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Thread: VOLUME 2 Another DFDH must read....I rest my case : Fire This F---ing bum.

  1. #31
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Wearing your emotions on your sleeve much???

    Dude, you're more reactionary than a just quaaluded Khadafi on the brink of raging on some peaceful pro-Democracy protesters..

    It's only been 14 games since the trade for Melo and Billups.. What'd you expect the transition to be seamless/perfect??

    The only way D'antoni is fired is if we don't make the playoffs. Capiche??

    14 games
    it hasnt been 14 games

    its been 232 games of no defense what so ever.

    I dont wanna hear it

    its been longer than that since zeke, and lenny wilkens, and larry brown, and don nelson ?


    how long have you been a knicks fan, or been alive, or been aware, do you even live in new york, have you spent money on over 100 tickets in your life time, if you arent emotional and pissed after going 0-5 against sub 500 teams since the melo trade

    THEN YOU ARENT A REAL KNICKS FAN

    see its funny every one wants to compare us to the heat

    oh they had issues coming together

    no
    the heat BLEW OUT TERRIBLE TEAMS BECAUSE THEY UTILIZED THERE ABILITY TO OVER POWER WEAKER TEAMS


    we shrink at the moment of a weaker team its ridiculous and it falls with the preparedness of our coach to get our players ready to dominate smaller teams

    the heat couldnt win against top teir teams, but small fish , DOMINATe

    we Should kill the PACERS PISTONS AND CAVS

    yet we lose miserably to them.


    its just sad and if youre not emotional,

    please find another forum to post your ridiculous assinine nonsensical foolish remarks about "wearing hearts on sleeve"

    im a knick fan damn it.

    I have had orange and blue on my sleeve for 20 years and its not going any where

    if you have other ideas go root for the lakers or celtics.

    enough is enough

  2. #32
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Default Some say "what would Jesus do"? I Say...

    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    ^

    Issue is....

    We are a weak defensive team. And very good offensive team.

    All coaching aside. This is what we are as constructed by Walsh and who plays basketball for the NYK.

    So at the end of games, close games, when you say you want MDA to to "defensive' and such,

    Sure, he can go big(ger) and defensive,

    But the overall potency of our team will suffer, due to the glaring and inherent lopsided talent of our team,

    Which resides with offense. In a tight game especially, you stick with your bread and butter -- which tonight got burned,

    Mainly bc two superstar 25+pt players played like sloppy dog****.

    Ce la ****ing vie.

    I can't prove, but you can expect, us to still lose, albeit in different style, if MDA altered his rotations, per the defensive mania many crave.

    And, based off my above, it'd reason we'd lose more.
    Ehemm....

    All coaching aside? We are a weak defensive team?

    One DOES have to do with the other, correct?

    I would like you to look at things from an exaggerated perspective for a second... just a sec...

    IF we had "THE BEST DEFENSIVE COACH POSSIBLE, maybe a Thib's or whoever...

    Are you telling me we would STILL be a weak defensive team, with the same exact roster? Be honest. Just take a sec (not that Im saying we need to fire or get rid of or blame MDA for ANYTHING) just to partly asses our team, coach included...

    if that were the case... sure you could infer we may not score the same etc, etc... some stats might not be the same, namely increased stats that facilitated trades (I understand), but really do you think we would look how we do? Get beat HOW WE Do?

    Imagine how intense and no frills that type of coach would probably be. Imagine how a player could impress THIS type of coach and what said player would have to show in practice and even when scouted for this type of coach.

    Do you see it? How the whole team attitude and approach would change, how our reputation would change? The types of players going forward we would covet and who would LOVE to play here?

    When I do, I see a MUCH different picture (and Im not even talking championship).

    What would a Phil Jackson, Popovich, or a proven top tier coach do?

    If you are honest, only one logical conclusion can be assumed...

    a better coach will get better results. Period. How exactly, using what combinations exactly is up for speculation.

    But a better coach, should bring better results, regardless of who's to blame for a specific loss.

