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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo Unknown Entity

    What you don't know can kill you..

    This team is pretty much an unknown due to fact we are still gelling. Billups continues to acclimate. Melo continues to find his flow within the offense. Amare and Billups are opening up lines of ESP on the pick and roll, which continue to become stronger and more unstoppable. The bench pieces continue to be more productive as certain players emerge and prove useful, such (to my utter surprise) as Carter and Sheldon. TD continues to show what a potent scorer he is as he shares time w Billups in the backcourt off the bench. He can get even better. And coach is growing the winning framework that will carry us into the playoffs.

    The point is we're still turning into a cohesive unit. As we explore what works best for us in these last games I think we'll go into the playoffs a virtual unquantified upset capable type of team.. Feel me? I mean, I can honestly say I don't know what to expect from these guys game to game. I don't know what an acclimated Billups will look like in this offense. I don't know how it will look when he starts to more instinctively know where Melo, Amare, Fields etc are when he gets said sh#t together. How will this look? My guess is pretty awesome..

    What type of player will Melo become as he continues to be more of a passer, utilizing the spacing to find cutters from the triple threat position?

    What about his D? Will he continue to give this much effort against the lesser teams and contenders alike?

    What type of playoff player will Fields be?

    How will Billups experience and Championship mettle affect this team?

    There are more questions than answers at this point..

    We are an unknown entity.

    I think this factor bodes well for us going into the playoffs.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Apr 03, 2011 at 12:13.

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    What you don't know can kill you..

    This team is pretty much an unknown due to fact we are still gelling. Billups continues to acclimate. Melo continues to find his flow within the offense. Amare and Billups are opening up lines of ESP on the pick and roll, which continue to become stronger and more unstoppable. The bench pieces continue to be more productive as certain players emerge and prove useful, such (to my utter surprise) as Carter and Sheldon. TD continues to show what a potent scorer he is as he shares time w Billups in the backcourt off the bench. He can get even better. And coach is growing the winning framework that will carry us into the playoffs.

    The point is we're still turning into a cohesive unit. As we explore what works best for us in theses last games I think we'll go into the playoffs a virtual unquantified upset capable type of team.. Feel me? I mean, I can honestly say I don't know what to expect from these guys game to game. I don't know what an acclimated Billups will look like in this offense. I don't know how it will look when he starts to more instinctively know where Melo, Amare, Fields etc are when he gets said sh#t together. How will this look? My guess is pretty awesome..

    What type of player will Melo become as he continues to be more of a passer, utilizing the spacing to find cutters from the triple threat position?

    What about his D? Will he continue to give this much effort against the lesser teams and contenders alike?

    What type of playoff player will Fields be?

    How will Billups experience and Championship mettle affect this team?

    There are more questions than answers at this point..

    We are an unknown entity.

    I think this factor bodes well for us going into the playoffs.
    Good post, but its the KNOWN (weak defense) that has me worried...

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    Default Unknown Entity?

    What we have right now is a known entity -- one that is not quite ready for prime time. What we will have, hopefully shortly, is the unknown entity.

    With Amare' and Melo we have two great building blocks for the future. But a team that "gels" with significant minutes for the likes of Jared Jefferies, Sheldon Williams, and Anthony Carter does not impress.

    I like Billups, but his only long term use to us is the cap space he will create either this year or next year or his trade friendly/option/expiring contract. Fields is solid but his minutes and effectiveness are currently down. Douglas is erratic. He is not a distributor. In one recent game he was 6 for 17 and Amare' had only 10 shots. That should not happen. Shawne Williams is a keeper but not a game changer. Turiaf has his moments. Walker is an enigma. What else do we have?

    We have got to get a defensive big and a young fast distributing point guard to complement our two pillars.

    I wish that D'Antoni would play Derrick Brown a little bit. How can Jared Jefferies be better than he is? Why did we buy out Brewer unless we expected to do something with Brown?
    Last edited by Oldtimer; Apr 03, 2011 at 11:27. Reason: Typo

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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    Good post, but its the KNOWN (weak defense) that has me worried...
    I have to agree, as any Knicks fan with half a brain would that our D is the biggest question mark heading into the playoffs.

