Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 116

Thread: Basketball Champions Offensive and Defensive ratings (last 15 years)

  1. #46
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    FLorida. Thank god for the NBA league pass & MSG network.
    Posts
    1,112
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Once again. Since you act like it's D'Antoni's system...

    When was the last time NY had a big man that could dominate on defense?

    When was the last time NY ranked as a top 10 defense?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in rebounds?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in point allowed per game?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in steals or blocked shots?

    When did MDA become the Knicks head coach?

  2. #47
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    33
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Once again. Since you act like it's D'Antoni's system...

    When was the last time NY had a big man that could dominate on defense?

    When was the last time NY ranked as a top 10 defense?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in rebounds?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in point allowed per game?

    When was the last time NY ranked top 10 in steals or blocked shots?

    When did MDA become the Knicks head coach?
    Since you can ask us multiple questions a post after not answering the ones we ask you, let me narrow it down to one that hopefully you can answer.

    What does any of this have to do with what we are trying to tell you?


    It's also funny how you act like without a dominant defensive big there is no reason to be in the top 10. Name me 10 dominant defensive bigs in the NBA...

  3. #48
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,758
    Rep Power
    11

    Nyk Logo Good OP Musketeer..

    It's hard to argue w history. But I will say this, it would have been damn near impossible for those old Phoenix teams to crack the top ten in defensive rating w Nash and Amare needing to play big minutes. They both sucked on D and it was extremely difficult to keep them from being the focal point of the other team's offensive attack when they were out there.

    Lets see what Coach can do w better defensive playerz.. We seem to have a squad now that can play a more balanced game offensively and defensively.

    Billups - an aging but solid, smart and vocal defensive leader

    Fields - the rook flat gives his all on every possession

    Melo - He's capable of good 1:1 d, but he needs to work on focusing on every possession on on that end. Sometimes he gets beat back door because his head's not in to it. He's capable of the odd steal from the passing lane, or by cheating off of his man to strip the ball from a player who's just received a pass.

    Amare - He's become a better shot blocker- 4th overall in blocked shots. He talks more on the defensive end now. He's now a capable help defender too. He's just better now at the defensive end. He understands now the importance of him being a better two way player.

    JJ- He's a extremely capable help defender. He can defend the perimeter well. He's not the best post defender. He's good at clogging the lane and drawing charges. He communicates very well on the defensive end.

    TD - excellent hounding 1:1 defender that will continue to improve w more experience. He's still sometimes goes under screens. Needs to work on his p&r defense.

    Turiaf - displays all out hustle every possession. Very vocal. He's a capable shot blocker.

    Mason, Williams, - are very solid defensively also..

    The point of the above is to illustrate the potential this team has defensively. A solid defense starts, first and foremost w the playerz a team has. Having a guy like Billups instead of Nash makes a world of difference defensively. Having Amare improve his shot blocking and overall defensive mindset also makes a significant impact.

    Greg Popovich can be the greatest defensive coach in the world but if he had Nash, who can't stay in front of anybody, and a young Amare who cared nothing about D instead of Parker and Duncan, he wouldn't get the same results. Pop also had guys like Horry, and Bowen - great individual defenders.

    The crux of the whole discussion is that you can't have a top ten ranked team in d-rating while having two players that are extremely integral to the team's success due to their offensive prowess, who can't or won't play D.

    Mike D came close w that 13th ranked d-rating team, but Nash and Amare were basically too much to overcome. Lets see what he can do w a better, more focused overall group. Next season if Coach can't get very close to (atleast 11th or 12th) or in the top 10 in d-rating i'll seriously second guess his long-term viability as well. He also needs to expand the rotation, which i've been saying for a while now too..

    One last thing, imagine if you take Nash off of those old Phoenix teams and plug in Chris Paul. How much better would they have been defensively then? I think a couple of those teams could have cracked the top ten in d-rating easily due to Paul being a much better two way player that you wouldn't have to hide on the defensive end. See what i'm saying..? As much as it's about Coach it's more about the playerz.