    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    +1

    Keep classing these threads up broheem.

    Lotta foos jumping ship of late.
    An observation, a negative assessment, hardly equates to "jumping ship"

    Except for being subjective, nothing is proven by standing by, blindly rooting for a team with obvious deficiencies, even the untrained eye can recognize.

    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    NO. You go defensive, get the stop, get the rebound, call time out and put the scorers in. In games like this its done 99.9999999% of the time. I didnt invent this philosophy. I've seen it done a million times. Similar to putting your best foul shot shooters in the game at the end when you know the other team has to foul.

    This isnt rocket science...
    Strategy... a term too technical for debate on KOL. Coach MDA will always be ASSUMED to know more and be more qualified than anyone here...

    don't waste your time.

    But notice, YOUR strategy entails using defense AS WELL AS properly inserting the optimal mix given the specific situation, to maximize and shift to a more desirable outcome. MANY parts of coaches strategies are scrutinized.

    Bottom line...

    he's 26 - 25 in the playoffs for his career. Mediocre.

    I'll ask you...

    What would a top tier coach do? What would be different? Do you think we would still be clamoring for 2 years worth of talent or would we be competitive and be able to do the small things and NOT beat ourselves?

    I know your answer.


    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Lmao @ people talking like the world is over & the Knicks could fall out of the playoff picture... Not gonna happen.

    MDA haters may pray for that to happen, but sorry guys; it's not gonna happen.

    The Knicks are playing .500 since the Melo trade with a record of 6-2 against winning teams. Charlotte would pretty much have to win every game from here on out with the Knicks winning no more than 3 or 4 games.

    Sorry guys, but it's not about to happen. Not when Charlotte is currently 12 games below of .500
    I'm NOT a MDA hater nor (after a valid assessment) am I a supporter. I'm a Knick fan.

    You can't find any post of mine that says I hope we miss the playoffs to get rid of coach. It's hypocrisy.

    That said I offer this...

    Wins and Losses are inevitable. HOW A TEAM WINS OR LOSES is indicative of many many many factors.

    When considering...
    Playing here is different, more pressure
    Playing in NY and the East (and hoping to go far in the playoffs) MEANS defense
    The media is crazy
    Ups are way ups, downs are the lowest, its day to day fickleness...

    You get a fan base and media outlet that will continually put you under the microscope, poke and prod, and by shear demand, will, and virtue, will

    make sure they get what they want- and most certainly tell you exactly how they feel. And at this point EVERYONE (or the majority) question COACH, doubt COACH, and See COACH lacks defensive influence... (helloooooo!)

    UNTIL that changes it will never stop. Not in a place like this. It seems like "the sky is falling", but when considering the specific circumstance including this city and its fans... this is the pre-cursor to change demanded, resulting from expectations and disappointment.

    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    It's just another piece of evidence that MDA is not the right coach for this team. We've lost 5 games now (more???) against subpar teams. We lost to the friggin Pistons... they are so bad it makes my brain hurt. Perhaps some of the members of this board will start believing that a coach who doesn't coach defense can't win a championship and actually admit that us "D'Antoni Haters" were right all along. Offense only is not a suitable way to becoming a championship.

    MDA needs a specific team to coach. He needs specific players. He has never had that team in NY... Well he had that type of team before the trade, but he's just not equipped to deal with any style other than his own.

    And, the worst part is that the basketball players are picking up bad habits and starting not to care. You can see it in their collective attitude.

    Just plain bad situation.

    We have two amazing players in Amar'e and Melo. D'Antoni can't pull more wins out? Really???? I saw that same tired pick and roll defense time and time again, and we got burned on it time and time again...

    Just horrible. It makes me sick.
    Stephen A. just said

    "at some point or another, people will start questioning if D'Antoni is right for this team"?

    I like that line "right for this team"

    because it's no insult, we understand this stage isn't for everyone (see my sig, and think LeBron)

    it takes projection, forethought, and consideration of MANY not so obvious factors.

