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Thread: No joke: D'Antoni has Knicks thinking D

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Brewer is a dime a dozen player. Stop acting like he's some type of Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier or better yet... Scottie Pippen type of lock down peremeter defender.

    No way in hell would Brewer have been our best perimeter defender. Not even close to being better than Carmelo. When Carmelo is focused (which he always is come playoff time) he's a top 5 defensive SF. It won't take long before Fields is just as good, if not better than Brewer on the perimeter.

    Stop talking about these two guys MDA didn't play while refusing to give him credit for the one's he has. No coach in the NBA has played + started as many players as MDA has over the past 3 years.

    If Brewe is so great on defense... He should be getting alot more than 7 mins per game lol. He's a dime a dozen player. Nothing to write home about. The Knicks have a plan & a bright future under MDA & no name UNPROVEN projects like Darko, Brewer & AR aren't a part of it. Big deal. Guys like Felton, Chandler, Gallo, Fields, TD23, Amare & Melo were or are.
    You know whats funny too. These guys pine for ex-Knicks Darko, Brewer and AR yet Minnesota has all 3 and is 30th in points allowed! Thats in addition to having the best rebounder in the league to limit second chances!

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    You know whats funny too. These guys pine for ex-Knicks Darko, Brewer and AR yet Minnesota has all 3 and is 30th in points allowed! Thats in addition to having the best rebounder in the league to limit second chances!

    and look at their coach...lol.. however.. darko would help our need at center...

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    MDA has played & started more players than any other coach in the league over the last 3 years. Aging players = gone. Horrible players = gone. Non-team players = gone. He's building an up & coming contender. 4 of his guys landed us a Superstar & Billups.

    Marbury (ball-hog) gone.
    Nate (wasn't a team player). Gone.
    Duhon (horrible bust from duke). Gone.
    TD23 (Promising talent). Still here.
    Billups (Aging player). Still productive.
    Carter (Aging player). Trade throw-In.
    Felton (Career year under MDA)
    T-Mac (Aging player). Gone.
    Fields (Great rookie). Still here.
    Gallo (Developed by MDA). Traded.
    Chandler (Career year under MDA) Traded.
    Walker (Promising talent). Still here.
    Shawne (Hopeful talent). Still here.
    Melo (Superstar). Still here.
    David Lee (Couldn't afford). Gone.
    Amare (Developed under MDA). Still here.
    JJ (We needed help) Still here.
    Shelden (needed help) Now playing.
    Curry (Horrible bust) now gone.
    Mozgov (Rookie) was traded.

    Funny how they harp all over MDA for the 2 players he didn't play lol.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Sheldon Williams was an unproven non-rotation player who had to EARN minutes. He has now EARNED minutes is playing in our ROTATION. What is confusing?

    Yes, you gave 2 bigs. Earl Barron who is not on our ROSTER therefore countering your own initial attack on people who talk about the roster and Turiaf who gets as much playing time as his body dictates. MDA does not hesitate to play Turiaf when healthy.

    You make the point about Sheldon and then counter it with the very real fact that MDA played JJ solely for for defense.



    You are changing the subject. It is you who bolded the MDA quote and extrapolated an attack regarding size so stick to your own point or concede it was easily debunked and now you need to broaden the debate to salvage it.

    Brewer may have been our best perimeter defender(TD could have held that) if allowed the time at the expense of other players and the production of said player on both ends of the court. FYI, Brewer is averaging 7MPG on a lotto bound team who is dead last points allowed. Ask yourself why if he is so good and NBA ready that both Minnesota and Dallas found no use as of yet for him...



    I disagree and think MDA is smart enough (this article being further evidence) to know that with our current ROSTER we do not need an offensive center but rather a defender/rebounder. If you and I know it certainly a professional NBA head coach with a winning record and pedigree knows it...



    2 of those 3 years were rebuilding and Darko was never in our long term plans. He did play Barron last year. As to this year, MDA started the season with the ONLY other true center on the roster, Mozgov. Further Mozgov was our starting center when he was RELUCTANTLY traded for Melo.

    BTW, you have no idea what Jerome Jordan can contribute and to pretend like you do or that MDA would willfully leave a better player in Europe rather than utilize him is nonsense.
    hilarious.... size is determine by position.. for instance TD is an undersized 2.. jefferies is a 3.. he not even an undersized 4.. he a 3.. and our coach is playin him at center....just like when he playe chandler at the 4.. or gallo at the 4.. these guys are not playing their correct postion.. get it... they are undersize for their position..

    why not play 3 guards a PF and a center if you want to go small ball??? like detroit did.. but you need a legit 5.. get it.. a banger...im sure there a few in the d league..

    dont mind him playin JJ as a backup.. not at the 5..