  4. #49
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    FLorida. Thank god for the NBA league pass & MSG network.
    Posts
    1,112
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    It really doesn't matter if you think or do not think D'Antoni can form a top 10 defense with ''this team''.

    Every Knicks fan out there, has known we've needed a true big man for us to get to the next level on defense. Thats what the offseason is for. Why do you think thousands & thousands of Knick fans pray for either Dalembert, Jordan, or Marc Gasol during potential free agency? Some even dream of Dwight Howard. You know why? Because we as Knick fans... know enough about the game of basketball, the previous 20+ Championship teams, as well as our current roster; to know that MDA (or ANY other coach) will need a legit big man @ the Center position, for the 1st time since Ewing; inorder to get to the next level on defense.

    It's a shame Curry had heart problems, injuries & a monster contract. No one expected D'Antoni to have a ''top 10 defense" in less than 3 years after becoming coach.

    Stop trying to 'act' like you "expected" MDA, or any other coach; to lead NY to a "top 10" D' in LESS than 3 years.

  5. #50
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    It really doesn't matter if you think or do not think D'Antoni can form a top 10 defense with ''this team''.

    Every Knicks fan out there, has known we've needed a true big man for us to get to the next level on defense. Thats what the offseason is for. Why do you think thousands & thousands of Knick fans pray for either Dalembert, Jordan, or Marc Gasol during potential free agency? Some even dream of Dwight Howard. You know why? Because we as Knick fans... know enough about the game of basketball, the previous 20+ Championship teams, as well as our current roster; to know that MDA (or ANY other coach) will need a legit big man @ the Center position, for the 1st time since Ewing; inorder to get to the next level on defense.

    It's a shame Curry had heart problems, injuries & a monster contract. No one expected D'Antoni to have a ''top 10 defense" in less than 3 years after becoming coach.

    Stop trying to 'act' like you "expected" MDA, or any other coach; to lead NY to a "top 10" D' in LESS than 3 years.
    Again, it's not that he wasn't supposed to, it's that every indicating factor goes to show he just doesn't have it in him to do it in the future. Moreover, I am looking at past precedent to make my opinion... he couldn't do it with Phoenix. Won't be able to do it now. We need a different coach; or in the very least, an EXCELLENT defensive minded assistant coach.

    He was basically kicked out of Phoenix because he teach defense... When they asked him to change his philosophy he basically acted stubbornly and said, "No."

    Why waste another year on a coach who won't bring us a championship. We have a core group of guys who can bring us far on offensive power. Now we just need a defensive coach to bring them together as a cohesive defensive unit. I just can't see any possible way that person ends up being MDA.

    I put it out there. If I am wrong, I will apologize you and everyone else on this board who thinks I'm hating on D'Antoni.

    If you have faith that you are so right about this, I think you should do the same... that is if you're wrong. But, history has shown that middle of the pack defense and a top rate offense can't cut it in the playoffs. Just can't.

    I want a championship. It's been forty freaking years. I don't want to waste another year on a guy who has already shown he doesn't have the mindset for winning championships.

  6. #51
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    It's hard to argue w history. But I will say this, it would have been damn near impossible for those old Phoenix teams to crack the top ten in defensive rating w Nash and Amare needing to play big minutes. They both sucked on D and it was extremely difficult to keep them from being the focal point of the other team's offensive attack when they were out there.

    Lets see what Coach can do w better defensive playerz.. We seem to have a squad now that can play a more balanced game offensively and defensively.

    Billups - an aging but solid, smart and vocal defensive leader

    Fields - the rook flat gives his all on every possession

    Melo - He's capable of good 1:1 d, but he needs to work on focusing on every possession on on that end. Sometimes he gets beat back door because his head's not in to it. He's capable of the odd steal from the passing lane, or by cheating off of his man to strip the ball from a player who's just received a pass.

    Amare - He's become a better shot blocker- 4th overall in blocked shots. He talks more on the defensive end now. He's now a capable help defender too. He's just better now at the defensive end. He understands now the importance of him being a better two way player.