    AND now after this experiment, after all you know about our history, this city and it's fans, and the game, the answer is NO.

    Does that mean "he's to blame"? Nope
    Does it mean "he's not a good coach"? Nope
    Does' it mean "things can't be different with a Top Defensive Center"? Nope

    It means given the circumstance, given the locale and geographic location, given the reputation;

    MIKE D'ANTONI HAS YET TO PROVE HE IS CAPABLE OF GETTING THE MOST OUT OF THIS TEAM ON A CONSISTENT BASIS, AND ACTUALLY DIMINISHES A PLAYER'S DEFENSIVE ABILITIES BY VIRTUE OF HIS APPROACH AND SYSTEM. HE TOO IS UNDERPERFORMING BASED ON THE REPUTATION THAT PRECEDED HIM, BUT THEN AGAIN AS IS, HE IS A .500 COACH IN THE PLAYOFFS, NEVER WAS KNOWN FOR DEFENSE, UNPROVEN, AND RELEASED AFTER 60 WIN SEASONS.

    and we are .500...

    go figure.

    TO ISAY, RON FARINA, ETC...

    I can't wait for the day we can upgrade at the HEAD COACH position. Hopefully, if he is top tier, proven to increase a teams overall defense, and is capable and competitive offensively... if he's thick skinned, tells it like it is, takes no shorts, willing to take on the challenge and project a confidence in this squad...

    I can't wait. I would love for him to show you what we could actually be with that type of LEADER and GENERAL. MDA has peaked! Unless he's willing to go back to the drawing board, we have seen what we can be, we've scored 120 plus points, we've beat top teams, but yet we are lowest in defense, rebounds, inconsistent, in constant flux, and embarrassing. We can beat anyone and be beat by anyone, and we lack pride.

    I know your saying he doesn't exist, but even if you considered this type of coach and concluded if it were possible you'd be down, then you mind as well say...

    YOU SUPPORT MDA BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW ANYONE BETTER THAT'S AVAILABLE!
    Last edited by Red; Mar 19, 2011 at 10:46.

  3. #33
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Question Mark You just don't get it do you?

    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    14 games
    it hasnt been 14 games

    its been 232 games of no defense what so ever.

    I dont wanna hear it

    its been longer than that since zeke, and lenny wilkens, and larry brown, and don nelson ?


    how long have you been a knicks fan, or been alive, or been aware, do you even live in new york, have you spent money on over 100 tickets in your life time, if you arent emotional and pissed after going 0-5 against sub 500 teams since the melo trade

    THEN YOU ARENT A REAL KNICKS FAN

    see its funny every one wants to compare us to the heat

    oh they had issues coming together

    no
    the heat BLEW OUT TERRIBLE TEAMS BECAUSE THEY UTILIZED THERE ABILITY TO OVER POWER WEAKER TEAMS


    we shrink at the moment of a weaker team its ridiculous and it falls with the preparedness of our coach to get our players ready to dominate smaller teams

    the heat couldnt win against top teir teams, but small fish , DOMINATe

    we Should kill the PACERS PISTONS AND CAVS

    yet we lose miserably to them.


    its just sad and if youre not emotional,

    please find another forum to post your ridiculous assinine nonsensical foolish remarks about "wearing hearts on sleeve"

    im a knick fan damn it.

    I have had orange and blue on my sleeve for 20 years and its not going any where

    if you have other ideas go root for the lakers or celtics.

    enough is enough
    Fact is, if I wasn't a passionate Knick fan I wouldn't continue to post here.. Obvious enough for ya?? These useless proclamations of "i'm a bigger fan than you because I bitch louder" are simplistic and really stupid DFDH. You know this.

    I understand you're emotional. All of us on here are. But ranting like hormonal woman on a hellish cycle replete w ungodly cramps and day to day annoyingly, heavy flow is not needed.

    When you take into consideration the last two seasons, does it enter your mind that the sole goal Donnie had during that time period was shedding salary?? How can you blame Mike D for the horror show back then?

