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Thread: I want a PG such as Jason Williams, Beno Undrih, and Jose Calderon

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Default I want a PG such as Jason Williams, Beno Undrih, and Jose Calderon

    I want my PG to keep an up-beat tempo, gets rid of the ball quickly unless he actually has a good plan, who can penetrate, and can score without taking many shots.

    Chris Paul, Deron Williams, etc. aren't these guys. They have the ball too much in their hands to make me want to spend that much on them. I rather have Nash if we're going for that kind of player.

    Watch these guys in my thread title play and you'll know what I'm talking about if you didn't already. If we can get a solid player like this who can even play defense, for half the price, or much less (draft, overseas, etc.), then amazing.

    Picture a consistently healthy Jason Williams dishing off to Amar'e and Melo. Should have gotten him as a back-up. If we're going to look for a young PG, that's the kind we need. Great tempo, good/great passer, good vision, and finish at the rim consistently, doesn't take too many shots. If the player doesn't have defense, unless he's incredibly bad, we take him and try to develop him (he might develop by his own hard work).

    We have two superstars, it shouldn't take another max to help THEM get easier buckets. It's gonna take this kind of PG and a center (DeAndre Jordan? Nene?).
    Last edited by RunningJumper; Mar 27, 2011 at 03:30.

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    I love the idea of either Nene or Jordan.

    Sounds like your looking for Rickey Rubio! If we can land a top ranked PG during the draft... Maybe we could force Minny into a trade which would land us Rubio? Who knows but I just cant stop dreaming of Rubio running our offense under MDA with Melo & Amare as his two favorite targets.

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    I love the idea of either Nene or Jordan.

    Sounds like your looking for Rickey Rubio! If we can land a top ranked PG during the draft... Maybe we could force Minny into a trade which would land us Rubio? Who knows but I just cant stop dreaming of Rubio running our offense under MDA with Melo & Amare as his two favorite targets.
    In the last hour I just looked up videos of Rubio! I saw a couple. One was just one pass from him and the other a mix that didn't show anything (and uncompleted plays). I was thinking about him though if he is this type of player.

    I like your ideas in the other thread about adding players who bring defense. Only thing I wouldn't like is trading Turiaf, who wouldn't want him to stay? But, if it makes our team better, then yeah. Hopefully we could keep him some way.

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    Member The Garden '95's Avatar
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    benu udrih is nice he shoots about 50% and he is so smart doesnt force shots and is clutch!

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    I want my PG to keep an up-beat tempo, gets rid of the ball quickly unless he actually has a good plan, who can penetrate, and can score without taking many shots.

    Chris Paul, Deron Williams, etc. aren't these guys. They have the ball too much in their hands to make me want to spend that much on them. I rather have Nash if we're going for that kind of player.

    Watch these guys in my thread title play and you'll know what I'm talking about if you didn't already. If we can get a solid player like this who can even play defense, for half the price, or much less (draft, overseas, etc.), then amazing.

    Picture a consistently healthy Jason Williams dishing off to Amar'e and Melo. Should have gotten him as a back-up. If we're going to look for a young PG, that's the kind we need. Great tempo, good/great passer, good vision, and finish at the rim consistently, doesn't take too many shots. If the player doesn't have defense, unless he's incredibly bad, we take him and try to develop him (he might develop by his own hard work).

    We have two superstars, it shouldn't take another max to help THEM get easier buckets. It's gonna take this kind of PG and a center (DeAndre Jordan? Nene?).
    Wow dude! You're really, really wrong about Paul. He does all of the things you said you wanted out of point.

    He does get rid of the ball quickly.

    He always has a plan/ idea of what he wants to do.

    He's very efficient and doesn't require many shots.

    And..., he gets in the paint at will.

    Chris Paul is the quintessential PG.

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    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    c/s Ron Ron, CP3 is the best PG available for the Knicks

    All those other bums would only contribute to our losing record, we obviously need defense + offense

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Wow dude! You're really, really wrong about Paul. He does all of the things you said you wanted out of point.

    He does get rid of the ball quickly.