    Either way its going to be exciting to watch our team play in a series for the first time in 7 years, especially with a proven superstar in Melo leading the way. I honestly have no idea what to expect from this team come playoff time, but I dont know what to expect out of our potential opponent in Miami either. I could see Miami dominate or struggle against us, I just am excited for some playoff basketball and would love to see us win atleast a game or two.

    Forcing a game 7 would be the most I could realisticly expect from the Knicks this year, and once you get to a game 7 anything can happen, especially when you have a top 5-7 player on your squad.

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    Originally Posted by Oldtimer
    I wish that D'Antoni would play Derrick Brown a little bit. How can Jared Jefferies be better than he is? Why did we buy out Brewer unless we expected to do something with Brown?
    Good question. I wanna see Brown get some minutes as well, see if he can contribute in some way. Its not like we have this deep bench where it is unrealistic to expect to see him get some playing time here and there, especially in the last handleful of games before the playoffs.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oldtimer
    What we have right now is a known entity -- one that is not quite ready for prime time. What we will have, hopefully shortly, is the unknown entity.

    With Amare' and Melo we have two great building blocks for the future. But a team that "gels" with significant minutes for the likes of Jared Jefferies, Sheldon Williams, and Anthony Carter does not impress.

    I like Billups, but his only long term use to us is the cap space he will create either this year or next year or his trade friendly/option/expiring contract. Fields is solid but his minutes and effectiveness are currently down. Douglas is erratic. He is not a distributor. In one recent game he was 6 for 17 and Amare' had only 10 shots. That should not happen. Shawne Williams is a keeper but not a game changer. Turiaf has his moments. Walker is an enigma. What else do we have?

    We have got to get a defensive big and a young fast distributing point guard to complement our two pillars.

    I wish that D'Antoni would play Derrick Brown a little bit. How can Jared Jefferies be better than he is? Why did we buy out Brewer unless we expected to do something with Brown?
    I'm analysing re: the short-term only Old Timer. Just trying to gage what we will be these last few games going into the playoffs and how this limited growth (last 2 wins) and presumable continued growth will affect whomever we face. The primary point being they can't really know what to expect.

    Originally Posted by PaPZ187
    I have to agree, as any Knicks fan with half a brain would that our D is the biggest question mark heading into the playoffs.

    Either way its going to be exciting to watch our team play in a series for the first time in 7 years, especially with a proven superstar in Melo leading the way. I honestly have no idea what to expect from this team come playoff time, but I dont know what to expect out of our potential opponent in Miami either. I could see Miami dominate or struggle against us, I just am excited for some playoff basketball and would love to see us win atleast a game or two.

    Forcing a game 7 would be the most I could realisticly expect from the Knicks this year, and once you get to a game 7 anything can happen, especially when you have a top 5-7 player on your squad.
    To me, w MDA our defense is the more in the known category. More than likely we'll be average and play solid defense for stretches, or quarters. I think we all know MDA's teams hardly ever play solid, lock-down D for 48 min. This is a known.

    The unknown, to me anyway and prolly more important to this team, is how we will gel offensively as our new pieces acclimate to one another.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    This is article fits in w my post pretty nicely... Our evolution is super interesting to me as what we're becoming continues to unravel..


    Anthony Shoulders a Load Stoudemire Used to Carry
    By JONATHAN ABRAMS

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — The constant in the evolving formula that N.B.A. teams hope translates into championships — mix a superstar or two with a superstar or two — is that there remains just one basketball to shoot or share.
    Enlarge This Image

    For the Knicks, the latest team to enroll in Superstar Chemistry 101, Carmelo Anthony is relieving Amar’e Stoudemire of the bulk of the offensive responsibilities that he carried through four months of a renaissance season. In doing so, Anthony is assuming them himself.

    The transfer has been most apparent in the past few games and probably reflects a combination of factors — from Stoudemire’s fatigue to Anthony’s gaining confidence in a new system and mostly new teammates. The two are now sharing the court and the city’s large off-court spotlight as well. There are two huge billboards bearing Anthony’s likeness near Madison Square Garden, and he recently made an appearance on “Saturday Night Live.” He and Stoudemire also taped a segment for “Sesame Street” together.