    Also, the ONLY goal we had for this season was to make the playoffs. We're in a position to so after having done most of the heavy lifting w one of the more less experienced and young rosters in the league.. I attribute this success - yes, it's success when you consider the last 10 years which i've endured painfully just like you- in part to our under-appreciated Coach. If we we're to somehow miss the playoffs, then i'll be the first to say he has to go. Otherwise, I think we all just need to sit back and watch this thing develop. Yes, be frustrated at losing, but calling for the coaches head @ every setback, when you know we just traded for two new pieces and are trying to incorporate them, is unproductive and irrational, and should be differentiated from what it means to be so-called "real" Knick fan. Call what it is... pointless, emotional bitching..
    Last edited by ronoranina; Mar 19, 2011 at 11:31.

  4. #34
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Fact is, if I wasn't a passionate Knick fan I wouldn't continue to post here.. Obvious enough for ya?? These useless proclamations of "i'm a bigger fan than you because I bitch louder" are simplistic and really stupid DFDH. You know this.

    I understand you're emotional. All of us on here are. But ranting like hormonal woman on a hellish cycle replete w ungodly cramps and day to day annoyingly, heavy flow is not needed.

    When you take into consideration the last two seasons, does it enter your mind that the sole goal Donnie had during that time period was shedding salary?? How can you blame Mike D for the horror show back then?

    Also, the ONLY goal we had for this season was to make the playoffs. We're in a position to so after having done most of the heavy lifting w one of the more less experienced and younger rosters in the league.. I attribute this success - yes, it's success when you consider the last 10 years which i've endured painfully just like you- in part to our under-appreciated Coach. If we we're to somehow miss the playoffs, then i'll be the first to say he has to go. Otherwise, I think we all just need to sit back and watch this thing develop. Yes, be frustrated at losing, but calling for the coaches head @ every setback, when you know we just traded for two new pieces and are trying to incorporate them, is unproductive and irrational, and should be differentiated from what it means to be so-called "real" Knick fan. Call what it is... pointless, emotional bitching..
    I get everything you're saying, but I think you're kind of mixing apples with oranges. When you ask "can you blame Mike for the horror show back then?" are you talking about the wins and loses or the fashion in which we won and lost? Because they're not quite the same thing.

    The Knicks lack of defensive fundamentals (mostly having to do with team defense) was there as well. But it was just too easy to sit back and say "oh, well...we're shedding salary..." but now that the purging is complete, we have some pieces, the majority of them had training camp & preseason together...and those same defensive flaws that were present in 2008 & 2009, reared their ugly heads in 2010...and they're still here in 2011.

    Even if this team acquires all of the missing pieces deemed needed, gels, and continues to play this way on the defensive end next year...we will be in no better position.

    Something is wrong out there...there are either no set defensive strategies being installed and implemented, or there are...and the guys are ignoring MDA. Because team defense has very little to do with talent, just like Billups said and I see it in your sig, most defense is positioning, awareness, and effort...if players are not in the right spots, have their heads in the clouds, and are acting like a pregnant woman in her 8th month...who's job is it to light a fire under those dude's asses to get back to the plan installed for this game? You don't need STAT, Melo, Billups, a defensive 5, and whoever else all to be on the same team, nice and gelled, for 2 seasons to hold people accountable and get back to your game plan.

    I can live with a team playing the way the Knicks did in the 3rd Q last night, but can't pull out a win because of a lack of talent, or cohesiveness on the offensive end...the ironic thing is tho, if you play D like that for 4 quarters....you're gonna win more games than you lose. But that kind of defensive intensity and focus is a rarity for the Knicks and the 4th Q defensive efforts are far more common.

    Let's all get past wins and losses and records for a sec, and lets look at HOW we're winning and losing these games.

    Obviously some of the blame has to go to the players, but when it's an on going situation that has been there from day one, it has nothing to do with who's directing these players? The Knicks have had 30+ defensively unmotivated, and lazy players since MDA got here? And even if that was the case, he couldn't do anything to get more out of them? It's just "ehhh these guys don't wanna play D....let's score a lot of points?"