    He always has a plan/ idea of what he wants to do.

    He's very efficient and doesn't require many shots.

    And..., he gets in the paint at will.

    Chris Paul is the quintessential PG.
    Yes, he's an amazing PG, and maybe he would get rid of the ball quicker with two superstars, but a lot of times lately (maybe because his knee is hurting more than he's/they're letting on) he's been usually getting rid of the ball with no apparent plan instead of going to work. What he did against the Suns the other night was vintage Chris Paul, which he hasn't done much of since very early in the season.

    I'm not saying Jason Williams in his prime is better than Chris Paul, but I rather have a prime Jason Williams and a good defensive center than a max PG in Paul. It's not like it's just our defense that's the problem, our offense has no flow either. If we could get one of the PGs I listed or one like them, then we go for a defensive center and another defender/rebounder.

    A new coach would be nice, or at least another defensive assistant, but either way, I think we should go this route.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Running,

    Paul's back from the injury. The knee brace is off and he no longer looks tentative or like he's holding back. I dvr'd the Suns v Hornets game and watched up to the end of the first half so far and he's looked great. Since he's come back after the concussion he's been tearing people apart. When he's right he's the best PG in the league.

    If you put him w Amare and Melo w some smart drafting/ acquisitions and we're a title contender.

    On his "planning", CP3 is always a couple of steps ahead, even when he was playing tentatively after coming back from the knee injury. There are only 4 PGs in the league that consistently display the mind of a true floor general @ the highest level. They are ~ Paul, Nash and Rondo. Kidd still has it upstairs, but can longer set guys up the way he used too due to him slowing down so much.

    Paul as i've said sooo many times is a true PG and the consummate floor general. There are few like him that can also defend, get in the paint @ will and shoot a high percentage from the field, charity stripe and from three. If we have a chance to get him we should. He's also the best ball handler in the league hands down if that means anything to you...

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Running,

    Paul's back from the injury. The knee brace is off and he no longer looks tentative or like he's holding back. I dvr'd the Suns v Hornets game and watched up to the end of the first half so far and he's looked great. Since he's come back after the concussion he's been tearing people apart. When he's right he's the best PG in the league.

    If you put him w Amare and Melo w some smart drafting/ acquisitions and we're a title contender.

    On his "planning", CP3 is always a couple of steps ahead, even when he was playing tentatively after coming back from the knee injury. There are only 4 PGs in the league that consistently display the mind of a true floor general @ the highest level. They are ~ Paul, Nash and Rondo. Kidd still has it upstairs, but can longer set guys up the way he used too due to him slowing down so much.

    Paul as i've said sooo many times is a true PG and the consummate floor general. There are few like him that can also defend, get in the paint @ will and shoot a high percentage from the field, charity stripe and from three. If we have a chance to get him we should. He's also the best ball handler in the league hands down if that means anything to you...
    The knee brace has been off several weeks. When he played against the Knicks recently he didn't have it on, and he didn't do much. After West's injury he HAS to step up now even if his knee is hurting.

    If Amar'e and Melo isn't enough for this team to the point we need another max, then that's pretty sad. They are enough though as long as we good a good tempo PG.

    Don't forget the emerging Fields either. In his rookie season he's shown me he could be an All-Star. Gallinari and Chandler showed that, but no consistent enough, even being in their third season.

    And I know all about his ball handling, I've been a fan of the Hornets since their Charlotte days. I watch them a lot on League Pass.

    I have no doubt in Chris Paul's skills and vision, it's just that he hasn't played the way we love that much in a while. David West has arguably been their best player of the season.

    I don't want to lose Fields because of another max. Imagine Chris Paul with Fields. Sounds amazing right? Well it wouldn't happen.

    Melo would be our only superstar we wouldn't be worried about injuries.

    Look at the Hornets in 2008-2009 with only one max level player. Chris Paul, David West (is a better shooter than Amar'e, but isn't as big and athletic), Peja (3-point sharp shooter), and Tyson Chandler, well rounded starting team. That team didn't get further the next year maybe because of injuries and lack of penetrators to help. We could have a well-rounded starting five and a well-rounded bench, but I doubt it with another max.

