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Thread: The plan never changed

  1. #16
    Veteran AmareForPresident's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    The toast in Miami was the precursor to the moves we've seen and the ones to come. I believe Amare, Melo and Paul knew where Lebron and Bosh would go before the now infamous "decision".

    I think they vowed to form there own big three on our team.

    I firmly believe we're getting Paul. Somehow, someway he'll be a Knick.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on what will make us a title contender..
    Dude your acting like cp3 is the same from last year,plus how do you know that he will stay healthy the whole season?

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    I want a real team. A dynasty.

    I don't want 3 superstars, no talent surrounding our supporting cast, cap hell, & a bench as horrible as Miami.

    You cant compare Amare, Melo & CP3 to KG, Allen & Pierce. Boston never had 3 MAX contract's. They were put together through trades, not "MAX free agent signings". Thats the reason why they had guys like Perkins, Big Baby Davis, Shaq, O'Neal, Nate & now Kristic & Green... Because they've nevver been in cap hell. I find it funny when people try to say we'll become the "next Boston" when NY would be in serious cap hell with no ability to improve.

    During the Ewing era, we were always one top 10 superstar that could match Pippen & take out the Bulls. Amare & Melo combine for the most star power this franchise has seen since the early 70's. We don't need to add another superstar & put this franchise in cap hell with no financial ability to improve. We have a top 5 star in Melo + a top 10 beast in Amare; it's time to build around these guys & form a championship team.

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    CP3 has been injury prone. With the addition of CP3, that means we can no longer afford A) a FA C upgrade @ the C position such as DeAndre this summer, B) No longer have the ability to extend two home-grown talents in Fields & "TD23" & C) No way to keep strong talent/potential off the bench such as TD23, Turiaf, Walker & Shawne. Our bench becomes full of aging players & career nothings (see MIA) such as JJ, Carter, Shelden, Mason, Brown, Rautins etc + the Arroyo's of the world. Future pathetic-joke of a "bench".

    Forget Paul & his MAX. I take DeAndre (C), Fields (SG), TD23 (PG), a deep bench & salary cap to improve our TEAM over CP3 all day & twice during the playoffs. He's no MJ23.

    Wake me up when MIA has a winning record against +.500 teams; Overrated.

    It was also sad to see someone use the Spurs as an example for this situation. lol SA never had anything CLOSE to 3 MAX contracts.

    Our defense & rebounding ability would become even WORSE than what it already is after losing Fields, TD23 & Turiaf. No thnx.

  4. #19
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    Default Tone(y) it down

    Toney Douglas is not a point guard and playing him there would signal the destruction of any sort of offensive flow. I think Wednesday's Sixers game more than demonstrated this. I agree the Knicks need a proper PG, but I think they are better off having an above average Center and an average PG (on Felton's level) rather than the other way around.

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    TD23 is only a RAW 2nd year player. This is pretty much his rook season; never got much playing time or experience last year. He's learning on the fly but it's only a matter of time before he learns how to control, run & lead an offense. He's almost everything MDA loves about a PG. Can shoot the 3 & he's an explosive scorer. Toney can pass too; he just needs time to develope into a floor general @ the Point.

    Right now he's getting developed under two great PG's in MDA as a coach & Billups as championship leading veteran PG. The sky is the limit for TD23. Reminds me of a younger Russell Westbrook type of up coming talent. Toney can shoot the 3, nice jumper, can drive the rock & finish either strong or athletic @ the rim & most importantly? One hell of a defensive PG who can limit opposing PG's from putting up strong production. Kid won all types of ACC defensive awards. Best FSU Guard defender since Charlie Ward. Much better offensive talent though.

    MDA, Melo & Amare will become a blessing for TD23's future

  6. #21
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    TD23 is only a RAW 2nd year player. This is pretty much his rook season; never got much playing time or experience last year. He's learning on the fly but it's only a matter of time before he learns how to control, run & lead an offense. He's almost everything MDA loves about a PG. Can shoot the 3 & he's an explosive scorer. Toney can pass too; he just needs time to develope into a floor general @ the Point.

    Right now he's getting developed under two great PG's in MDA as a coach & Billups as championship leading veteran PG. The sky is the limit for TD23. Reminds me of a younger Russell Westbrook type of up coming talent. Toney can shoot the 3, nice jumper, can drive the rock & finish either strong or athletic @ the rim & most importantly? One hell of a defensive PG who can limit opposing PG's from putting up strong production. Kid won all types of ACC defensive awards. Best FSU Guard defender since Charlie Ward. Much better offensive talent though.