  5. #35
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    We would not have been in a position for the put back dunk to matter at all had we not been sloppy with the ball on the offensive end blowing an 11 point lead.
    That may be true. But, I think our position at that point and time had more to do with Wilcox getting 12 rebounds and Villanueva hitting four threes late in the game. If we boxed out, rebounded and played better D we wouldnt have been in that position. But we were. Like I said earlier the moment the put back dunk went through we were toast...

  6. #36
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    That may be true. But, I think our position at that point and time had more to do with Wilcox getting 12 rebounds and Villanueva hitting four threes late in the game. If we boxed out, rebounded and played better D we wouldnt have been in that position. But we were. Like I said earlier the moment the put back dunk went through we were toast...
    So we didn't lose it on the one play. Like I said, it was because we were sloppy and you even say yourself CV hit 4 threes late in the game. It wasn't the one play, the one play might have been the final nail in the coffin but with every turnover and wide open CV 3 we dug our own grave.

  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    So we didn't lose it on the one play. Like I said, it was because we were sloppy and you even say yourself CV hit 4 threes late in the game. It wasn't the one play, the one play might have been the final nail in the coffin but with every turnover and wide open CV 3 we dug our own grave.
    Yea we dung the grave but didnt have to jump in. We could've pushed the other SOB in.

    So again no matter what happened up to that point we lost the game on that put back dunk. And for the record that dunk gave them the lead, it didnt tie the game.

  8. #38
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    I get everything you're saying, but I think you're kind of mixing apples with oranges. When you ask "can you blame Mike for the horror show back then?" are you talking about the wins and loses or the fashion in which we won and lost? Because they're not quite the same thing.
    I hear what your saying, but would you rather lose while playing good defense?? A loss is a loss.. We're finding ways to lose right now- symptomatic of gelling team. 18 turnovers last nite?? You can't win when your PG suffers 8 TO's. Billups killed us in the Pistons game..

    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    The Knicks lack of defensive fundamentals (mostly having to do with team defense) was there as well. But it was just too easy to sit back and say "oh, well...we're shedding salary..." but now that the purging is complete, we have some pieces, the majority of them had training camp & preseason together...and those same defensive flaws that were present in 2008 & 2009, reared their ugly heads in 2010...and they're still here in 2011.
    Listen, you and others like DFDH, Red, Money G and Musketeer need to be more realistic. We're never going to be a great defensive team under D'antoni. Okay, we all realize that. The central point I want to make though is this: Balance wins championships in the NBA most of time -- solid defense, solid offense. Musketeer's recent wonderful thread and comprehensive, historically accurate posts pointed this out. For our team, under D'antoni, balance will look slightly different because of the unconventional way we play. If we maintain our current style and combine it w a defense that can rate within the 12th - 9th range in defensive efficiency, along w our current dominant more acclimated duo and smartly acquired defensive role players, we CAN be a team that CONTENDS in the playoffs and makes it to the Finals. I firmly believe this. This team, under this coach, has to merely be good, not great defensively to be elite and make a serious impact in the Playoffs.

    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Even if this team acquires all of the missing pieces deemed needed, gels, and continues to play this way on the defensive end next year...we will be in no better position.
    Getting Chris Paul and lengthening the rotation as often as possible would certainly help us toward my above analysis. And yes, Billups one year remaining would put us in position to be able to sign Paul in 2012 guys.

    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Something is wrong out there...there are either no set defensive strategies being installed and implemented, or there are...and the guys are ignoring MDA. Because team defense has very little to do with talent, just like Billups said and I see it in your sig, most defense is positioning, awareness, and effort...if players are not in the right spots, have their heads in the clouds, and are acting like a pregnant woman in her 8th month...who's job is it to light a fire under those dude's asses to get back to the plan installed for this game? You don't need STAT, Melo, Billups, a defensive 5, and whoever else all to be on the same team, nice and gelled, for 2 seasons to hold people accountable and get back to your game plan.
    I'll be the first to admit there needs to be MORE focus on the defensive end. I'm not willing to say there are " no set defensive strategies" as you believe. That's just not realistic IMO; not when the team is running 2-3 hr practices for the purpose of improving on the defensive end.