    I understand how Chris Paul could elevate players we draft's games, but you don't need a max PG for that.
    Last edited by RunningJumper; Mar 27, 2011 at 21:33.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    The knee brace has been off several weeks. When he played against the Knicks recently he didn't have it on, and he didn't do much. After West's injury he HAS to step up now even if his knee is hurting.

    If Amar'e and Melo isn't enough for this team to the point we need another max, then that's pretty sad. They are enough though as long as we good a good tempo PG.

    Don't forget the emerging Fields either. In his rookie season he's shown me he could be an All-Star. Gallinari and Chandler showed that, but no consistent enough, even being in their third season.

    And I know all about his ball handling, I've been a fan of the Hornets since their Charlotte days. I watch them a lot on League Pass.

    I have no doubt in Chris Paul's skills and vision, it's just that he hasn't played the way we love that much in a while. David West has arguably been their best player of the season.

    I don't want to lose Fields because of another max. Imagine Chris Paul with Fields. Sounds amazing right? Well it wouldn't happen.

    Melo would be our only superstar we wouldn't be worried about injuries.

    Look at the Hornets in 2008-2009 with only one max level player. Chris Paul, David West (is a better shooter than Amar'e, but isn't as big and athletic), Peja (3-point sharp shooter), and Tyson Chandler, well rounded starting team. That team didn't get further the next year maybe because of injuries and lack of penetrators to help. We could have a well-rounded starting five and a well-rounded bench, but I doubt it with another max.

    I understand how Chris Paul could elevate players we draft's games, but you don't need a max PG for that.
    David West has been the best player for them all season?? Really?

    You really don't grasp fully all that Paul does for a team Running.

    There are two primary reasons the Hornets are in the playoff hunt:

    1. Paul

    2. Their team defense..

    Paul spearheads their defense. He keeps opposing PGs from getting into the teeth of the defense. In other words he prevents breakdowns, which is extremely important. On offense he does what he does.. He's the heart and soul of that team. Take him off and they wouldn't win 10 games. Without West, there's a good chance they'll still make the playoffs. Paul is way better and sooo much more important than West. I can't believe you even said that..

    And dude, the knee brace was still on when we played the Hornets. And you right he had a bad game then. The knee brace was off when Paul came back from the concussion.

    I agree w you about not needing a third max, but since when has that ever stopped teams. The idea is to always go for the jugular when it comes to player acquisitions. Meaning if you can get the star you do it and then worry about putting together role type players around the main pieces.

    If Donnie has a legit oppo to get Paul, do you honestly think he won't try to make it happen? IMO he would because he knows that the way you win titles is with great players. That's why gave up so much to get Melo.

    You can always get roleplayers but rarely do you have the chance to get a Paul or a Melo, so when you can, you do it.

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    David West has been the best player for them all season?? Really?

    You really don't grasp fully all that Paul does for a team Running.

    There are two primary reasons the Hornets are in the playoff hunt:

    1. Paul

    2. Their team defense..

    Paul spearheads their defense. He keeps opposing PGs from getting into the teeth of the defense. In other words he prevents breakdowns, which is extremely important. On offense he does what he does.. He's the heart and soul of that team. Take him off and they wouldn't win 10 games. Without West, there's a good chance they'll still make the playoffs. Paul is way better and sooo much more important than West. I can't believe you even said that..

    And dude, the knee brace was still on when we played the Hornets. And you right he had a bad game then. The knee brace was off when Paul came back from the concussion.

    I agree w you about not needing a third max, but since when has that ever stopped teams. The idea is to always go for the jugular when it comes to player acquisitions. Meaning if you can get the star you do it and then worry about putting together role type players around the main pieces.

    If Donnie has a legit oppo to get Paul, do you honestly think he won't try to make it happen? IMO he would because he knows that the way you win titles is with great players. That's why gave up so much to get Melo.

    You can always get roleplayers but rarely do you have the chance to get a Paul or a Melo, so when you can, you do it.
    West is VERY important to that team. He is absolute money with his shot and he's a captain for a reason. He stepped up when Chris Paul went down last year and this season he's been great.

