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Thread: Not really sure why long time Knick fans coule ever be against the trade of Carmelo?

  1. #16
    Veteran la2ny's Avatar
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    They are against it NOW because results aren't showing NOW. Same thing w/ Miami. Everyone wanted them to fail EPICALLY so when they started 9-8 people loved it and the hating was mercifully bliss and the media were like vamps. Then they figured something out and everyone stfu about what they did. Now we are having that issue Miami had and everyone that was scared MArbury would reincarate in Melo is enjoying life now because they feel what they were saying before the trade is justified now. The media is turning into vamps again because everytime the Knicks play what does it say at the bottom of the screen, Knicks 5-3 after Carmelo trade, 7-7 after Carmelo trade. All that said, what does everyone say when mentioning the Knicks, you don't want to play them in the playoffs. Everyone knows if they figure atleast an inkling out of something they can use to be succesfull in 3 weeks we will strike fear into any top team because we are NOT a 6-7 seed with our talent. If we had this team coming into the year we'd be the 2, 3 or 4 seed.

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    Well said la2ny; great post man. You really hit the nail on the head with that one.

    If we had a full offseason of practice(s) & preseason game(s) with this team... We'd rank ahead of ORL as the 4 seed for sure. It wasn't long ago when we only trailed ORL by 4.5-5 games.

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    Default ???

    Does anyone else in here see that Amare and Melo do way to many of the same things? They both are in love with the mid range jumper and driving to the rim. On d.... well enough said.I don't hate the trade tho because we were going to lose Chandler to FA anyway, AR was never going to play, Melo is flat out better than Gallo (who I miss anyway) The only player I miss being gone right now in Mozzy! We suck inside and have no bigs! Oh and I'll go on the record (with others) on saying if we want to win it all anytime soon we should be looking into prying D.Howard away from Orlando next season and forget about CP3 or D.Will.... Can't coach size.

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    Veteran knicksin60's Avatar
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    The only reason why I was against the Carmelo trade was because Al Harrington wasn't included in the package.

    I don't think anyone has brought the defensive intensity for the Knicks in the last 10 years the way that Harrington brought it for them in the 2 years that he was here.

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    The Knicks was suppose to make a trade with Portland on the deadline for
    anyone of their shooting-guards (Roy, or Rudy, or Mathews) to put in the
    starting lineup with Amare/Chandler/and Felton. u build a wining postseason
    team by covering all 5 positions. The Knicks had the SF-position covered
    better than any other position on the roster with
    Chandler/Gallo/S.Williams/Fields/Walker......what the hell we needed SF-
    Carmelo for other than to raise the prices of tickets in MSG.
    The trade was a Suckers-move and its not the first time the Knicks
    made a Suckers-Move.

    Patrick Ewing needed a scoring SF (X-Man & Spree) in his lineup to be
    a FINALS contender, not any star-player at any position. Example:
    Headcoach Pat Riley quit on us b/c Knick management was a fool and
    showed it by hiring bum coach Don Nelson, and then got played like a
    sucker when they traded a devastating role-player Anthony Mason for
    super-star Larry Johnson. Sucker-Move!
    Another Sucker-Move management made was trading Nene & Camby
    for super-star (21-11) Mcdyess.

    Excuse me..... u dont gut a team each season for 3 seasons in a row.
    2) u dont keep a headcoach that decrease the trade-value of all your
    players each season for 3 seasons in a row. So far Amare, Melo, and Billups
    trade-value has been going down under headcoach Dantoni, while MSG
    ticket prices has been rising through the roof.
    3) u dont keep trading, trading, and trading players when the number #1
    topic on the Knicks since 2006 has been "no effort on the defensive-end
    of the court".
    4) NBA announcers/analyst/and writers has been labeling this franchise
    the "No-Defense Knicks" when we traded away Mutombo & Kurt Thomas.
    5) The hiring of a well known Celebrity coach who lost his job coaching 3
    or more Star-players b/c he was widely known in the NBA as the "No-
    Defense-Coach" only added more trees to burn in the big Fire Isiah left
    burning under the Knicks organization.
    6) The coaches of the NBA top-15 scorers gave their scoring players
    the green-light to get their season-high when playing the no-defense
    Dantoni Knicks the past 3 seasons. And that's the good part b/c u know
    the direction of the oposition offense, but when unname bench players
    are consistenly getting season highs there leaves a big question mark on
    the DEFENSE.