    JJ- He's a extremely capable help defender. He can defend the perimeter well. He's not the best post defender. He's good at clogging the lane and drawing charges. He communicates very well on the defensive end.

    TD - excellent hounding 1:1 defender that will continue to improve w more experience. He's still sometimes goes under screens. Needs to work on his p&r defense.

    Turiaf - displays all out hustle every possession. Very vocal. He's a capable shot blocker.

    Mason, Williams, - are very solid defensively also..

    The point of the above is to illustrate the potential this team has defensively. A solid defense starts, first and foremost w the playerz a team has. Having a guy like Billups instead of Nash makes a world of difference defensively. Having Amare improve his shot blocking and overall defensive mindset also makes a significant impact.

    Greg Popovich can be the greatest defensive coach in the world but if he had Nash, who can't stay in front of anybody, and a young Amare who cared nothing about D instead of Parker and Duncan, he wouldn't get the same results. Pop also had guys like Horry, and Bowen - great individual defenders.

    The crux of the whole discussion is that you can't have a top ten ranked team in d-rating while having two players that are extremely integral to the team's success due to their offensive prowess, who can't or won't play D.

    Mike D came close w that 13th ranked d-rating team, but Nash and Amare were basically too much to overcome. Lets see what he can do w a better, more focused overall group. Next season if Coach can't get very close to (atleast 11th or 12th) or in the top 10 in d-rating i'll seriously second guess his long-term viability as well. He also needs to expand the rotation, which i've been saying for a while now too..

    One last thing, imagine if you take Nash off of those old Phoenix teams and plug in Chris Paul. How much better would they have been defensively then? I think a couple of those teams could have cracked the top ten in d-rating easily due to Paul being a much better two way player that you wouldn't have to hide on the defensive end. See what i'm saying..? As much as it's about Coach it's more about the playerz.
    God, I hope you're wrong about the part I highlighted, because our offense is dependent on two guys who are notoriously known for a lack of defense at this point.

    You are right that we have pieces and players who seem genuinely interested in playing defense. But isn't that even more reason to get a seasoned coach on the defensive end?

    MDA's past shows that, for whatever reason (they had great defenders on PHX in Marion and Bell), his offense and lack of attention on the defensive end will get the Knicks into middle of the pack on defense, at best. We are bottom third right now in defense.

    So why expect a leopard to change his spots and waste valuable time, which will ultimately prove to be fruitless. As I put in the above post... 40 years since our last 'chip. MDA's history shows little chance of getting this team and future Center working together as a cohesive defensive unit. Why waste the year on a hope and a prayer he will do something with this team that he couldn't do in PHX?

    Isn't it safer to just get a proven defensive coach?
    Last edited by MusketeerX; Mar 13, 2011 at 01:38.

  7. #52
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    FLorida. Thank god for the NBA league pass & MSG network.
    Posts
    1,112
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I guess these guys are saying Rex is not a good head coach for the Jets.

    I'm not trying to compare B-Ball to Football; simply using sports as a whole as an example.

    MDA led PHX to the Western Conf Finals with top 5 offensive attacks 2 out of 4 years.

    Rex led NY to the AFCCG with top 5 D's during his 1st two years.

    Both never got it done during two Conf Championship games. So much for defense winning championships in the NFL because Manning & the Colts say otherwise. I guess the Jets should "fire" Rex. Not a 'winner'.

    Sloan had one of the greatest PG's of all-time in Stockton & one of the greatest PF's ever in Malone. Everyone knows Sloan was a great coach. How many championships did Sloan win? How many years did Sloan coach?

    It took Ewing 9 years before leading NY to the Finals; where we lost to the Rockets in 94. I love Ewing but our D's were always top 5 under both Riley & JFG. That still never stopped CHI from beating us. We needed another OFFENSIVE star to 'out-score' MJ & the Bulls. Fact.

  8. #53
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    I guess these guys are saying Rex is not a good head coach for the Jets.