    Chris Paul does bring the defense no doubt, but don't doubt Okafor. When he was injured the Hornets struggled. Okafor's stats are not gonna blow you away, but he anchors the defense in the paint.

    West is consistent. And I said he's ARGUABLY their best player of the season, not is. Okafor is arguably as well. Chris Paul's play a lot of games might have cost them those games. Monty Williams is also heavy on defense. It's no question who the best player is on the team, but this season it is a question that's not gonna be answered because of how well Okafor and West played.

    If you want Chris Paul that bad, I don't see the need for Amar'e AND Melo, both of whom I want to be kept. If Chris Paul is healthy that long he wouldn't need both of them.

    As far as what Donnie would do, I wouldn't doubt him pass not passing up on him, but if he could get a NeNe plus a good passing PG I wouldn't doubt that yet either.

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    I'd love Paul's talents but when thinking about his MAX contract? No thanks. I want a complete team. Not 3 Stars & no supporting cast or chemistry.

    I agree with RunningJumper in terms of leaving CP3's MAX contract alone, while focusing on improving our team by adding a defensive Center (who can score), + landing an overall strong rebounder on the boards.

    The only thing left to do is improve our bench depth. Thats when we steal Battier as a FA this offseason. Excellent peremeter defender. L.Fields would learn & improve over-night.

    DeAndre: Defensive Center who can score as well as run the floor as an athletic C. Perfect for our offense under MDA & also exactly what our defense is in dire need of; a C who can fill lanes, box out, board & contest shots. Draft Kenneth Faried (Nations leading rebounder)

    C: Jordan
    PF: Amare
    SF: Melo
    SG: Fields
    PG: Douglas
    PF: Faried
    SF: Battier

    8 strong. Much improved D with Jordan, TD, Battier & Faried. Let Walsh shore up the bench depth with cheap Big's & Guards. JMHO.

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    Edit: 7 deep.

    @RunningJumper. Just read your post asking why I'd like to see Turiaf walk.

    Well, I agree... I'd hate to see his intensity go down the drain all because we're still in rebuilding mode but I just don't feel he's worth 4M as nothing more than a high energy guy & above average shot blocker.

    Once he picks up his player option worth 4M, we could then use Turiaf as trade bait to trade up to grab Kenneth Faried & improve our rebounding game in a major way. Sign Faried to around 1.5 & thats 2.5M saved while landing a player who has the potential to become our very own Anthony Mason off the bench; only a much better talent & athletic Mason type of grinder. With that 2.5M saved? We could then look to land an excellent peremeter defender in Battier for around 3.5 or 4M @ most. If not Battier for around 3-4M? Anyone else who can improve our team.

    I just feel we have more future options by moving Turiaf's 4M elsewhere.

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Edit: 7 deep.

    @RunningJumper. Just read your post asking why I'd like to see Turiaf walk.

    Well, I agree... I'd hate to see his intensity go down the drain all because we're still in rebuilding mode but I just don't feel he's worth 4M as nothing more than a high energy guy & above average shot blocker.

    Once he picks up his player option worth 4M, we could then use Turiaf as trade bait to trade up to grab Kenneth Faried & improve our rebounding game in a major way. Sign Faried to around 1.5 & thats 2.5M saved while landing a player who has the potential to become our very own Anthony Mason off the bench; only a much better talent & athletic Mason type of grinder. With that 2.5M saved? We could then look to land an excellent peremeter defender in Battier for around 3.5 or 4M @ most. If not Battier for around 3-4M? Anyone else who can improve our team.

    I just feel we have more future options by moving Turiaf's 4M elsewhere.
    Oh no, I wasn't asking why. I completely understand it. I just would like to see him stay because he's SUCH a good guy who you'd like to see win a championship, and with your own team to boot. And not just that he's a good guy, but he contributes.

    If we do trade him hopefully we get him back someday, and someday soon.

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    Superstar MSGhobo247's Avatar
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    None of those guys play any D so keeping Douglas is key.

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