    And I don't buy into this idea that Mike D isn't holding the players accountable. Just because he's not the type of coach to get in players' faces, it doesn't mean he's not saying what needs to be said to them in the huddle. Every coach has to be true to themselves/ their style. Mike D'antoni is a players coach w a low tolerance for young inexperienced players and the inherent mistakes they often have on display. He just not going to yell at his best players. Did Pat Riley ever get in Kareem's, Magic's, Wade's or Ewing's faces?? Was he effective?

    I agree w the people who say he should bench players who don't play defense to an extent. However, when it's your best players that mail it in @ times, MDA can only get so far w this.. He can't afford to be benching Amare every time he has a lapse on the defensive end. At a certain point it becomes counter productive.

    IMO it's more important for a team that you have a player, preferably your best player, than can be that extension of the coach on the floor. That player should be the one to keep the other players' feet to the fire -- one they all fear. Billups can do this to an extent, but CP3 would be the equivalent of striking gold in this department. He'd have no problem getting any of our guys faces if they're not bringing it. He's the consummate leader.

    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    I can live with a team playing the way the Knicks did in the 3rd Q last night, but can't pull out a win because of a lack of talent, or cohesiveness on the offensive end...the ironic thing is tho, if you play D like that for 4 quarters....you're gonna win more games than you lose. But that kind of defensive intensity and focus is a rarity for the Knicks and the 4th Q defensive efforts are far more common.

    Let's all get past wins and losses and records for a sec, and lets look at HOW we're winning and losing these games.
    Good coaches cannot over come players that are defensively challenged. Nash, Barbosa, Duhon, Crawford, Rodriguez, Nate Robinson.. all of these guys couldn't guard their lunch. Throw Amare in the mix who is still shaky w his awareness and prone to fouling penetrators as he helps strong or weak side and this doesn't bode well for our team defensive predicament. To top it off we've always been and remain undersized. I see how we're losing these games
    and it's not all on MDA.

    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Obviously some of the blame has to go to the players, but when it's an on going situation that has been there from day one, it has nothing to do with who's directing these players? The Knicks have had 30+ defensively unmotivated, and lazy players since MDA got here? And even if that was the case, he couldn't do anything to get more out of them? It's just "ehhh these guys don't wanna play D....let's score a lot of points?"
    We currently have Billups, Melo, TD and Fields -- all of which can stay in front of there men. Let's see how they respond over these remaining games of the season and into the playoffs. I've seen some improvement.

    Again, after the playoffs, at the start of next season w a set roster and better players if Mike D doesn't have our team @a D-rating of 12th or above, I'll have some serious concerns about whether he's the right coach for this team. I think 11th, 12th at the very least should be the threshold/ goal in order to be serious playoff team, when you take under consideration the pace with which we play on offense.

  9. #39
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Fact is, if I wasn't a passionate Knick fan I wouldn't continue to post here.. Obvious enough for ya?? These useless proclamations of "i'm a bigger fan than you because I bitch louder" are simplistic and really stupid DFDH. You know this.

    I understand you're emotional. All of us on here are. But ranting like hormonal woman on a hellish cycle replete w ungodly cramps and day to day annoyingly, heavy flow is not needed.

    When you take into consideration the last two seasons, does it enter your mind that the sole goal Donnie had during that time period was shedding salary?? How can you blame Mike D for the horror show back then?

