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 114.5 (1st of 30) ▪ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 107.1 (17th of 30)

    Slightly below average each time.

    Here are the facts:
    • Only top 10 defensive teams really stand a chance of winning rings (but chances go up the more you get to that number one spot)
    • MDA has never had a top 10 defensive team,
    • MDA has admitted he doesn't care about defense,
    • MDA had an excellent team of his own design for four years that couldn't make the top 10.
    Given the above, why should I believe that this man, without a great defensive assistant coach, could make our Knicks team (with admittedly poor individual defenders in Melo and Amar'e) a top ten defensive team?

    I have faith Thibs and Popovich can do it. Doc Rivers has proven to be able to put together a top 10 defensive coach (with Thibs help). Phil Jackson has shown he can do it...

    MDA never has. What makes you think he can now?

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by Carmare
    I generally agree with everything you've said in this thread, but I wouldn't really call Mozgov an adequate center.
    Will agree to disagree with you on that one. He was athletic, had a decent jump shot, could block, accept alley oops and board.

    He just needed more playing time. He had a good basketball IQ, too.

  4. #34
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    Props on the stats that were dropped first and foremost.

    @knicksfanfromqueens1985 Boston was a team put together in the offseason and won the chip the same season. Do you know why that team won? DEFENSE!!

    Even though PHX was in the west, in the playoffs you have to be the best in your conference before you can play the best in the other conference.

    Either way, both conferences have to play the other for the ring.

    In any sport, it is a KNOWN FACT you cannot win w/o defense.

    You dont even have to have the best players on paper to be the best, look at the 04 pistons. Given they had a FEW defensive specialists in ben wallace, prince and lindsey hunter, the entire team played D and they won.

    The reason the entire team played D is because the coached PREACHED D.

    As long as the leader is great at leading, the pack will provail!

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    2008:
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 113.3 (2nd of 30) ▪ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 108.1 (16th of 30)

    2007:
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 113.9 (1st of 30) ▪ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 106.4 (13th of 30)

    2006:
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 111.5 (2nd of 30) ▪ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 105.8 (16th of 30)

    2005:
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 114.5 (1st of 30) ▪ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: 107.1 (17th of 30)

    Slightly below average each time.

    Here are the facts:
    • Only top 10 defensive teams really stand a chance of winning rings (but chances go up the more you get to that number one spot)
    • MDA has never had a top 10 defensive team,
    • MDA has admitted he doesn't care about defense,
    • MDA had an excellent team of his own design for four years that couldn't make the top 10.
    Given the above, why should I believe that this man, without a great defensive assistant coach, could make our Knicks team (with admittedly poor individual defenders in Melo and Amar'e) a top ten defensive team?

    I have faith Thibs and Popovich can do it. Doc Rivers has proven to be able to put together a top 10 defensive coach (with Thibs help). Phil Jackson has shown he can do it...

    MDA never has. What makes you think he can now?
    There really isnt a question in having a Top Offense with a middle of the pack D is not the way to go to win a Championship, history will tell you that. The question is can D'Antoni lead a team to atleast Top 10 in Defense to go along with a Top 5 Offense?

    So far he hasnt shown that he can from his days in Phx, so as a Knicks fan if he doesnt show some sort of consistent improvement and dedication in this department for the rest of the season/playoffs then I think its time to go in a diffrent direction as far as HC is concerned.

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    You all can continue to compain about MDA 24/7 in whats already been a special season so far. Enjoy.

    I'll continue to appreciate & enjoy this new team & season for what it's worth; which is a chance to make the playoffs as a 5 seed; for the 1st time since 04 with a top 3 offensive attack, led by a true veteran leader @ the Point in Billups, to go along with 2 of the NBA's top 5-10 Stars in Carmelo & Amare. I'll also enjoy the overall talents & production of our home grown/young talents in Fields & Douglas. Haven't seed a NYK rookie as solid as Fields since God known when. I'll enjoy NY being relivent once again as a proud Franchise that can possibly make some noise here in the East come playoff time. No one expected NY to win, or even compete for a championship until next year to begin with. Everyone knew we lacked the type of BIG's that could even come close; to being able to match LA, BOS, CHI, ORL, SA etc, etc. Amare, Mozgov, AR, JJ & Turiaf aren't quite Herb, Ewing, Oakley, Mason & Charles Smith.

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    You all can continue to compain about MDA 24/7 in whats already been a special season so far. Enjoy.

    I'll continue to appreciate & enjoy this new team & season for what it's worth; which is a chance to make the playoffs as a 5 seed; for the 1st time since 04 with a top 3 offensive attack, led by a true veteran leader @ the Point in Billups, to go along with 2 of the NBA's top 5-10 Stars in Carmelo & Amare. I'll also enjoy the overall talents & production of our home grown/young talents in Fields & Douglas. Haven't seed a NYK rookie as solid as Fields since God known when. I'll enjoy NY being relivent once again as a proud Franchise that can possibly make some noise here in the East come playoff time. No one expected NY to win, or even compete for a championship until next year to begin with. Everyone knew we lacked the type of BIG's that could even come close; to being able to match LA, BOS, CHI, ORL, SA etc, etc. Amare, Mozgov, AR, JJ & Turiaf aren't quite Herb, Ewing, Oakley, Mason & Charles Smith.
    If you are unable to enjoy a season and constructively critique your team at the same time then just stay out of threads like this.


