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Thread: Bad loss....but huge steps have been taken forward

  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Phil Jackson had Tex Winter. He died a bit ago dude.

    Just to weigh in re: this assistant coach issue.. I'd also love for MDA to bring on a defensive strategist, but I just don't see it happening due to the fact Dan D' antoni is the current d- coach (if this is not accurate please someone correct me). I think to MDA to replace his brother w someone else would be like selling him out. He just not going to do that.

    I think the idea should be to find someone who's willing to come in and colaborate with MDA's older brother. Replacing him is simply off the table in IMO.
    Is there a limit to asst. coaches. Dantoni is coaching fo his life, if nepotism is holding him back, the ged rid of them all.

  2. #62
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    Is there a limit to asst. coaches. Dantoni is coaching fo his life, if nepotism is holding him back, the ged rid of them all.
    That would appear to the next logical move if MDA won't budge on the assistant coach front. We're not @ that stage yet though IMO. We need to see MDA w more of a finished product personnel-wise first.

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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    This team is not built right now to play tough defense. From the top down. We have 2 or 3 above average defenders (JJ, Fields, Turiaf). The rest of the team is FAR more offensively skilled then they are defensively.
    I disagree. The team plays the way the coach wants them to play. If MDA was a defensive minded coach all his teams would represent that. When he got to the Knicks two years ago if MDA stressed defense his team would be better defensively right now. He doesnt and it isnt.

    This is why I dont understand guys saying we needed someone down low. We've had plenty of players that could fill that role defensively. MDA chooses not to use them. He prefers offense. Outside of Dwight Howard I dont see anyone that fits his system. Dwight doesnt fit but he'd be forced to play him, same way he was forced to play Shaq.

    We need a new coach...

  4. #64
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    I disagree. The team plays the way the coach wants them to play. If MDA was a defensive minded coach all his teams would represent that. When he got to the Knicks two years ago if MDA stressed defense his team would be better defensively right now. He doesnt and it isnt.

    This is why I dont understand guys saying we needed someone down low. We've had plenty of players that could fill that role defensively. MDA chooses not to use them. He prefers offense. Outside of Dwight Howard I dont see anyone that fits his system. Dwight doesnt fit but he'd be forced to play him, same way he was forced to play Shaq.

    We need a new coach...
    I think some here are confusing individual defense with team defense which is why I see comments about the team not having good defenders. You & others know team defense hides single players defensive flaws. If we had a consistent defensive strategy & focused on D as a team, we'd be a better. We'd be more cohesive & that would create more easy bucket opportunities enabling our offense to get going.

  5. #65
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    ^defense is defense man. Yes, there is a difference between 1 on 1 defense and "team" defense, but if you have a team made up of bad 1v1 defenders, they are not going to be a good defensive team, i don't care if you got bob knight or whatever other names you want to throw out there.

    Would they would be better defensively then MDA? probably
    would they be worse offensively? probably
    Would we win more games? i don't think so.
    would we win a championship with the roster we currently have? probably not.

    so what is the point? MDA can get us to top 4 in the east, probably even top 4 in the league, he's done it before with less talent. I don't know if he'll take us to a chip, but top 4 in the league isn't a bad start. i think we're a 4th seed next year, with room to go to the ECF's and maybe even the Finals. If he can't get it done between this year and next then yeah, i guess we'll have to blow up the team again and do something else.

  6. #66
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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    ^defense is defense man. Yes, there is a difference between 1 on 1 defense and "team" defense, but if you have a team made up of bad 1v1 defenders, they are not going to be a good defensive team, i don't care if you got bob knight or whatever other names you want to throw out there.