    Also, the ONLY goal we had for this season was to make the playoffs. We're in a position to so after having done most of the heavy lifting w one of the more less experienced and young rosters in the league.. I attribute this success - yes, it's success when you consider the last 10 years which i've endured painfully just like you- in part to our under-appreciated Coach. If we we're to somehow miss the playoffs, then i'll be the first to say he has to go. Otherwise, I think we all just need to sit back and watch this thing develop. Yes, be frustrated at losing, but calling for the coaches head @ every setback, when you know we just traded for two new pieces and are trying to incorporate them, is unproductive and irrational, and should be differentiated from what it means to be so-called "real" Knick fan. Call what it is... pointless, emotional bitching..

    first off the only reason I even wrote what I wrote was because I had an initial thread with points related to my distrust of the coach, they were all valid assessments of the team; this thread was a follow up, and you responded with the heart on your sleeve comment, which was completely out of line, being that I was making a point to support my earlier thread regarding firing dantoni, at no point was my initial title post to this tread emotional, or out of control in fact all i said was

    I think

    you get

    the point



    How is that being overly emotional ?

    for you to respond in the way you did, caused me to question your motivation as a knicks fan, being that something as simple as

    i think

    you

    get the

    point, would cause you to act as if im being over emotional,

    read back and see who initiated the nonsense

    ronorania

    the NEW

    METROTARD.

  10. #40
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    So if someone hits a game winning buzzer beater did they just win the game with that shot or no because there was another 48 minutes of basketball played before?

  11. #41
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smokes
    So if someone hits a game winning buzzer beater did they just win the game with that shot or no because there was another 48 minutes of basketball played before?
    Superficially they won because of the one shot, but what if a player misses (or in the alternative, makes) a free throw early in the game, or there is a bad turnover, etc.?

    Other plays in the game put you into position to have that final shot matter. The full 48 minutes matter to get you to where you are with precious little time remaining and dictate whether or not those final minutes matter. I'm not saying anything revolutionary here and I don't know how people (C&P) disagree.

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Superficially they won because of the one shot, but what if a player misses (or in the alternative, makes) a free throw early in the game, or there is a bad turnover, etc.?

    Other plays in the game put you into position to have that final shot matter. The full 48 minutes matter to get you to where you are with precious little time remaining and dictate whether or not those final minutes matter. I'm not saying anything revolutionary here and I don't know how people (C&P) disagree.
    I know and I'm not arguing it exactly I'm just curious how people see it. There are (IMO) clearly defining moments in games and to say the game was decided on a certain play isn't totally inaccurate I think.

    At the end of the day no win or loss is decided by one factor, even when a team doesn't make their freethrows/turns the ball over a lot/gets heavily outrebounded etc etc there are still hundreds of other possessions in the game that could have gone either way.

    But still, a game winner is called a game winner for a reason

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    I know and I'm not arguing it exactly I'm just curious how people see it. There are (IMO) clearly defining moments in games and to say the game was decided on a certain play isn't totally inaccurate I think.

    At the end of the day no win or loss is decided by one factor, even when a team doesn't make their freethrows/turns the ball over a lot/gets heavily outrebounded etc etc there are still hundreds of other possessions in the game that could have gone either way.

    But still, a game winner is called a game winner for a reason
    Exactly. I remember the hated NY Giants (I'm a Boys fan) Had a game won against the Egals. All they had do do was sit on the ball. They didnt. Tried to hand it off, fumbled and now we have whats called the Miracle in the Meadowlands. One play won the game for the E-Gals. No matter what happened before that play the game was lost to the Giants right there.

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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    Exactly. I remember the hated NY Giants (I'm a Boys fan) Had a game won against the Egals. All they had do do was sit on the ball. They didnt. Tried to hand it off, fumbled and now we have whats called the Miracle in the Meadowlands. One play won the game for the E-Gals. No matter what happened before that play the game was lost to the Giants right there.
    Still that's not true though. I guarantee there were plays earlier in the game that left the game within a touchdown...someone settled for a FG instead of a TD, things like that. Games are never ever won on one single play.

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Also it may perhaps be because the other main sport I follow is football where the entire game can literally be decided in one moment as a game can finish 1-0.

    Intuitively you would think this is less apparent in basketball because there are so many more "scores" in the game. However I think realistically, NBA teams are close enough that most teams when playing well against each other will result in quite a close game, thus the importance of certain plays is greatly magnified.

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