    Stoudemire was the first All-Star to agree to take on the huge task of rebuilding the Knicks last summer, signing with the team as a free agent. Anthony joined him after Stoudemire provided the healthy start, forcing a trade from Denver in late February.

    When Stoudemire played for Phoenix, he shared the spotlight with Steve Nash and sometimes felt his accomplishments were not held in as high regard as those of Nash, a two-time winner of the Most Valuable Player award.

    “There’s always enough room for a few superstars,” Stoudemire said. “It’s just a matter of us continuing to win and continuing to play together as a team. That’s the most important thing. I can give a little of the spotlight and take some of the light off of me.”

    In his last three games, Anthony is averaging 38 points. The Knicks required all of them to squeeze out victories against Orlando and the Nets in the past two games and halt a tailspin. The Knicks (37-38) can clinch their first playoff berth in seven seasons Sunday if they beat Cleveland (for the first time in 12) games and if Charlotte loses to Washington.

    Anthony’s hot streak must seem familiar to Stoudemire, who set a franchise record with nine consecutive games with 30 or more points this season. In three of the past six games, however, he has 16 or fewer.

    “I think he’s kind of tired of trying to go out there and score 30 or 40 points,” Anthony said. “He’s been doing that this whole season. He’s been carrying the team on his back this whole season and having an M.V.P. year, having one of the best seasons of his career so far. So for him to have somebody else on his team and a couple of guys who can help him out, that’s perfect for him. He doesn’t have to go out there and score 30 to 35 points in order for us to win.”

    But if Stoudemire does not score that many, Anthony usually has to for the Knicks to win. Lately, Anthony has taken on more of that responsibility, especially late in games.

    Both players have adapted since becoming teammates, according to an analysis by Synergy Sports Technology. In the fourth quarter of games with the Knicks, the number of times that Anthony has gone one-on-one with a defender has accounted for 33 percent of his total plays, as opposed to 45 percent with Denver. Stoudemire is being used less in the post and in pick-and-rolls and more in isolation (which may have less to do with Anthony and more to do with the departure of point guard Raymond Felton, now with Denver). His field-goal percentage in the post has also dipped from 62.5 percent in the fourth quarter before the trade to 44.4 percent.

    Both are shooting more jumpers — 8.4 percent more for Stoudemire and 5.2 percent for Anthony, according to Synergy, which logs and tracks each N.B.A. game.

    “They added an isolation specialist in Carmelo that really neutralizes Amar’e, and when Amar’e does get touches, it turns him into an isolation player, too,” said an Eastern Conference scout who has seen the Knicks play several games since the trade. “When you have isolation players and not flow players, the defense gets set easier. When one of them makes a great one-on-one move, the defense is set and they know where you want to go, and then the help comes. You take more difficult shots with less time on the shot clock. They have to win games off sheer talent, and that’s tough.”

    The scout said that Stoudemire and his teammates were still trying to settle into a rhythm.

    “Everybody is a Monday morning quarterback in figuring out what needs to happen after it happens,” the scout said of Stoudemire and Anthony’s adapting to each other, adding, “It takes time.”




    Re: bolded

    I think the next step as this team continues to grow in familiarity is for Carmelo/ Amare to expect the help off of their respective isolations and begin to utilize our spacing to move the basketball to find open shooters.

    This will take us to a more potent level offensively.

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    I think the next step as this team continues to grow in familiarity is for Carmelo/ Amare to expect the help off of their respective isolations and begin to utilize our spacing to move the basketball to find open shooters.

    This will take us to a more potent level offensively.
    Agree 100% and the great thing is as a new team and with the ability of our players this is more than possible (might take the offseason to develop but that's ok).

    When you consider the criticisms of Amare and Melo and especially them playing tandem that the ball stops in their hands. Well is it surprising when you look at their surrounding casts in PHX/DEN respectively? If you were Melo or Stat who would you want to pass the ball to on those teams?

    Now they have each other.

    Melo has shown flashes of being a great playmaker, although he rarely gets high assist numbers it's easily possible for him to become a 5 APG guy, I don't think that's expecting too much.

    As for Stat, I was actually watching the ORL@NYK game in full for the first time last night. I found it really interesting watching Amare passing the ball in and around the post area. He keeps the ball high, his passes are accurate and fast.