    Aquiring Larry Johnson was a sucker move? Okay...glad to hear it.

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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    The only reason why I was against the Carmelo trade was because Al Harrington wasn't included in the package.

    I don't think anyone has brought the defensive intensity for the Knicks in the last 10 years the way that Harrington brought it for them in the 2 years that he was here.
    He committed so many stupid fouls though, although we look weak and would need him. Still hate that contract.

  7. #22
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    Default Great One On One Players Stumblin' And Bumblin' To Another Loss

    Ray Allen said it in the post game interview, "The Knicks have great one on one players".

    The only problem is what happens when the shots don't fall? Melo missed his last seven shots, and Amare wasn't hitting either when crunch time came vs. the Celtics tonight. The chemistry is just not there.

    The Celtics hit the Knicks for a 19 point swing to take the game, 96-86. With the Knicks up by 9 points in the final quarter, they "got stagnant" according to Amare, "got careless" according to Coach D'Antoni, and "stumblin' and bumblin", according to Knick Announcer Walt "Clyde" Frazier in those last minutes, looking completely lost and disorganized.

    The first half was a thing of beauty, as the Knicks dominated their opponents, but the Celts flipped the switch on with about 6 minutes to go, and ran roughshod over the home team. The Knicks fell apart at the end of the game, and have now lost 6 of their last 7 games,...slip slidin' away with only 12 games left.

    The motion offense of D'Antoni is rarely seen these days. I am used to saying "push it" to my TV as I watch the Knicks rebound, and I keep getting reminded that the Knicks don't push it up floor anymore. According to D'Antoni, the offensive plan is to move the ball around for 18 seconds and leave it up to one of the stars to shoot. Well, this plan hasn't been working very well. D'Antoni appears to have changed his whole offense to suit Carmelo, and there seems to be a disconnect there. Seems like some of the players on the team want to run, and some don't. It does feels that way, doesn't it? the chemistry is off. Seems to me that the problem is all mental...

    I wrote about two weeks ago that the Knicks were in danger of missing the playoffs. Now it becomes a reality. The Knicks stand at .500 now, in 7th place and sinking. The only thing they can do is keep. Keep working hard, keep a positive attitude and keep communicating with each other.

    Several readers have complained that I am too hard on Anthony. I am hard on him because he is great, and I want to see him stop taking plays off and play up to his capabilities... to hustle, like he did when he collided with Ray Allen at the end of the game and bloodied his left eye. To bust his balls like when he tried to block a shot in the final moments on a Celtic fast break. He came up short on that play, literally, but he hustled tonight, and I give him credit. If you get this hustle out of him every night, it will make a difference, and that's what I've been writing about from the start.

    Notice how the Knicks can put together a marvelous half where they give up 37 points against a great team, and then give up 59 points in the second half. Inconsistency is the hallmark of a young team, but you'd expect more out of a team led by the great veteran point guard Chauncey Billups. He hasn't been the same since the injury against the Magic, physically and mentally, and I have a feeling that he isn't anywhere close to 100%.

    I keep saying this but he has to get it together more than anyone else... take charge and become the leader that he is, or the Knicks will stumble and bumble right out of the playoff picture.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  8. #23
    Veteran la2ny's Avatar
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    This is my last time stating this because some guys here are delusional.

    Chauncey Billups stated in the interview with all 3 of them it will take a month to 2 months to reach a level where your feeling pretty cconfident out there w/ each other.

