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Thread: Some say TD23 doesn't have what it takes or the potential to become a starting PG...

  1. #16
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Deron is not playing, and you keep somehow missing the point. It's not about what TD does against other players, and it's not about whether or not MDA cares for TD or knows the PG position well...Toney Douglas is not a point guard. He's a shooting guard trying to make the transition, a very tough transition, a transition that most small SGs don't make.

    Toney Douglas' position is shooting guard, Toney Douglas' skill-set is best utilized at the shooting guard position, the best place to put Toney Douglas to maximize the talents that he currently possess without trying to "teach" him a new position is shooting guard.

    Toney Douglas can naturally get his own shot, when he's trying to run the offense and facilitate...it doesn't look natural. You can see point guard qualities that can be grown and expanded in young players, TD doesn't really show those qualities. Even when he puts up decent assist numbers he still looks like a shooting guard that's passing the ball as opposed to a point guard running the offense.

    If he didn't grow up controlling the ball and playing the point, then chances are he doesn't have those qualities in his game. It doesn't matter how much the coach cares for the player, some things can't be taught by another human being...so you roll with what the player has and work with that.

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    He's not a natural 2G, if he were... MDA wouldn't be developing him as a PG. Mike may lack defensive coaching ability, but he's grade-A in terms of offensive ability & coaching. He knows what he's doing with TD23 & it's foolish to think we know more about this situation that MDA himself.

    MDA knows the PG position as well as an offensive attack better than me, you & this entire message board combined Bro.

    I seen many of great games from TD as a PG with FSU. He was a combo Guard for us. He wasn't a SG & he wasn't a PG for FSU; he was a well rounded combo Guard.

    He's not a natural NBA SG. The man is 5'11-6'1 @ the very most. Way too short to compete against much taller 2G's who can back him down & shoot over him all night. TD makes for a strong, powerful PG who can dominate opposing PG's with toughness. I seen this kid grow up over night with the Knicks under MDA. He's no where near the type of off the ball player that Fields has become as a rookie. No where near it. He's not an NBA SG, way too small.

  3. #18
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    Tony Douglas is a great back up shooting guard off the bench.
    He can be used as a point guard when needed but we should have better options.
    He deserves 25 minutes or more a game.
    He gets better each year.
    I would much rather have him then Jamal Crawford coming off the bench.
    TD plays both sides of the ball...
    And I can live with the 2 shots he throws up that can make u cringe and then evolve to anger of WHY....
    But like I said he has improved and hopefully the BAD shots will vanish.

  4. #19
    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WrongIslander
    They're right. He's improving but he's basically an energy player who will win some games but not enough to lead this team and that's what we need.
    Depends on what you expect, the next Chris Paul/Deron Williams or the next Charlie Ward/Chris Childs.

    Ward and Childs were both pretty good for us, we've reached the NBA Finals and 2000 Eastern Conf. Finals with them running the point. Neither of them was anywhere near as good or talented as Chris Paul/Deron Williams or Derrick Rose.

    I think T-Doug 23 is more than capable of beeing our starting PG. He's a great defender, good 3 point shooter, solid ball handler and tough minded guy. Basically everything that Ward and CHilds brought to the table. They weren't 8 or 9 apg guys either.

    I say we need a better shooter at the SG position than we have atm. I hope Fields can improve, because atm his shooting is pretty average (despite good fg%).

    I think you can't judge a player by himself. It depends on chemistry. TD 23 would fit right in with let's say: Melo, STAT, DeAndre Jordan and a pure shooter at the 2.

    A starting backcourt of Fields and Douglas would not be that good imo, in terms of spacing and spreading the floor for STAT, Melo and a new center (Jordan).

    So to summarize it: Yes I think T-Doug has the ability to be our starting PG from 2k12 onwards, however if we're going to sacrifice some playmaking ability at the PG spot we need to make up for it by spreading the floor for our big men and Melo, with a good to great shooter at the 2.

    J.J. Redick? Xavier Henry? Anthony Morrow? Jimmer Fredette?

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    Also, if defense wins chips, the best way we could form a top 15 or even top 10 D is with TD23 @ PG & Fields @ SG.

    You won't find many defensive PG's better than TD. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's averaging over 1.5 steals per game as a backup! Thats insane. Also, like I've stated in the past, I've seen him dominate entie back-courts during his days with FSU. Earned ACC awards on the defensive end. Best defensive FSU Guard since Charlie Ward; by far too. If we dream of a top 10 defense; Douglas is the PG I want. He also applies ALOT of pressure on opping D's @ the head of our attack. A PG who can put up 25-30+ any given night, with two of the NBA's top 5 scorers? Deadly trying to defend against.