    Once these guys develop that sixth sense about where each other are on the court this offense is going to be a force.

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    Fans will only get off Melo's back when he delivers a championship to the Knicks. STAT already won the hearts of Knick fans by being the first superstar to take on the challenge of coming here & restoring the Knicks to some form of relevancy. Now the expectations for Melo are to take the team to the next level & deliver a title, regardless if that's fair or not that's what he took on when he decided to force his way here, & I believe he's fully aware of this.

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    [COLOR="Blue"]esn’t have to go out there and score 30 to 35 points in order for us to win.”

    But if Stoudemire does not score that many, Anthony usually has to for the Knicks to win. Lately, Anthony has taken on more of that responsibility, especially late in games.

    Both players have adapted since becoming teammates, according to an analysis by Synergy Sports Technology. In the fourth quarter of games with the Knicks, the number of times that Anthony has gone one-on-one with a defender has accounted for 33 percent of his total plays, as opposed to 45 percent with Denver. Stoudemire is being used less in the post and in pick-and-rolls and more in isolation (which may have less to do with Anthony and more to do with the departure of point guard Raymond Felton, now with Denver). His field-goal percentage in the post has also dipped from 62.5 percent in the fourth quarter before the trade to 44.4 percent.

    Both are shooting more jumpers — 8.4 percent more for Stoudemire and 5.2 percent for Anthony, according to Synergy, which logs and tracks each N.B.A. game.

    “They added an isolation specialist in Carmelo that really neutralizes Amar’e, and when Amar’e does get touches, it turns him into an isolation player, too,” said an Eastern Conference scout who has seen the Knicks play several games since the trade. “When you have isolation players and not flow players, the defense gets set easier. When one of them makes a great one-on-one move, the defense is set and they know where you want to go, and then the help comes. You take more difficult shots with less time on the shot clock. They have to win games off sheer talent, and that’s tough.”

    The scout said that Stoudemire and his teammates were still trying to settle into a rhythm.

    “Everybody is a Monday morning quarterback in figuring out what needs to happen after it happens,” the scout said of Stoudemire and Anthony’s adapting to each other, adding, “It takes time.”




    Re: bolded

    I think the next step as this team continues to grow in familiarity is for Carmelo/ Amare to expect the help off of their respective isolations and begin to utilize our spacing to move the basketball to find open shooters.

    This will take us to a more potent level offensively.
    Those 4th quarter numbers are indicative of what makes us a known entity.

    Primarily channeling the ball on the high block and high post without a distractive motion offence is what has made us an incredibly predictable entity, and has made Fields an unknown entity. I often wonder what role Gallo would/could play on this team that has an MO of 'just get them (1&7) the ball and react', if he were still on the team.

    Rondiggity The point is we're still turning into a cohesive unit. As we explore what works best for us in these last games I think we'll go into the playoffs a virtual unquantified upset capable type of team.. Feel me? I mean, I can honestly say I don't know what to expect from these guys game to game. I don't know what an acclimated Billups will look like in this offense. I don't know how it will look when he starts to more instinctively know where Melo, Amare, Fields etc are when he gets said sh#t together. How will this look? My guess is pretty awesome..
    I feel you! That's a good point.

    But at this stage, I feel like I know precisely what to expect from our 2 stars and our team offensively, because of the monotony of our sets. Defensively, enough said.

    Offensively, we're yet to draw up any specific plays outside of a spacing set that allows either STAT or Melo some breathing room. And even then those are often poorly spaced and untimely fed, IMO. I mean, I don't believe that we have literally NO plays drawn up. I don't bash the bishop that hard that I've gone blind! Yet! We have plays set for motion, but they, again, are centred around Melo and Amar'e alone.

    All in all, I think that you're right: the team as an offensive amalgam are an unknown entity capable of achieving what we all want so badly. But the offence we're using now has become, or is yet to become something other than, predictable and unrefined after 20+ games.

    There's still too much confusion between role players and an underwhelming sense of chemistry throughout positions 1-5.

    We're underachieving offensively with two 25+PPG scorers and Chauncey Billups. I really don't want to turn this in to a D'Antoni thread, but I aim my blame toward him and his staff.