    Rick Fox said they have a nice team, but have things they need to do to become that great team everyone wants. They are improving on D but still aren't there. BUT THEY ARE BECOMING A BETTER TEAM.

    Kevin McHale said, in his NY voice, "New Yark is bacc were winnin dis ye-ah" then he said "No your not winnin "dis ye-ah". He said this team isn't complete and they have a great core to build around and will make the playoffs and gain playoff experience. Thats all you can ask for after what we have been through. After this year he said we can go to the next level from where we are if we make the right player moves(bigs, depth, experience). He also said THIS IS TRAINING CAMP! The battles we are having w/ teams and also ourselves is our preseason.

    So to everyone that wants to be a Heat fan continue to be that "sky is falling" fan. I'll rather listen to the players that have played on great teams before and the players that are on the team.

    Every team has adversity, it's how you deal with it that decides whether you become a better team or quit. If some of you guys were on the team you'd be getting Renaldo Balkman minutes. If some of you were a GM like you play you are on NBA 2k then Carmelo and Chauncey would've played 3 games here and been shipped to Golden State for Monta Ellis and David Lee....
    Last edited by la2ny; Mar 21, 2011 at 23:10.

  9. #24
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    IMO the true definition of the word delusional: Believing our Knicks can win a chip without a true 5.

    And the worst part is I truly don't believe that MDA would know what to do with one. Hell I don't even know if he would even play him for that matter.

    Let's hope MDA is gone so we don't have to find out. The bottom line is though, I truly believe with our current core of players, along with a 5 and a few good role players we will be a championship team.
    Last edited by SoCal KnicksFan; Mar 22, 2011 at 13:16.

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    The only reason why I was against the Carmelo trade was because Al Harrington wasn't included in the package.

    I don't think anyone has brought the defensive intensity for the Knicks in the last 10 years the way that Harrington brought it for them in the 2 years that he was here.
    You're joking right? Not a single GM in this league wants to touch Harrington and his toxic contract. He's one of the worst value players in the league that could never understand the concept of team ball.

    Oh and Kiyaman, hindsight is always 20/20. If Mcdyess hadn't busted his leg, we'd be looking at a very very different Knicks past.

    In the end, the reason Dolan fought so hard and went over Walsh's head for Melo? Money. Superstars bring revenue and the season ticket hike is one of the biggest extortions in NYC.

  11. #26
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    Thumbs up To many reasons

    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Hate to disagree with Kiya, but was and still am in big favor of the trade. For once we went with production over potential. The only guy I will miss is Will the Thrill, but he plays the same position as Melo and was a free agent at the end of the season anyway. As it sits we have locked up two of the best young players in the league while in the prime of thier careers. We can find role players and vets to fill in the gaps. We have had more nationally televised games since the trade than in the last five years combined. We are relevent and back in the conversation again and hopefully back in the playoffs with a chance to make hay. I know the ****lovers are hurt, but this is a team sport. You can always go be Nuggets fans.....

    There are so many reasons why we shouldve backed off of the Melo-Fiasco:

    1) We did not hire an offense/defense headcoach to include a 32+ minute
    high scoring Melo on the roster. Its chaos with Dantoni "trying" to teach
    two top veteran high-scorers offense.
    Amare & Melo have so many years of experience being a high-scorer in the
    NBA, which proves the two high-scorers do not need an offensive-coach
    Dantoni to stay one dimensional offensive players. The Two star scorers
    need a defensive-minded headcoach (JVG/Thib) to improve their performance
    on the defensive-end to perform at the next level to become consistent
    contenders in the NBA. adding two defensive pass-first PG in their rotation
    would be LUV.

    2) Headcoach Gentry already proved Dantoni was the wrong coach for
    Amare, for us to add Melo into the equation (a smaller Amare at the SF)
    only makes it two powerful reasons why Dantoni is the wrong headcoach.

