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Thread: Time to trade Melo!!!!!

  1. #16
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    Excellent post in this thread la2ny! Finially some Knick fans with insight about the game of basketball. Fans who understand it takes much longer than just "15 games" to play as a team after a mid-season trade.

    It's a work in progress but the best has yet to come.

    -Fields is only a rookie. Steal of the draft. Becoming a solid peremeter defender & has shown flashes of greatness moving off the ball as a grinder. Championship style of play. Wait till next year. He'll become 10x the player he is today due to the much needed experience of his rookie season + playoff experience.

    -Douglas is only a 2nd year player who's coming into his own. He'll be ready for take off as a 3rd year pro next year.

    -We have 3 starters who's only been here for 15 or fewer games in Billups, Carmelo & JJ. That makes for 60% of our starting lineup that never had a chance to gel during training camp, practice(s) & preseason game(s). And ''fans'' wanna scream for "chemistry"?

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    Veteran petescud's Avatar
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    wow, you guys know I talk some serious BS here....But this is ridiculous after only 15 games

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    Like I've stated in the past & cant stress enough; We are not a "team". We're a team thats only trying to learn how to become a better team. It's really as simple as that.

    You have to learn to lose as a team; before you know & understand what it takes to win. Sometimes you never know what you have in a great boxer until he goes down for the 1st time. (Tyson) or does he get back up & fight with heart like Rocky?

    I've been a die hard fan since 92 & know enough about the game of basketball to know THIS team can compete during the playoffs but unless we strike lightning in a bottle; we aren't contending for a chip until we have a full offseason of roster moves to turn a playoff team into a serious Eastern Conf contender. We also need to upgrade our C' position over both JJ & Turiaf (both natural PF's).

    If NY lets Billups walk & signs either Jordan, Nene or Dalembert + a Camby &/or Battier... the sky is the limit for 2011-2012

    Some fans just have no clue how to support an up & coming team. "Fire the coach".

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    This situation of losing for 10 years along with all this fire MDA & kill kill kill mentality from NY fans really does remind me of the Rays fan base which is pathetic.

    I lived through this exact situation with TB recently. I'm thanful I know enough about sports, to know what happens when you ACTUALLY give a coach a chance to have success. Something these people know nothing about; how to support a coach with an up & coming inexperienced team before it's time for take off as contenders.

    Seriously: "Less than 20 games"? Really?

    B4 we made it to the WS in 08 during our 1st playoff run in franchise history (10 years)... Devil Ray fans were saying Maddon would never win because he had 2-3 losing seasons with HORRIBLE teams (just like MDA). Said he couldn't work the lineup or bullpen. Bring back "sweet Lou", what has Joe ever done? Etc etc.

    Then Maddon & TB put it all together & those Joe haters still hide under rocks.

    "MadDumb" vs "O'Antoni"; same types of fans. Same types of hatred nick-names. Sad.

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    Veteran la2ny's Avatar
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    I don't like Mike, but even I know this is "Yankees Mentality".
    Buy the names to shut the fans up, doesn't work people start calling for heads before a month has gone by, excessive love-hate team relationship.

    How about we make a "Can't wait for the playoffs thread"? Me personally im getting giddy. It's weird because it's so close and the season went so fast! 2 1/2 weeks and its here baby!! April Madness!!!

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    Go ahead & make the CANT WAIT (in a Bart Scott voice) playoff thread.

    I don't care how we've been playing, because that cant stop me from dreaming about the Knicks heading into the playoffs led by two of the NBA's top 10 stars in Amare Stoudemire & Carmelo Anthony.

    KG & Pierce / Bosh & LeBron etc, etc... We have a PF-SF duo that can compete with any SF-PF duo around. Bring it.

    Really cant wait for Billups come playoff time. He's the main reason why I feel we'll have a chance to compete against any Eastern Conf team. Great leader @ the PG position, exactly the type of floor general that a team needs come playoff time, 30+ games of playoff experience + a Finals MVP award under his belt etc etc I can go on & on about a healthy Billups. Strong from 3 & comes up big during the clutch during pressure situations. Deadly.

    It's gonna be exciting watching our two home grown talents in Douglas & Fields come playoff time. Cant wait to see these kids D-Up & move without the ball with New York written on their jersey.

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    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
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    This is the most ridiculous thing I've read all week....

    Melo played his heart out last night man!!

    If anyone is to blame for this loss it's Shawne Williams wo was absolutely useless on both ends of the floor.

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    Don't feed the Trolls!

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    Originally Posted by New New York
    Am I overeacting to tonight's loss....maybe.....but the fact remains what Melo brings to the table is not what these Knicks need!

    But about tonight's game, how many times did you hear Mike Breen and Walt talk about the offense becoming stagnent and of those times how many times was those on possessions where Melo was in the game?

    How many times did you hear Mike and Walt state "that is not a good shot at all from Carmelo"

    The dude clogs up the offense.

    Carmelo is not a leader!!!!! He needs to be on a team with an established core of players and veteren leadership because he is not going to bring that himself.

    For a "superstar player" he makes a lot of dumb plays on both ends on the floor


    Potential trades for Melo

    Lakers give up Bynum and Odom for Melo

    Portland give up Camby and Wallace

    Clippers give up Kaman and Eric Gordon


    and yes cap nerds I do realize this deals dont all matchup salary wise and woudl need more players thrown in.

    But all of these deals round out our roster better than having Melo.

    Billups
    Feilds
    Odom
    Stat
    Bynum


    Billups
    Feilds
    Gerald Wallace
    Stat
    Camby


    Billups
    Gordon
    Feilds
    Stat
    Kaman


    all of those starting 5's are significantly better than what we have now and allow for Stat to become the leader with a good cast of players around him.



    trade this dude this off season before he no longer has trade value!!!!