    Would they would be better defensively then MDA? probably
    would they be worse offensively? probably
    Would we win more games? i don't think so.
    would we win a championship with the roster we currently have? probably not.

    so what is the point? MDA can get us to top 4 in the east, probably even top 4 in the league, he's done it before with less talent. I don't know if he'll take us to a chip, but top 4 in the league isn't a bad start. i think we're a 4th seed next year, with room to go to the ECF's and maybe even the Finals. If he can't get it done between this year and next then yeah, i guess we'll have to blow up the team again and do something else.
    Paul Pierce was not a good defender pre-KG. Thibideou came in with his strategy and accountability and Pierece is a solid defender. Ray Allen is not known as a stopper niether. But they bought in to the defensive system.

    There is a vid on Boston's defense is Thibs defense. Its a very dirty but great defense in never clean:

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    That is team defense. Look at Pierce playing defense. This is not MDA coaching. A defensive guru will help ours.

    A dedication to team defense will help and an individual player understand his own defense and take pride in his as well.

    This is simple human psychology: If the see that dedication to defense brings great results the team will buy into it. But you need a coach to ride them so hard that its annoying.

    The Bulls get annoyed with Thibideau everyday because he rides his players with relentless intensity. MDA does not do that. Defensive head or asst. coach will do that for us must be that kind of coach.

  7. #67
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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    Paul Pierce was not a good defender pre-KG. Thibideou came in with his strategy and accountability and Pierece is a solid defender. Ray Allen is not known as a stopper niether. But they bought in to the defensive system.

    There is a vid on Boston's defense is Thibs defense. Its a very dirty but great defense in never clean:

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    That is team defense. Look at Pierce playing defense. This is not MDA coaching. A defensive guru will help ours.

    A dedication to team defense will help and an individual player understand his own defense and take pride in his as well.

    This is simple human psychology: If the see that dedication to defense brings great results the team will buy into it. But you need a coach to ride them so hard that its annoying.

    The Bulls get annoyed with Thibideau everyday because he rides his players with relentless intensity. MDA does not do that. Defensive head or asst. coach will do that for us must be that kind of coach.
    You beat me to that!!! I use the same person as an example. Even my favorite Knick Allan Houston was an average defender. But in JVG's defensive scheme, he was able to play good team defense.

    And to P0nder, you can have a team of avg-bad one-one defenders, but if you have a coach that stresses communication on the floor & having defensive sets in certain situations that'll help huge. Playing D is about effort & communication. If the coach isn't stressing either, you're going to have terrible defensive team. Some of the best defensive teams in the NBA are constantly communicating, calling out picks in whatever direction they're being set. Trapping players & using the out of bounds line as the 3rd man to cause a turnover. Those are the little things that a more defensive minded coach can bring to the table. Or using Latrell Sprewell as an example. He drove hard to the right alot & usually finished hard to his right. You force him left & he's more than likely going to pick up his dribble & turn the ball over. His left handed dribble wasn't nearly as strong as his right. That's the kind of thing DA would overlook because he's so focused on outscring another team.

  8. #68
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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    Paul Pierce was not a good defender pre-KG. Thibideou came in with his strategy and accountability and Pierece is a solid defender. Ray Allen is not known as a stopper niether. But they bought in to the defensive system.

    There is a vid on Boston's defense is Thibs defense. Its a very dirty but great defense in never clean:

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    That is team defense. Look at Pierce playing defense. This is not MDA coaching. A defensive guru will help ours.

    A dedication to team defense will help and an individual player understand his own defense and take pride in his as well.

    This is simple human psychology: If the see that dedication to defense brings great results the team will buy into it. But you need a coach to ride them so hard that its annoying.

    The Bulls get annoyed with Thibideau everyday because he rides his players with relentless intensity. MDA does not do that. Defensive head or asst. coach will do that for us must be that kind of coach.
    True.

    But they also brought in KG. We do not have a KG-level defender, period. A guy like KG makes defense easier for everyone on the floor.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    True.

    But they also brought in KG. We do not have a KG-level defender, period. A guy like KG makes defense easier for everyone on the floor.
    Guys are making great points about individual vs team defense and it doesn't seem like your paying much attention.