    3) We needed to watch two months of our old roster under a new headcoach
    with an offense/defense system b/c our 2010-11 roster had strong defensive
    depth in PG-Douglas/SG-Fields/SF-Chandler/PF-Turiaf/F-AR/and C-Mozgov.
    After one season under Dantoni's offense, and next season under a defensive
    headcoach all 6 of those young players potential, creative-talent, and trade-
    value will increase by 3 to 5 times better than what it is today.

    4) I wanted an (UFA) Melo in the offseason taking less money to show a
    committment to become a contender alongside of Amare in New York, this
    way we could resign Chandler as backup to both Star players (or injuries).

    5) I also wanted to see if the NBA (Stern) was going to let another big-
    marketing-franchise (UFA) player walk to the team of his choice without
    the team giving anything in return to the Denver Nuggets. The Denver
    Nuggets would lose half of its average gross and profit if their franchise
    (marketing) player Carmelo walk as a FA to the team of his choice.....
    it already affected Phoenix, Utah, Toronto, and Cleveland bigtime.

    P.S. Did Donnie Walsh and Dolan wide circle of media have anything to do
    with so many top franchise-players walking to the team of their choice as
    an UFA in the 2010 offseason? recall the "2010-plan" in 2008, plus Amare
    was the first to make a committment and sign.
    Top marketing franchise players walking to the next team as a FA has never
    happen before in the history of the NBA...

  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by iJoe
    You're joking right? Not a single GM in this league wants to touch Harrington and his toxic contract. He's one of the worst value players in the league that could never understand the concept of team ball.

    Oh and Kiyaman, hindsight is always 20/20. If Mcdyess hadn't busted his leg, we'd be looking at a very very different Knicks past.

    In the end, the reason Dolan fought so hard and went over Walsh's head for Melo? Money. Superstars bring revenue and the season ticket hike is one of the biggest extortions in NYC.
    The Nets were stupid not to sign Harrington

    u are absolutely right about Dolan seeing big $$$$ marketing value in the
    tandem (Billboard) of "Melo & Amare" in MSG, and other forums.
    Its only a $$$ money making bussiness to owner Dolan.
    Dolan cleaned up bigtime marketing "Starbury" the first two years....
    everybody and their Mama was packed to full-house in MSG wearing
    a Marbury #3 jersey the first two years.

    The Knicks needed both Nene & Camby more than they needed Mcdyess
    to go alongside of PF-Kurt Thomas, 4th qtr. energy SF-Spree, lights-out
    SG-Houston, and little tough pass-first PG-Ward. Dont forget the close
    friendship of Camby & Spree who could turn-up the volume in the game
    at anytime.

  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by OriginalKnickGrandson
    Does anyone else in here see that Amare and Melo do way to many of the same things? They both are in love with the mid range jumper and driving to the rim. On d.... well enough said.I don't hate the trade tho because we were going to lose Chandler to FA anyway, AR was never going to play, Melo is flat out better than Gallo (who I miss anyway) The only player I miss being gone right now in Mozzy! We suck inside and have no bigs! Oh and I'll go on the record (with others) on saying if we want to win it all anytime soon we should be looking into prying D.Howard away from Orlando next season and forget about CP3 or D.Will.... Can't coach size.
    STAT and Melo do alot of the same things but they dont get in each other's way. Miami's main problem is that they dont shoot well. Wade kicking out to Lebron for a shot is not a good look. STAT and Melo in that situation is a bucket.

  14. #29
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Reading post's of fans being upset over the trade after only 14 games & even using Denver as a stepping stone to bash NY has been hard to understand.

    It's hard to compete for greatness without an elite star; I'm still thankful we landed one during the offseason in Amare.

    Landing Melo was a dream come true for most Knick fans. Landing Melo was for the future of our proud franchise. The best of the Knicks with Melo has yet to come.