    I'm not trying to compare B-Ball to Football; simply using sports as a whole as an example.

    MDA led PHX to the Western Conf Finals with top 5 offensive attacks 2 out of 4 years.

    Rex led NY to the AFCCG with top 5 D's during his 1st two years.

    Both never got it done during two Conf Championship games. So much for defense winning championships in the NFL because Manning & the Colts say otherwise. I guess the Jets should "fire" Rex. Not a 'winner'.

    Sloan had one of the greatest PG's of all-time in Stockton & one of the greatest PF's ever in Malone. Everyone knows Sloan was a great coach. How many championships did Sloan win? How many years did Sloan coach?

    It took Ewing 9 years before leading NY to the Finals; where we lost to the Rockets in 94. I love Ewing but our D's were always top 5 under both Riley & JFG. That still never stopped CHI from beating us. We needed another OFFENSIVE star to 'out-score' MJ & the Bulls. Fact.
    Basketball and football are very different things. Sloan and Ewing made it to the finals because of defense. Kind of goes against your point re D'Antoni don't you think. You can have blind faith in D'Antoni, but the evidence shows you that you don't stand a good chance of being right.

    Again, if you are so sure, I think you should step up and apologize when you're wrong -- that is if you end up being wrong.

  9. #54
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    FLorida. Thank god for the NBA league pass & MSG network.
    Posts
    1,112
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    @Musk. If you were a fan of NE; you would have ran BB out of town before his coaching career with NE started. You would have bashed BB after his 1st losing season with NE."If he never got it done in PHX... What makes you think he'll get it done in NY?" lol, you would have been the 1st fan to say "if BB never got it done with Cleveland during his first 4-5 years, what makes you think he'll get it done in NE"? Thats what you sound like...

    Just like BB got blessed with a HOF QB & started winning rings... With our current team? Give MDA a future HOF C (Howard) or even an All-Star/PRODUCTIVE type of C; & MDA wins a ring too.

    Say what you say about his coaching... Still doesn't change the fact that he led PHX to 4 consecutive trips to the playoffs, two Western Conf Finals, a game 7 against the SPURS, coach of the year honors, with a winning % of .650+ during his 1st 4 full seasons PHX. Still doesn't change the fact that he's never had a chance to win in NY, but he's winning now, before Melo; with no Center @ all.

  10. #55
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    33
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    So Bill Belichick + Tom Brady = Deandre Jordan + Mike Antoni?

  11. #56
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    @Musk. If you were a fan of NE; you would have ran BB out of town before his coaching career with NE started. You would have bashed BB after his 1st losing season with NE."If he never got it done in PHX... What makes you think he'll get it done in NY?" lol, you would have been the 1st fan to say "if BB never got it done with Cleveland during his first 4-5 years, what makes you think he'll get it done in NE"? Thats what you sound like...

    Just like BB got blessed with a HOF QB & started winning rings... With our current team? Give MDA a future HOF C (Howard) or even an All-Star/PRODUCTIVE type of C; & MDA wins a ring too.

    Say what you say about his coaching... Still doesn't change the fact that he led PHX to 4 consecutive trips to the playoffs, two Western Conf Finals, a game 7 against the SPURS, coach of the year honors, with a winning % of .650+ during his 1st 4 full seasons PHX. Still doesn't change the fact that he's never had a chance to win in NY, but he's winning now, before Melo; with no Center @ all.
    Different sports. I don't pretend to know much about football. I don't watch it. I do watch basketball religiously. I know basketball quite well. MDA didn't just have one year. He had 4 with PHX. He never got to the finals... never became a western conference champion... because he lacked defense. You can say injuries all you want, but good defensive teams win despite them... Look at the Lakers last year. Look at the Knicks w/o Ewing.

    Everything you're saying doesn't change the fact MDA's lack of defensive strategies has cost him and his players championships.

    I will say this, though... Dwight Howard -- C. He is a game changer for any club. If we can get him, it doesn't matter who is coaching us. But with the cap and everything else, it is very unlikely.