    KG doesn't matter. The rest of the team became dedicated and as a result became a sound cohesive defensive unit. When KG is hurt they still play great defense, so what's your point?

    The coach made defense an important part of their identity.

  10. #70
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Guys are making great points about individual vs team defense and it doesn't seem like your paying much attention.

    KG doesn't matter. The rest of the team became dedicated and as a result became a sound cohesive defensive unit. When KG is hurt they still play great defense, so what's your point?

    The coach made defense an important part of their identity.
    KG doesn't matter? Of course he does, he is a defensive leader who brings defensive cohesion with him. Why do you think they all became dedciated? It wasn't all the coach, it was the player (a notorious hard-ass leader) they brought in as well. More than the coach holding them accountable (Rivers, btw, could not teach defense of a high screen pre-Thibodeau), KG is the type of GUY that holds his teammates accountable, on top of being good on defense. We do not have that type of player.

  11. #71
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    True.

    But they also brought in KG. We do not have a KG-level defender, period. A guy like KG makes defense easier for everyone on the floor.
    True. And this is what the Knicks have. Our best players STAT and Melo have get it done. As silly as that sounds that is the reality. This should not wait for someone to be incharge of defense. This is on the coach. MDA must get the defensive asst coach or he must go. Honestly, I put this at Walsh's feet. Get him that guru of get him out of here.

  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    True. And this is what the Knicks have. Our best players STAT and Melo have get it done. As silly as that sounds that is the reality. This should not wait for someone to be incharge of defense. This is on the coach. MDA must get the defensive asst coach or he must go. Honestly, I put this at Walsh's feet. Get him that guru of get him out of here.
    That, or Melo or STAT (preferably both) have to dedicate themselves to defense and holding their teammates accountable (something they have not done to this point in their careers.

  13. #73
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    KG doesn't matter? Of course he does, he is a defensive leader who brings defensive cohesion with him. Why do you think they all became dedciated? It wasn't all the coach, it was the player (a notorious hard-ass leader) they brought in as well. More than the coach holding them accountable (Rivers, btw, could not teach defense of a high screen pre-Thibodeau), KG is the type of GUY that holds his teammates accountable, on top of being good on defense. We do not have that type of player.
    Turiaf gets the most excited form a good defensive play. I've seen him try to get guys together on defense but since he's just a part-time role player, the effects are less susbstantial i guess.

    We need someone with the "play hard or go cheerlead" approach.

  14. #74
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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    Paul Pierce was not a good defender pre-KG. Thibideou came in with his strategy and accountability and Pierece is a solid defender. Ray Allen is not known as a stopper niether. But they bought in to the defensive system.

    There is a vid on Boston's defense is Thibs defense. Its a very dirty but great defense in never clean:

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    That is team defense. Look at Pierce playing defense. This is not MDA coaching. A defensive guru will help ours.

    A dedication to team defense will help and an individual player understand his own defense and take pride in his as well.

    This is simple human psychology: If the see that dedication to defense brings great results the team will buy into it. But you need a coach to ride them so hard that its annoying.

    The Bulls get annoyed with Thibideau everyday because he rides his players with relentless intensity. MDA does not do that. Defensive head or asst. coach will do that for us must be that kind of coach.
    Sorry, off-topic: love how the "analyst" in the vid manages to pour man-love on Kobe, hate on Jordan, and whine about everything else simultaneously.

    He says Jordan had the luxury of playing isolation basketball against weak defenders and non-complex defenses and complains about the "rough" play employed by Posey, et. al. on KB24. I guess the names Mahorn, Rodman, Laimbeer, Starks, Mason, and Oakley don't mean sh*t to this guy.

    Anyway--yeah defense is just more difficult to teach than offense simply because the reason people take up hoops is to shoot the ball. You need someone constantly teaching it and, most importantly, someone (coach or player) not only to hold the team accountable but to make them take pride in playing hard, quality D.

    It ain't Xs and Os, it all boils down to a simple want to shut the opponent down.

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