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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    hilarious.... size is determine by position.. for instance TD is an undersized 2.. jefferies is a 3.. he not even an undersized 4.. he a 3.. and our coach is playin him at center....just like when he playe chandler at the 4.. or gallo at the 4.. these guys are not playing their correct postion.. get it... they are undersize for their position..

    why not play 3 guards a PF and a center if you want to go small ball??? like detroit did.. but you need a legit 5.. get it.. a banger...im sure there a few in the d league..

    dont mind him playin JJ as a backup.. not at the 5..
    Nice to distort one of my many points. If you are going to quote and distort me you might as well distort my entire post...

    Those players played out of position because of our ROSTER guy. I have been making this point for months! MDA tried going traditional with:

    C-Mozgov
    PF-Amare
    SF- Gallo (oversized SF)
    SG- Fields (oversized SG who is really a SF)
    PG- Felton

    6th man- Chandler

    ^^That is traditional and MDA's FIRST OPTION. He only went to a "small ball" lineup when it was clear Mozgov was not ready and only after we started the season horribly.

    Further, we are now going with a traditional lineup:

    C-Turiaf when healthy who happens to be our best big or Sheldon/JJ our only two other bigs
    PF-Amare
    SF-Melo
    SG-Fields
    PG-Billups

    He then rotates in multiple players and PLAYS THE BEST PLAYERS POSSIBLE on our ROSTER.

    P.S. Shawne Williams played brilliantly against Dwight Howard with the help of a great team defensive scheme.

    P.P.S. If MDA had a legit center that was NBA ready he would play him. This all comes down to our roster and the hard choices MDA must make.

    The only thing hilarious is you ever changing points that morph around the dead ends I expose.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    What "big" players would you have D'ant play that he currently doesn't?
    Remember those guys we had before that never got playing time? Mozgov and Randolph?

    MDA has shown a definite change in style after the trade. Good for him. Good for us.

    If he doesn't hold his players accountable for lazy effort and doesn't come up with better defensive schemes when the playoff comes along, it's not going to be pretty... and he will lose his job.

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    Great post about the lineups TR1LL.

    I have a feeling we go after DeAndre Jordan guns blazing. Just like MDA has always loved Amare as his PF; He'll LOVE DeAndre Jordan as his ATHLETIC Center.

    One thing the NBA has yet to see MDA have? Two ATHLETIC big's who can BOTH run the floor out of the C & PF position's. DeAndre Jordan is a match made in heaven for not only MDA, but for our team. Jordan can run, he can full lanes, he can block & contest shots. He's able to score & most importantly? This kid can board on the glass. Trust me, I know, I try & watch this kid every chance I get thanks to the NBA league pass. The kid puts up rebound numbers & competes with his own teammate Blake Griffin who's a high flying rebounding machine. I've seen Jordan & Blake compete for a rebound against EACHOTHER! It's almost like they have a bet who can board the most per game. If DeAndre can put up numbers with the Clippers... He'll put up 12-15 rebounds per in NY. Amare is not Blake & Blake steals a good 3-6 per from Jordan.

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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    Remember those guys we had before that never got playing time? Mozgov and Randolph?

    MDA has shown a definite change in style after the trade. Good for him. Good for us.

    If he doesn't hold his players accountable for lazy effort and doesn't come up with better defensive schemes when the playoff comes along, it's not going to be pretty... and he will lose his job.
    I already addressed both in multiple threads and multiple times in this thread. To say he did not give Mozgov minutes is to ignore reality. To say he did not prefer to have Mozgov as the starting center is to ignore reality. Meh...

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    Only a clueless fan would EXPECT an NBA coach to start a Russian project from day one, a Russian project who's only a rookie; One who has NEVER played American ball before.

    Start that type of ROOKIE from day one in a playoff race? Are you kidding me?

    Some of these guys who make those types of remarks have no idea what it means to develope a young kid from the bench, let alone a Euro-Rook. Sad. Mozgov was trash to begin with as a starter. Rookie only averaged 2 points & 3 boards per game before getting traded. Even JJ's more productive.

    MDA played Mozgov once he thought Mozgov was ready to fill in for Turiaf. It's as simple as that.