  12. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    FLorida. Thank god for the NBA league pass & MSG network.
    Posts
    1,112
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Why do I have to say sorry to a fan like you, who's already quit on the team under MDA; before we've even seen how we compete during the playoffs under MDA.

    You act like the Knicks haven't played .600 basketball under MDA since the Melo trade. How many games has our veteran leader @ the PG position in Billups missed since the trade?

    Just because you don't understand that we have 5 starters who weren't here last year (3 starters have only been here for 10 games) & no talented Center... Doesn't mean I need to say "sorry" for giving MDA a chane to have success out of the Eastern Conf.

    Maybe you didn't Musk: but ALL Knicks fans knew we needed 4 things to happen... before we could EVER compete for a Championship when MDA took the job less than 3 years ago.

    -Get out of Cap hell.
    -Turn over the roster.
    -Land two elite superstars.

    -Replace Curry with a true Center.

    3 of 4 goals have been reached.

    We still need a C who can bang down low, box out, rebound, challenge drives & shots, fill lanes & block shots...

  13. #58
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Why do I have to say sorry to a fan like you, who's already quit on the team under MDA; before we've even seen how we compete during the playoffs under MDA.

    You act like the Knicks haven't played .600 basketball under MDA since the Melo trade. How many games has our veteran leader @ the PG position in Billups missed since the trade?

    Just because you don't understand that we have 5 starters who weren't here last year (3 starters have only been here for 10 games) & no talented Center... Doesn't mean I need to say "sorry" for giving MDA a chane to have success out of the Eastern Conf.

    Maybe you didn't Musk: but ALL Knicks fans knew we needed 4 things to happen... before we could EVER compete for a Championship when MDA took the job less than 3 years ago.

    -Get out of Cap hell.
    -Turn over the roster.
    -Land two elite superstars.

    -Replace Curry with a true Center.

    3 of 4 goals have been reached.

    We still need a C who can bang down low, box out, rebound, challenge drives & shots, fill lanes & block shots...
    You should apologize because you'd be wrong and you are giving me and others, true fans of the team, who want what's best for the team, so much guff for only wanting a better team and understanding how good basketball teams win championships.

    To be critical is not to hate. It is a necessary quality to getting better.

  14. #59
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    FLorida. Thank god for the NBA league pass & MSG network.
    Posts
    1,112
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    So... Your saying injuries ''don't matter''?

    Like really?

    You say a good defensive coach gets it done despite injuries?

    Well, then... Explain why MDA & the Knicks are 2-0 against the Chicago Bulls led by a so called great defensive master mind of a head coach. They may have been without Noah or Boozer but we were also without Carmelo & Billups. It doesn't matter who both teams were without though; because great defensive coaches win despite injuries happening.

  15. #60
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    So... Your saying injuries ''don't matter''?

    Like really?

    You say a good defensive coach gets it done despite injuries?

    Well, then... Explain why MDA & the Knicks are 2-0 against the Chicago Bulls led by a so called great defensive master mind of a head coach. They may have been without Noah or Boozer but we were also without Carmelo & Billups. It doesn't matter who both teams were without though; because great defensive coaches win despite injuries happening.
    No injuries don't matter. Great teams push through them. And trust me. Regular season is not playoff basketball....

Similar Threads

  1. What a defensive coach can do for you
    By MusketeerX in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: Mar 15, 2011, 09:50
  2. What has Damntoni Done?
    By Knicksfansince92 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 150
    Last Post: Feb 17, 2011, 22:47
  3. MIKE D plays DEFENSIVE Players so STOPPP THE NONSENSE.
    By DontForgetDerekHarper in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: Jan 18, 2011, 12:25
  4. PLAN-B: Joe Johnson, Amar'e, D-Lee !!!
    By mafra in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Jun 27, 2010, 21:01
  5. KnicksOnline Fantasy Basketball 08-09 Season
    By metrocard in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 225
    Last Post: Dec 29, 2008, 15:44

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •