Basketball Champions Offensive and Defensive ratings (last 15 years)

PaPZ187

Benchwarmer
I was looking at MDAs rosters at Phoenix. You guys do realize all this talk about getting a big that eats up space, rebounds and plays defense is probably moot. That just isnt MDAs cup of tea. He ran STAT in the ground for 3-4 years before getting Shaq who he didnt want at all. He'd rather play a Jared Jefferies type player that can shoot. Dont be surprised when we dont sign any of the bigs we're all clamoring for...

That is the impression I have been under as well. MDA likes playing small lineups where his 5 can run and shoot and has always had teams with these type of players besides the 1 year he had Shaq, which he didnt want him and it was a total failure.

I do want him to atleast finish out the season and give him a chance to show some flashes that this team can compete on D on a more consistent level with their effort, but I truley dont see this happening.
 
This thread was a thread well put together. Credit to the OP, but this thread is nothing more than a moot point. When was the last time NY finished with a top 10 D'? Thats a stat I'd like to see; just to prove that our D' has been horrible way before MDA ever arrived. When MDA took this job not even 3 years ago... NY was an NBA laughing stock. In 2008... No coach in the world could have formed a top 10 D' with that "roster. Last year in 09, MDA, or any other coach for that matter could have never forced a top 10 D'. Never. Impossible. When MDA took the job... He was forced to work with a roster & franchise that was in deep cap hell. No chance. MDA was forced to turn over & scrap the entire team... & thats exactly what he did. He's played over 30 different starters in less than 3 years. Guys such as Randolph may have slid through the cracks but he made sure young talents such as Fields & Douglas stuck. He developed guys like Mozgov, Chandler & Gallo which were all used to land an elite star. Never had a chance
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
This thread was a thread well put together. Credit to the OP, but this thread is nothing more than a moot point. When was the last time NY finished with a top 10 D'? Thats a stat I'd like to see; just to prove that our D' has been horrible way before MDA ever arrived. When MDA took this job not even 3 years ago... NY was an NBA laughing stock. In 2008... No coach in the world could have formed a top 10 D' with that "roster. Last year in 09, MDA, or any other coach for that matter could have never forced a top 10 D'. Never. Impossible. When MDA took the job... He was forced to work with a roster & franchise that was in deep cap hell. No chance. MDA was forced to turn over & scrap the entire team... & thats exactly what he did. He's played over 30 different starters in less than 3 years. Guys such as Randolph may have slid through the cracks but he made sure young talents such as Fields & Douglas stuck. He developed guys like Mozgov, Chandler & Gallo which were all used to land an elite star. Never had a chance

Are you just copying and pasting your old posts? What would you suggest, we never try to get better at defense? I mean.We haven't been top ten in defense since the Ewing days... so why should we ever try, right? It's impossible...
 
I'm just saying... MDA isn't the reason why we haven't had a top 10 D. The Center position is.

Since you know oh so much about defense... Please... Explain in your own words how in 08 & 09, with the cap hell rosters that MDA had... How he could have formed top 10 D's.

I'll continue to wait Musk... Because that post will never come. Admit the truth; MDA has never had a chance in hell to form a top 10 D with NY.

We all know Duncan & KG were both amazing defensive (and offensive) PF's... But since your talking about the past 15 championships... Care to list who those BIG MEN @ the Center position were? Because I have no problem listing some of the scrub C's MDA's been forced to work with.

Curry.
Darko.
Mozgov.
Turiaf.
Randolph.
JJ.

He's never had a CHANCE to land a legit-true Center. Never. This offseason will become MDA's first chance @ landing a true center.
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
I'm just saying... MDA isn't the reason why we haven't had a top 10 D. The Center position is.

Since you know oh so much about defense... Please... Explain in your own words how in 08 & 09, with the cap hell rosters that MDA had... How he could have formed top 10 D's.

I'll continue to wait Musk... Because that post will never come. Admit the truth; MDA has never had a chance in hell to form a top 10 D with NY.