    Fields has started EVERY GAME since game #2. MDA knew which rookie to start from day one. The more polished, more productive & the more developed rookie of the two. He goes by the name of Landy Fields. MDA knowns "ready talent" when he spots it. Thats why he's an NBA head coach making 6M per; while you watch the games from your living room BELIEVING "you can do oh so better"

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Great post about the lineups TR1LL.

    I have a feeling we go after DeAndre Jordan guns blazing. Just like MDA has always loved Amare as his PF; He'll LOVE DeAndre Jordan as his ATHLETIC Center.

    One thing the NBA has yet to see MDA have? Two ATHLETIC big's who can BOTH run the floor out of the C & PF position's. DeAndre Jordan is a match made in heaven for not only MDA, but for our team. Jordan can run, he can full lanes, he can block & contest shots. He's able to score & most importantly? This kid can board on the glass. Trust me, I know, I try & watch this kid every chance I get thanks to the NBA league pass. The kid puts up rebound numbers & competes with his own teammate Blake Griffin who's a high flying rebounding machine. I've seen Jordan & Blake compete for a rebound against EACHOTHER! It's almost like they have a bet who can board the most per game. If DeAndre can put up numbers with the Clippers... He'll put up 12-15 rebounds per in NY. Amare is not Blake & Blake steals a good 3-6 per from Jordan.
    You honestly believe Jordan would average 12-15 rebounds per game in New York?.....

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Nice to distort one of my many points. If you are going to quote and distort me you might as well distort my entire post...

    Those players played out of position because of our ROSTER guy. I have been making this point for months! MDA tried going traditional with:

    C-Mozgov
    PF-Amare
    SF- Gallo (oversized SF)
    SG- Fields (oversized SG who is really a SF)
    PG- Felton

    6th man- Chandler

    ^^That is traditional and MDA's FIRST OPTION. He only went to a "small ball" lineup when it was clear Mozgov was not ready and only after we started the season horribly.

    Further, we are now going with a traditional lineup:

    C-Turiaf when healthy who happens to be our best big or Sheldon/JJ our only two other bigs
    PF-Amare
    SF-Melo
    SG-Fields
    PG-Billups

    He then rotates in multiple players and PLAYS THE BEST PLAYERS POSSIBLE on our ROSTER.

    P.S. Shawne Williams played brilliantly against Dwight Howard with the help of a great team defensive scheme.

    P.P.S. If MDA had a legit center that was NBA ready he would play him. This all comes down to our roster and the hard choices MDA must make.

    The only thing hilarious is you ever changing points that morph around the dead ends I expose.
    turiaf was not injured and he played JJ at center.. dont you agree that sheldan would be a better fit at the 5 than JJ?

    O'antoni admitted that he likes to get amare time at the 5...why??..now he has to make some changes.. which his is doing... good for him...

    i just think about all the player over the years that were crossed off the list becuase they did not fit his system.. which leads me to believe thats why most BIGs dont develop well under him. and why we dont have additional bigs like most teams in the NBA.. most nba teams have at least 3 PF/Center...

    last question.. who is our backup at the 4 spot to amare???

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    I already addressed both in multiple threads and multiple times in this thread. To say he did not give Mozgov minutes is to ignore reality. To say he did not prefer to have Mozgov as the starting center is to ignore reality. Meh...
    Didn't he bench Moz after he showed some growing pains early in the season, only to be forced to play him when we were missing like 2-3 players in our 8 man rotation? I remember that game at the Garden against the Pistons I believe, and we were all chanting Mozgov's name by the end of the game. Then suddenly he starts to get more playing time. Just like the game against Utah when it was out of hand in the 4th, we start chanting for Roger Mason, who steps in hits some shots, and is suddenly in the rotation.

    Technically you're right, he did give Moz minutes and he did prefer to start him at some point during the season, but too often MDA gives players minutes after they're either forced into a game because of other players being out, or impressing during garbage time. That doesn't really seem like a coach recognizing what he has and utilizing it.

    Trill kind of reminds me of a lawyer. Where someone takes a situation that has two sides two it, and words his statement in a way that kind of diminishes the other side or acts like it's not there.

    Yes, to say he did not give Moz minutes and to say he didn't prefer to have him as a starting center is to ignore reality, but to also say that MDA did not bench Moz indefinitely and only give him some minutes when 2-3 of our 8 man rotation was not available, is to also ignore reality.