    If I would have known heading into the offseason, that NY had no chance of landing LeBron, & someone would have then told me that NY would feature two elite stars in Amare & Carmelo this year? I wouldn't have believed them.

    If Ewing had an elite top 10 star to match MJ & Pippen during the 90's? Who knows how many rings NY fans would have enjoyed?

    We're now out of that era of Thomas cap hell, we turned our entire roster over, NY landed two megastars in Melo & Amare & we're finially in the playoff picture.

    2010-2011 has already been a special season; one that I'll never forget.
    I dont know how fans dont have an issue with the fact that there was only so long left of this season before we made the trade for melo.

    it was only a couple of months before seasons end and we could of had the guy as a free agent at his expense but not the franchises.

    everyone sais that if a star's available you have to go for them. dude hasnt played like a star.

    team hasnt reaped the benefit of the trade after almost 20 games.

    no flexibility left for next season unless we get rid of billups. i dont know how any long time knick fan can be happy with giving him away. even if he has been in a slump since his injury

    cba on the way

    when we coulda just waited 5 months and kept the same playoff spot but had guys like felton, gallo, mozgov etc as trade bait to round out as near a perfect team as possible.

    not a carmelo hater (yet) but i agree with people that say we gave up too much and think its dumb that dolan goes over donnie and mikes heads to get the star and then raises garden tickets by 49%

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    There are so many reasons why we shouldve backed off of the Melo-Fiasco:

    1) We did not hire an offense/defense headcoach to include a 32+ minute
    high scoring Melo on the roster. Its chaos with Dantoni "trying" to teach
    two top veteran high-scorers offense.
    Amare & Melo have so many years of experience being a high-scorer in the
    NBA, which proves the two high-scorers do not need an offensive-coach
    Dantoni to stay one dimensional offensive players. The Two star scorers
    need a defensive-minded headcoach (JVG/Thib) to improve their performance
    on the defensive-end to perform at the next level to become consistent
    contenders in the NBA. adding two defensive pass-first PG in their rotation
    would be LUV.

    2) Headcoach Gentry already proved Dantoni was the wrong coach for
    Amare, for us to add Melo into the equation (a smaller Amare at the SF)
    only makes it two powerful reasons why Dantoni is the wrong headcoach.

    3) We needed to watch two months of our old roster under a new headcoach
    with an offense/defense system b/c our 2010-11 roster had strong defensive
    depth in PG-Douglas/SG-Fields/SF-Chandler/PF-Turiaf/F-AR/and C-Mozgov.
    After one season under Dantoni's offense, and next season under a defensive
    headcoach all 6 of those young players potential, creative-talent, and trade-
    value will increase by 3 to 5 times better than what it is today.

    4) I wanted an (UFA) Melo in the offseason taking less money to show a
    committment to become a contender alongside of Amare in New York, this
    way we could resign Chandler as backup to both Star players (or injuries).

    5) I also wanted to see if the NBA (Stern) was going to let another big-
    marketing-franchise (UFA) player walk to the team of his choice without
    the team giving anything in return to the Denver Nuggets. The Denver
    Nuggets would lose half of its average gross and profit if their franchise
    (marketing) player Carmelo walk as a FA to the team of his choice.....
    it already affected Phoenix, Utah, Toronto, and Cleveland bigtime.

    P.S. Did Donnie Walsh and Dolan wide circle of media have anything to do
    with so many top franchise-players walking to the team of their choice as
    an UFA in the 2010 offseason? recall the "2010-plan" in 2008, plus Amare
    was the first to make a committment and sign.
    Top marketing franchise players walking to the next team as a FA has never
    happen before in the history of the NBA...
    So if I get your problem is D'antoni trying to coach Melo and STAT. I get that. Do the Knicks need to get better on defense??? Sure. But when you have a chance to get an elite player in his prime, you do it. We can always add a better coach or better role players down the road. Like I said before you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette. Watch out for this team in the playoffs....

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