    MDA, Melo & Amare will become a blessing for TD23's future
    Well he is 25. 2 years older than Westbrook. His passing skills are average, he may well learn to control himself in the future but I don't think he's PG material. I do think however that he can be used to guard opposing PG's. I reckon he'll be a very decent 6th man; maybe even start at 2 when we want to field a perimeter orientated team. I don't see him developing into a star player though. Good shot, good defence, limited basketball IQ at the mo. At 25, I see him becoming a Jason Terry type of player which is still a very good thing for the Knicks.

  7. #22
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Thumbs up good points guys, but..

    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    Dude your acting like cp3 is the same from last year,plus how do you know that he will stay healthy the whole season?
    Paul was cleared to play this season after the knee injury he suffered last season. He started the season wearing a knee brace as a precaution and now, if you've noticed he's no longer even wearing it. Paul is fine. He has continued to recover fully throughout the season from his knee injury while playing and carried his team to the playoffs in a tough western conference. That dude is for real. He's also healthy. It might appear that he's had alot of niggling injuries throughout the season, but when you're your team's only star you're going to get nicked up..

    Amare had microfacture surgery on his knee. Bosh has creaky knees. This did not stop them from moving on to new teams hand recieveing huge contracts? Why should a healed injury prevent Paul from doing the same.

    Kobe has little to no cartilage in his left knee. Said knee has not prevented him from playing well all season. Jordan had creaky knees. He had chronic tendonitis from the time he was 29. Your point is??



    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    I want a real team. A dynasty.

    I don't want 3 superstars, no talent surrounding our supporting cast, cap hell, & a bench as horrible as Miami.

    You cant compare Amare, Melo & CP3 to KG, Allen & Pierce. Boston never had 3 MAX contract's. They were put together through trades, not "MAX free agent signings". Thats the reason why they had guys like Perkins, Big Baby Davis, Shaq, O'Neal, Nate & now Kristic & Green... Because they've nevver been in cap hell. I find it funny when people try to say we'll become the "next Boston" when NY would be in serious cap hell with no ability to improve.

    During the Ewing era, we were always one top 10 superstar that could match Pippen & take out the Bulls. Amare & Melo combine for the most star power this franchise has seen since the early 70's. We don't need to add another superstar & put this franchise in cap hell with no financial ability to improve. We have a top 5 star in Melo + a top 10 beast in Amare; it's time to build around these guys & form a championship team.

    Well what if Amare and Melo restructured their deals to accomodate Paul? The big three in Miami all took less money. So did the big three in Boston. Maybe the plan all along has been for them to follow suit. Who knows. All I know is that somehow this Paul acquisition needs to get done and probably will. We need him on this team. Nobody could run this team better than Paul in my opinion.

    Your point about not needing another superstar because we have Melo and Amare is well taken KFFQ. In the NBA YOU NEED TWO STARS AT MINIMUM TO WIN IT ALL. Fine, I know this. But if we have the opportunity with the coming of a new CBA and the increased cap that might bring, then you do a deal.

    If the cap stays the same and is not lowered, which I (I simply cannot see David Stern allowing teams to have even less flexibiltiy) really see happening. If we keep Billups at 14 million for next year and let him walk after next season, we'd have that for Paul. Or we buy him out sign him to a new 1 yr deal and let him walk and we'll still have that space. What if Paul decides he'll take less (11-14 million)money than Melo and Amare to sign w us in free agency after the 2012 season..? We drop a couple of the guys we have now, retool w some hungry role guys who'll play for the minimum, some smart, lucky drafting and we're good to go.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Apr 08, 2011 at 11:06.

  8. #23
    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    Dude your acting like cp3 is the same from last year,plus how do you know that he will stay healthy the whole season?
    Paul has had a really poor year, I mean just check out the win shares comparison and you'll see that ...

    CP3 was injured, like many players have been before and since, he isn't injured now and he's carrying his team as he always has due to him being the best PG in the game.

    How do we know ANYONE will stay healthy the whole season?

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    The only way I'm down to see CP3 as a Knick is if 4 things happen to prevent major cap hell.