We all know Duncan & KG were both amazing defensive (and offensive) PF's... But since your talking about the past 15 championships... Care to list who those BIG MEN @ the Center position were? Because I have no problem listing some of the scrub C's MDA's been forced to work with.

Curry.
Darko.
Mozgov.
Turiaf.
Randolph.
JJ.

He's never had a CHANCE to land a legit-true Center. Never. This offseason will become MDA's first chance @ landing a true center.

You watch these games and you have rose colored glasses on. That's cool. I understand. It's, IMO, a bit naive, but I understand. You don't need a true center to have some kind of defensive strategy. MDA is and always has been our problem.

How is it that you can see stats where every single player who comes to his team ends up having worse defensive stats than their previous years, and then still try to deny the hard numbers right before your eyes. How come you can see Noah's defensive stats raise, Rose's stats defensive stats raise, despite having the same team as last year and still live in a state of denial?

It is the duty of a GM to make a team better. If it were up to you, Vinnie Del Negro would still be coaching the Bulls and they wouldn't be an elite team in the East. The Knicks need a better defensive coach to make them a better team.

How can you look at the loss tonight where we let up 119 points to the frigging Pacers and suggest we don't need to be better defensively -- or at least make an active effort to do something better defensively???? A new coach is the best bet we have at this point.
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
Musk, we were outrebounded by the pacers. we had more steals and more blocks than indi. The intensity is there, but if we dont have a centre, we dont stand a chance.

Past 20 years, no nba title was won without a good 5 man
 
Everyone knows the Knicks need to improve on defense. Why do you think I'm praying for one of Gasol, Jordan, Nene or Dalembert? Because they would improve our defense by leaps & bounds. I know enough about the game of basketball, to know that a front-line of JJ, Amare, Turiaf & Shelden will never get it done. Not even if you have another superstar like Melo on the team.

Inorder to land either Gasol or Jordan this year, we'll have to do one of two things.

1) Let Billups walk. We can't afford a BIG man when Billups is due I believe 12M next season. Douglas is not the type of offensive leader @ the Point that Billups is, but TD is 10x the defender that an aging Billups could ever be. Advantage Knicks defense.

Move Turiaf during the offseason if he decides to pick up his player-option. That would leave us 4M to land another BIG for cheap such as Camby.

C- Jordan
PF- Amare
SF- Carmelo
SG- Fields
PG- Douglas

Thats a top 10 defensive starting 5 right there. MDA never had a chance with NY. Never.
 
On a side note: since guys like Musk wanna judge MDA on his body of work in PHX & say stuff like...

"he'll never form a top 10 defense in NY, all because he failed to so do in NY"..

Well, then... I guess it's safe to say that MDA will lead the Knicks to the playoffs 4 consecutive years in a row with 54+ W's, career winning % of .650 after 5 years & take us to the Western Conf Finals two times. I mean, lets be honest here... He did it with PHX so it's a known; given fact & a gurantee that he'll lead the Knicks to two Easten Conf Finals.

I'll take it. Because he won't be running into a Dynasty Spurs team. Not here in the East.

I'm being sarcastic, but thats how much sense your arguments make...
 
Musk, we were outrebounded by the pacers. we had more steals and more blocks than indi. The intensity is there, but if we dont have a centre, we dont stand a chance.

Past 20 years, no nba title was won without a good 5 man
Thats no excuse, we outrebounded them last game and we still lost.
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
On a side note: since guys like Musk wanna judge MDA on his body of work in PHX & say stuff like...

"he'll never form a top 10 defense in NY, all because he failed to so do in NY"..

Well, then... I guess it's safe to say that MDA will lead the Knicks to the playoffs 4 consecutive years in a row with 54+ W's, career winning % of .650 after 5 years & take us to the Western Conf Finals two times. I mean, lets be honest here... He did it with PHX so it's a known; given fact & a gurantee that he'll lead the Knicks to two Easten Conf Finals.