    It's okay to enjoy a team's success while still discussing what can be done to improve.


    Any ounce of negativity is classified as "hate" with you.

  8. #38
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    Go to my thread on D'antoni

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

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    How can you say "even a blind man such as D'Antoni could see how good Fields is"?

    Care to explain how & why he dropped so late into the 2nd round? If "everyone" could "notice'' how solid Fields would become on the boards & both sides of the ball... He would have went top 10 of the 1st if not top 5.

    Nice way to approach MDA as head coach though. Blame MDA for "never playing" Mozgov & Randolph but fail to talk about, in a positive light, how he's played unproven young talents such as Fields & Douglas. Even Gallo & Chandler made names for themself here in NY. If MDA played Randolph & Mozgov more often, and kept Fields & Douglas on the bench more... You all would use that as an example to bash MDA without ''praising'' him for plaing Randolph & Mozgov. D'Antoni wasn't the only good head coach who let AR ride the pine. Remember that.

    You keep trying to compare & make points how PHX never had top 10 D's. Which players on PHX could Mike D have used to create a top 10 Defense? Please explain.

  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Which players on PHX could Mike D have used to create a top 10 Defense? Please explain.
    Are you serious? Raja Bell is a great defender and so is Shawn Marion, and the main reason why Amare is a bad defender is because of D'antoni not teaching defense.

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    How can you say "even a blind man such as D'Antoni could see how good Fields is"?

    Care to explain how & why he dropped so late into the 2nd round? If "everyone" could "notice'' how solid Fields would become on the boards & both sides of the ball... He would have went top 10 of the 1st if not top 5.

    Nice way to approach MDA as head coach though. Blame MDA for "never playing" Mozgov & Randolph but fail to talk about, in a positive light, how he's played unproven young talents such as Fields & Douglas. Even Gallo & Chandler made names for themself here in NY. If MDA played Randolph & Mozgov more often, and kept Fields & Douglas on the bench more... You all would use that as an example to bash MDA without ''praising'' him for plaing Randolph & Mozgov. D'Antoni wasn't the only good head coach who let AR ride the pine. Remember that.

    You keep trying to compare & make points how PHX never had top 10 D's. Which players on PHX could Mike D have used to create a top 10 Defense? Please explain.
    Queens. D'antoni picked the players on that team... you can't have it both ways. You can't say this was his team, but he didn't have good defenders... Marion was/is a great defender. Re Fields... did you see him in the summer league? I did. He was an incredible find. MDA really would have been an idiot not to play him. He would have needed to been blind to not play the kid.

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    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    Are you serious? Raja Bell is a great defender and so is Shawn Marion, and the main reason why Amare is a bad defender is because of D'antoni not teaching defense.
    Get ready for an MDA hater accusatory post coming.


    KnicksFanFromQueens loves making false accusations.


    Whether it's sending me a PM with a personal attack accusing me of of being a troll, or accusing us of being a MDA hater when we just discuss facts.

  13. #43
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    You all keep crying & calling for a top 10 defense.

    Who was the last great Knicks big man?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in defense?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in rebounds?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in blocked shots?

    After you answer those questions... Answer this question;

    When did Mike D'Antoni arrive in New York?

    Since you all seem to be defensive experts around here... Can any of you actually tell me, over the past 3 years since D'Antoni has been here... How he could have turned us into a top 10 defense?

    With which 30-35 different players could MDA have used to ''form a top 10 defense"?

    C- Lee / Mozgov / Curry
    PF- Amare / Jeffries / Turiaf
    SF- Melo / Randolph / Shawne Williams
    SG- Fields/ Brewer / Azu
    PG- Dougla / Carter /Billups

    Is that the type of defensive team you've wanted MDA to "work with"? If so... Please explain how Walsh could have made that happen? Keep in mind the NBA does have a salary cap. Don't forget to account for injuries too.

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    So I guess coaches should never get fired until they get a chance at working with a star studded team?



    Since you use all of his stats in Phoenix to back up his offensive resume, why can't you list those players too for his defensive resume?


    edit: I also hope you are not using blocked shots as an indicator of great defense.

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    You all keep crying & calling for a top 10 defense.

    Who was the last great Knicks big man?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in defense?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in rebounds?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in blocked shots?

    After you answer those questions... Answer this question;

    When did Mike D'Antoni arrive in New York?

    Since you all seem to be defensive experts around here... Can any of you actually tell me, over the past 3 years since D'Antoni has been here... How he could have turned us into a top 10 defense?

    With which 30-35 different players could MDA have used to ''form a top 10 defense"?

    C- Lee / Mozgov / Curry
    PF- Amare / Jeffries / Turiaf
    SF- Melo / Randolph / Shawne Williams
    SG- Fields/ Brewer / Azu
    PG- Dougla / Carter /Billups

    Is that the type of defensive team you've wanted MDA to "work with"? If so... Please explain how Walsh could have made that happen? Keep in mind the NBA does have a salary cap. Don't forget to account for injuries too.
    The point we are trying to make is you need a top 10 defensive team to win rings. That is the ultimate goal, yes? MDA has never shown the slightest predilection towards team D. He. Has never had a top ten D team in his entire career. Never shown he could have a top ten D team.

    Answer me this: Why should I believe he can do that with this team?

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