    It's kind of hard to predict (or down right impossible) if Moz would have played in that game or in the stretch of games he had after, if our regular rotation was intact. The evidence of his multiple DNPs before that game lends itself to the notion that he would have sat his big russian ass on the bench for a few more games. But then you can also make the argument that MDA saw "something" in practice and shoot arounds that made him start Moz....it was just a coincidence that Turiaf, Williams, and I think Walker, all weren't playing. One assumption has Mozgov's DNPs and the fact that a quarter of our rotation was out, so we needed bodies to take those minutes, and the other assumption has....
    Last edited by nuckles2k2; Apr 06, 2011 at 10:39.

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Didn't he bench Moz after he showed some growing pains early in the season, only to be forced to play him when we were missing like 2-3 players in our 8 man rotation? I remember that game at the Garden against the Pistons I believe, and we were all chanting Mozgov's name by the end of the game. Then suddenly he starts to get more playing time. Just like the game against Utah when it was out of hand in the 4th, we start chanting for Roger Mason, who steps in hits some shots, and is suddenly in the rotation.

    Technically you're right, he did give Moz minutes and he did prefer to start him at some point during the season, but too often MDA gives players minutes after they're either forced into a game because of other players being out, or impressing during garbage time. That doesn't really seem like a coach recognizing what he has and utilizing it.

    Trill kind of reminds me of a lawyer. Where someone takes a situation that has two sides two it, and words his statement in a way that kind of diminishes the other side or acts like it's not there.

    Yes, to say he did not give Moz minutes and to say he didn't prefer to have him as a starting center is to ignore reality, but to also say that MDA did not bench Moz indefinitely and only give him some minutes when 2-3 of our 8 man rotation was not available, is to also ignore reality.

    It's kind of hard to predict (or down right impossible) if Moz would have played in that game or in the stretch of games he had after, if our regular rotation was intact. The evidence of his multiple DNPs before that game lends itself to the notion that he would have sat his big russian ass on the bench for a few more games. But then you can also make the argument that MDA saw "something" in practice and shoot arounds that made him start Moz....it was just a coincidence that Turiaf, Williams, and I think Walker, all weren't playing. One assumption has Mozgov's DNPs and the fact that a quarter of our rotation was out, so we needed bodies to take those minutes, and the other assumption has....

    Read all my posts. I clearly stated that MDA started the season with Moz as his first option and benched him at of necessity for Chandler. (that adjustment lead to many wins) That point was made in response to the inaccurate assertion that MDA's first choice is to run a small team. Further, while Mozgov got his second chance because of injury having Mozgov starting was always MDA's preferred choice. Sure it took a breakout game to get his spot BACK but MDA stayed with him even when injuries were no longer a factor. Those facts directly counter assertions that MDA prefers a small lineup verse a traditional lineup. MDA pefers any lineup that is going to win games.

    BTW, comparing me to a lawyer in the context of a back and forth debate is a compliment so thank you.

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    It's kind of hard to predict (or down right impossible) if Moz would have played in that game or in the stretch of games he had after, if our regular rotation was intact. The evidence of his multiple DNPs before that game lends itself to the notion that he would have sat his big russian ass on the bench for a few more games. But then you can also make the argument that MDA saw "something" in practice and shoot arounds that made him start Moz....it was just a coincidence that Turiaf, Williams, and I think Walker, all weren't playing. One assumption has Mozgov's DNPs and the fact that a quarter of our rotation was out, so we needed bodies to take those minutes, and the other assumption has....
    I understand what you're saying but you are missing one key point. When MOA was asked by the media immediately before that Detroit game if Moz was back in the rotation, MOA said "I'm not going to upset my applecart." Clearly stating Moz was going back to the bench.

    Only Moz BEASTED and forced his way into the lineup. MOA had no clue what he had with Moz or AR. Or he had a clue and just didnt care. Remember he wants to win HIS WAY...

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Read all my posts. I clearly stated that MDA started the season with Moz as his first option and benched him at of necessity for Chandler. (that adjustment lead to many wins) That point was made in response to the inaccurate assertion that MDA's first choice is to run a small team. Further, while Mozgov got his second chance because of injury having Mozgov starting was always MDA's preferred choice. Sure it took a breakout game to get his spot BACK but MDA stayed with him even when injuries were no longer a factor. Those facts directly counter assertions that MDA prefers a small lineup verse a traditional lineup. MDA pefers any lineup that is going to win games.
    MOA was forced to stay with him. It wasnt a shrewd coaching move like you're trying to portray it. I dont understand why you guys that protect MOA dont look at the facts. Look at the facts and anyone with any sort of intelligence can sort through this.

    See my post to Nuckles...

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