I'll take it. Because he won't be running into a Dynasty Spurs team. Not here in the East.

I'm being sarcastic, but thats how much sense your arguments make...

I want a center, but you guys act like everything is going to be rainbows and championships should we get one. Give us a championship. We got Samuel Dalambert!!!! We are the best team in the world! Hallelueja!

No. Just no.

Look at the Clippers. Deandre Jordan. A guy we'd like to have. Blake Griffin is very simliar to Amar'e, except he boards. Essentially those two guys should solve the problems you guys so like to use as excuses instead of placing blame squarely where it falls: MDA. They both board, and one is a 7'0'' shot blocker.

They don't play defense and they are where they are:105.7 (21st of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 109.0 (19th of 30). I would imagine, with our coach, we would be right around the 17th mark.

When in the world have I downplayed player contribution??? I never have. I just know that even with a center we still need defensive strategies... strategies that MDA can't come up with (See last night). We got burned by the same pick and roll played that the Pacers killed us with on Sunday, and Cleveland slaughtered us with the week before. MDA didn't make any adjustments.

A center does not solve our problems... It helps, but we have more major issues.
 
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jimkcchief88

All Star
Just like the old adage says: Offense wins games, DEFENSE wins championships. I will add the offense sells tickets, which seems what our Knicks are are more concerned about at this time that winning. Lookit, its gonna take some time for these guys to learn to play good team defense, as none of our frontliners are known to play good defense. We knew that when we got STAT/MELO. Having a "European" coach that doesn't care about defense doesn't help matters either. But at this point in the season it is what it is. We just need get in the playoffs and see what happens...
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
Thats no excuse, we outrebounded them last game and we still lost.

damn, i had to check that.....its rare, but u do have a point.
ur right.....man, losing hurts bro
we need a defensive big man, and a defensive coach
idc what gets addressed first
once they address both issues
 

moneyg

Starter
damn, i had to check that.....its rare, but u do have a point.
ur right.....man, losing hurts bro
we need a defensive big man, and a defensive coach
idc what gets addressed first
once they address both issues

im glad ur comin around... and stopped takin up for this bum.. he is the reason why we dont have a center.. because he plays small ball...
 

Red

TYPE-A
Bumped... this is a great thread

I want a center, but you guys act like everything is going to be rainbows and championships should we get one. Give us a championship. We got Samuel Dalambert!!!! We are the best team in the world! Hallelueja!

No. Just no.

Look at the Clippers. Deandre Jordan. A guy we'd like to have. Blake Griffin is very simliar to Amar'e, except he boards. Essentially those two guys should solve the problems you guys so like to use as excuses instead of placing blame squarely where it falls: MDA. They both board, and one is a 7'0'' shot blocker.

They don't play defense and they are where they are:105.7 (21st of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 109.0 (19th of 30). I would imagine, with our coach, we would be right around the 17th mark.

When in the world have I downplayed player contribution??? I never have. I just know that even with a center we still need defensive strategies... strategies that MDA can't come up with (See last night). We got burned by the same pick and roll played that the Pacers killed us with on Sunday, and Cleveland slaughtered us with the week before. MDA didn't make any adjustments.

A center does not solve our problems... It helps, but we have more major issues.

I will mention our need to first replace D'Antoni every chance I get, get use to it.

Before we move forward, and try and acquire a PG or a C, replace Mike D'Antoni.

We don't want anymore, one dimensional players, specific to this system.

Two way players only.

no offense but a Shawn Williams, or Jeffries, or any one who can't demonstrate an ability to both play D and perform on the offensive end, CANNOT BE ON THIS TEAM.

When we prospect who we get in the future, if this guy can't play defense, he shouldn't be on our team, and that message of just be able to shoot threes shouldn't be sent out. It was because of our coach- which lead us to squander player opportunities that we can no longer afford.

Establish a defensive culture, start by firing Mike D'Antoni.

 
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