    It seems that after every game, win or lose, that going back to the drawing board has become a Broadway version of Groundhog Day.

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina


    I think the next step as this team continues to grow in familiarity is for Carmelo/ Amare to expect the help off of their respective isolations and begin to utilize our spacing to move the basketball to find open shooters.

    This will take us to a more potent level offensively.
    I forgot to add that this specifically was a part of your post that I really, strongly agree with.

    Utilising spacing has to start with effective off ball movement in transition. I don't think we're doing well enough in that regard.

    When we do become a better team in both regards, we won't lose to teams like Milwaukee, Charlotte etc. because our talent can carry us, as daunting a task as that sounds.

    Exciting stuff!

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    We are the New York ????'s


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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    What you don't know can kill you..

    This team is pretty much an unknown due to fact we are still gelling. Billups continues to acclimate. Melo continues to find his flow within the offense. Amare and Billups are opening up lines of ESP on the pick and roll, which continue to become stronger and more unstoppable. The bench pieces continue to be more productive as certain players emerge and prove useful, such (to my utter surprise) as Carter and Sheldon. TD continues to show what a potent scorer he is as he shares time w Billups in the backcourt off the bench. He can get even better. And coach is growing the winning framework that will carry us into the playoffs.

    The point is we're still turning into a cohesive unit. As we explore what works best for us in these last games I think we'll go into the playoffs a virtual unquantified upset capable type of team.. Feel me? I mean, I can honestly say I don't know what to expect from these guys game to game. I don't know what an acclimated Billups will look like in this offense. I don't know how it will look when he starts to more instinctively know where Melo, Amare, Fields etc are when he gets said sh#t together. How will this look? My guess is pretty awesome..

    What type of player will Melo become as he continues to be more of a passer, utilizing the spacing to find cutters from the triple threat position?

    What about his D? Will he continue to give this much effort against the lesser teams and contenders alike?

    What type of playoff player will Fields be?

    How will Billups experience and Championship mettle affect this team?

    There are more questions than answers at this point..

    We are an unknown entity.

    I think this factor bodes well for us going into the playoffs.
    Melo might be streaky in the playoffs but Amare will shine, he dominated the Lakers in the playoffs with Nash.

    Melo will do well and Billups is the sleeper.

    If the Knicks do bad it will be the team defense and Chauncey Billups not doing anything.

    If Chauncey keeps it up then we can beat anybody.

    I would rather face the Heat.

    Fields will do ok I hope because he has stunk recently...I want Bill Walker to start over him

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    I forgot to add that this specifically was a part of your post that I really, strongly agree with.

    Utilising spacing has to start with effective off ball movement in transition. I don't think we're doing well enough in that regard.

    When we do become a better team in both regards, we won't lose to teams like Milwaukee, Charlotte etc. because our talent can carry us, as daunting a task as that sounds.

    Exciting stuff!
    Exactly, the fact there are so many question marks going in to playoffs makes this team uber-interesting as they continue to come together before our eyes.

    The ball movement off of help will undoubtedly be huge for us.

    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    Melo might be streaky in the playoffs but Amare will shine, he dominated the Lakers in the playoffs with Nash.

    Melo will do well and Billups is the sleeper.

    If the Knicks do bad it will be the team defense and Chauncey Billups not doing anything.

    If Chauncey keeps it up then we can beat anybody.

    I would rather face the Heat.

    Fields will do ok I hope because he has stunk recently...I want Bill Walker to start over him
    I agreed w everything except Fields not starting.

    Fields is better than Walker defensively and he's a ball mover. He should continue to start.

    And something tells me he's gonna come up clutch for us in one of these playoff games..

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    ^^^ I agree with everything...except what Paul said, re: Amare

    Hate to put a damper on it,

    But Amare's performance is exactly what won't be good enuff for us, and will have us pulling our hair out (and wanting D'ant fired).

    Yes, he offensively "dominated" LA. His defense was also as porous as it could ever be, and he got out'boarded...constantly...by point guards. And not the Jason kidd types...

    What he gave against LA is actually what we need least, and what he leapt gave is what we need most.

    Sure, score 25ppg a game and it'll be great for us...but let's not confuse that with shining, or dominance, or what we truly will need.

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