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    Default Moving on with Melo

    We have two super star offensive players and a very smart but aging point guard in Billups. Fields is solid, Douglas is erratic and not particularly good at distributing the ball. Shawne Williams has his moments. Besides our stars, we have very little else.

    Billups has lost a couple of steps and has difficulty keeping up with quicker point guards. He is hardly perfect in D'Antoni's run and gun system.

    Melo has focussed his immense skills on scoring. He does not play much defense, particularly much team defense and with Denver, at least, he did not really play "team" ball. But given his athletic skills he certainly has the capacity to do so. He is trying to adjust.

    Whether we like D'Antoni's system or not, our current team is not built for that system. We have a lot of adjusting to do without a lot of talented parts with which to do it. I cringe whenever I see Jefferies and Turiaf on the floor together. How can there be effective ball movement when two out of five of the players hardly need guarding? Derrick Brown has got to be better than Jefferies.

    Melo is right. Do not count on too much this year. I was not a fan of the trade, but what is done is done. Melo is a proud man. There is no way that he wants to fail in New York. He and Amare' will adjust their games with appropriate coaching and a couple of more pieces. It is not going to be easy to get the pieces given our lack of flexibility in cap space and assets. I am not particularly confident that D"Antoni can create a system that will work with what we have and will likely have in the next few years. We need some good fortune in the draft. If we do not drop Bilups we do not have a chance at improving the center spot unless Jerome Jordan comes back from Europe a changed player. Even if we drop Billups and assume a cap equivalent to this year's $58M, we will have less than $10M in cap space.

    i think in the trade we actually stepped back for this year. But we could be much better next year.

  11. #26
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    Originally Posted by Oldtimer
    We have two super star offensive players and a very smart but aging point guard in Billups. Fields is solid, Douglas is erratic and not particularly good at distributing the ball. Shawne Williams has his moments. Besides our stars, we have very little else.

    Billups has lost a couple of steps and has difficulty keeping up with quicker point guards. He is hardly perfect in D'Antoni's run and gun system.

    Melo has focussed his immense skills on scoring. He does not play much defense, particularly much team defense and with Denver, at least, he did not really play "team" ball. But given his athletic skills he certainly has the capacity to do so. He is trying to adjust.

    Whether we like D'Antoni's system or not, our current team is not built for that system. We have a lot of adjusting to do without a lot of talented parts with which to do it. I cringe whenever I see Jefferies and Turiaf on the floor together. How can there be effective ball movement when two out of five of the players hardly need guarding? Derrick Brown has got to be better than Jefferies.

    Melo is right. Do not count on too much this year. I was not a fan of the trade, but what is done is done. Melo is a proud man. There is no way that he wants to fail in New York. He and Amare' will adjust their games with appropriate coaching and a couple of more pieces. It is not going to be easy to get the pieces given our lack of flexibility in cap space and assets. I am not particularly confident that D"Antoni can create a system that will work with what we have and will likely have in the next few years. We need some good fortune in the draft. If we do not drop Bilups we do not have a chance at improving the center spot unless Jerome Jordan comes back from Europe a changed player. Even if we drop Billups and assume a cap equivalent to this year's $58M, we will have less than $10M in cap space.

    i think in the trade we actually stepped back for this year. But we could be much better next year.
    Level headed and objective. I agree with just about everything written.

  12. #27
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    LOL, far from a troll, no offense taken by any of the insults hurled at me!!!

    I completley understand the feeling that many of you have with me possibly jumping the gun on this and that I may be grossly over reacting.

    But here me out.

    This is not based soley on the performance of the team since we got Melo (although it does speak to what my concerns are)

    The fact remains is that Carmelo was not what The Knicks needed!!!!

    Now I am not one of these people who thinks we gave up too much for Melo, I just don't think we shouldve traded for him at all.

    Think about it....We are still getting hammered on the glass, this team can play together for 40 more games this season and that is not going to improve! Which is why every trade I suggested had us getting someone to bang on the boards.

    Point 2:We are also a terrible club at defending the paint (amongst other areas of the floor) this was true before the Melo trade and is true now!!! and one can argue that Wilson Chandler and Gallo did help out somewhat in this regard thus a regression after getting Melo.

    Point 3: The Knicks play their worst on offense when we stand around....well Carmelo holds the ball for about 7 seconds when he gets it, thus we standing around watching him with the ball.


    I know its just easy to say "give it time" but all the time in the world will not solve these issues.

    Trade Melo and balance out the roster is all I am saying

    Because the longer he plays in NY, the more his weakness will continue to get exposed.

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    Think about this for a second.

    Would any team (apart from the Celtics) rather have their starting PG, SF and PF over ours?

    People need to sack up and accept what we have. We have a quality player in Melo any other team would LOVE to have. He is a rare talent and people need to understand it takes time to develop chemistry.

  14. #29
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    "Fire the coach".
    I agree with this!

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    We are not a "team". We're a team
    Oh.
    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Sometimes you never know what you have in a great boxer until he goes down for the 1st time. (Tyson) or does he get back up & fight with heart like Rocky?
    Rocky? Well, if we are using fictional stories then I will tell you all about this episode of Hey Arnold. Arnold, Gerald, and friends once took on the 5th graders in a game of football who have been playing together for years. Whoever won the game won rights to the football field in the middle of the city. Arnold and his friends won the game even though it was their first time running the plays and playing on the same team ever. They didn't need time to gel like you are giving the Knicks time to gel.
    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Some fans just have no clue how to support an up & coming team. "Fire the coach".
    Thanks for being a perfect example.

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