    1) Amare agrees to take 3M less per year.
    2) Melo agrees to take 3M less per year.

    After we buy Billups contract out, that saces about 12M.

    12 from Billups + 3 from Melo + 3 from Amare comes out to a total of 18M in savings. If Melo & Amare really dream of Paul + a championship? They let go of 3M each & continue to live rich for life.

    3) With that 18M in savings, we sign CP3 for 9M per & 4) a Center this offseason such as Gasol or DeAndre for 7M. Still leaves with 2M to build around the team.

    Thats the only way. Even if we lose Fields & TD23, we gain for example DeAndre & CP3.

    C- DeAndre
    PF- Amare
    SF- Melo
    PG- CP3

    I'd love that starting lineup. We'd have to get lucky & draft another talented rookie such as a Fields during the draft.

    I'd love CP3 the player. Hate what his MAX contract would do to our franchise. I highy doubt both Melo & Amare agree to take 3M less per year. I also highy doubt CP3 plays for 9M.

  10. #25
    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    At this point I think if I had to choose between CP3 & a role player like Turiaf at C or keeping Chauncey & being able to sign someone like Deandre Jordan or some other legitimate 7 foot starting calibre C, I'd take the latter, especially with CP3's injury issues & lack of cartilage in both knees. I love CP3 but now that we have the 2 superstars in place that can carry the offense, I think it's more important to build the supplementary pieces around them than to focus on bringing in another superstar.

  11. #26
    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
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    Wondering if anyone's attitude towards this trade has changed with the news that CP3 apparently will wait to become a FA to get his move to NY.

  12. #27
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    my wisdom never changed lol.

    i love how my posts stand the test of time.

    dudes arguing with me sound funny in here

  13. #28
    Member serendipity10's Avatar
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    CP3 is worth getting. Seeing some arguments opposing getting CP3 is kind of weak. I'm all about building a strong team. A team, works with a list of things. If Knicks pull off CP3

    1. A passer- CP3

    2. star player (finisher/clutch)- Melo

    3. inside scorer- STAT

    4. outside scorer- Knicks have a list of players

    5. inside defender/rebounding- ???? (easy to acquire)

    6. outside defense- TD, CP3, Iman

    7. Role players- any player can fill this job

    With three star players other players on the floor will have easier shots and opportunities to drive to the basket. CP3, STAT, and Melo all can score and to make things better one of them is one of the best passers. Melo and STAT are decent inside defenders and rebounders, only need a Center. Even Center won't be hard to acquire, veteran minimum, a defensive minded Center, or a rookie surprise.

    Having all stars makes it easier for others to play, look at Shawne Williams and Landry Fields.

  14. #29
    Veteran p0nder's Avatar
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    #5 is not as easy to acquire as you think. The Shaq's, Bill Russell's, Pat Ewings, Hakeem's and Tim Duncans of the NBA don't just grow on trees.

    While I would be fine with getting cp3, i can see how the argument for pursuing dwight howard at all costs supplants "the toast" as a better overall strategy. Still, these guys seems to make a real commitment with that toast and so far all aspects of it have come to fruition. I have no reason to believe that they won't be united in NY by this time next season

    (other then that pesky "money" stuff, but i'll leave that to the espn trade machine analysts to figure out.)

  15. #30
    Member serendipity10's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    #5 is not as easy to acquire as you think. The Shaq's, Bill Russell's, Pat Ewings, Hakeem's and Tim Duncans of the NBA don't just grow on trees.

    While I would be fine with getting cp3, i can see how the argument for pursuing dwight howard at all costs supplants "the toast" as a better overall strategy. Still, these guys seems to make a real commitment with that toast and so far all aspects of it have come to fruition. I have no reason to believe that they won't be united in NY by this time next season

    (other then that pesky "money" stuff, but i'll leave that to the espn trade machine analysts to figure out.)
    My bad, by easy to acquire for center I meant good enough to fill in. With three allstars there is no need for the center to score and with CP3 at point might even create for the center. If all energy is put to defend and rebound someone like Robin Lopez, Andris Biedrins, or maybe even Jerome Jordan can produce.

    Your right a great center is a hard find, but all the Knicks need if CP3 would join is an average Center who fills the role.

    I also agree on Dwight being a better pickup, but CP3 as of right now seems more possible and people were arguing CP3 would be bad for the Knicks. I'm showing that isn't the case.

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