    Fields has shown defensive ability & potential as a rookie, that calls for a very strong future perimeter defender.

    When Melo's focused on defense with effort; he's a top 5 defensive SF. Great SF rebounder too.

    Amare is Amare, but that only leaves the C position to improve. Gasol or DeAndre would be PERFECT...

  6. #21
    Superstar MSGhobo247's Avatar
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    Down the line he can be a starter but not by 2012. I just don't see him turn players down like what Rondo has to deal with. Rondo is playing with multiple stars and will turn down one of them who can be screaming for the ball if he sees a better play elsewhere. TD just gives the ball up to Stat and Melo whenever they call for it... That's not a floor general.

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    Veteran petescud's Avatar
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    couldn't agree more...and he has deadly aim from 3 point land


    Originally Posted by NY17
    I like him as a 6th man combo guard playing 25 minutes, but not as a full time starting PG.

  8. #23
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    Rondo is also a horrible shooter who would be nothing without KG, Pierce, Allen & a deep supporting cast of role players. It's kind of hard to say "TD just gives the ball up" when the man has put up 11 games with 16, 16, 17, 17, 17, 18, 18, 20, 24, 28 & 29 points during our last 20 games. Also had 3 games with 10-11 points during that span.

    He's an excellent scorer & has been so since his FSU days. Playing with Amare, Melo + a real Center will make Douglas become more deadly than what he's already shown to be.

    The fact that he understands that both Melo & Amare are the Alpha-Dawg's of our offensive attack make for a strong sign. If he were ignoring or even refusing to give the rock up when both Melo & Amare call for the ball; then you know we have a problem.

    He's not a real floor general as of right now, but then again, he's only a 2nd year player & pretty much a 1st year player on a consistant basis. Plenty of room to improve with his ability to control the pace & flow of the game. He's learning.

  9. #24
    Member kylepicklehead's Avatar
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    Mr. Big shot Junior.

  10. #25
    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Rondo is also a horrible shooter who would be nothing without KG, Pierce, Allen & a deep supporting cast of role players. It's kind of hard to say "TD just gives the ball up" when the man has put up 11 games with 16, 16, 17, 17, 17, 18, 18, 20, 24, 28 & 29 points during our last 20 games. Also had 3 games with 10-11 points during that span.

    He's an excellent scorer & has been so since his FSU days. Playing with Amare, Melo + a real Center will make Douglas become more deadly than what he's already shown to be.

    The fact that he understands that both Melo & Amare are the Alpha-Dawg's of our offensive attack make for a strong sign. If he were ignoring or even refusing to give the rock up when both Melo & Amare call for the ball; then you know we have a problem.

    He's not a real floor general as of right now, but then again, he's only a 2nd year player & pretty much a 1st year player on a consistant basis. Plenty of room to improve with his ability to control the pace & flow of the game. He's learning.
    Did you seriously just compare Rondo to TD? What next? Turiaf and Howard?

    Rondo might be a horrible shooter, he's also a pure passing PG of the highest calibre. TD's game isn't passing, it's D (admirable) and shooting. He's an undersized SG and he's gonna have to work very hard on his game if he ever wants to be the man you are suggesting. Don't get me wrong I wanted him here big time and I'm happy he is here but the leap for him to be starting PG is so huge it's not even funny.

  11. #26
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WrongIslander
    Did you seriously just compare Rondo to TD? What next? Turiaf and Howard?

    Rondo might be a horrible shooter, he's also a pure passing PG of the highest calibre. TD's game isn't passing, it's D (admirable) and shooting. He's an undersized SG and he's gonna have to work very hard on his game if he ever wants to be the man you are suggesting. Don't get me wrong I wanted him here big time and I'm happy he is here but the leap for him to be starting PG is so huge it's not even funny.
    I don't at all agree with the comparison but to be fair Rondo didn't start out as an elite passer.

  12. #27
    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    I don't at all agree with the comparison but to be fair Rondo didn't start out as an elite passer.
    He started off with someone who could be a floor general, something we've never seen from TD. I love the kid, he's got potential but I don't ever see him being that kind of player.

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    Funny how some people have to twist words & believe their own lies just to attemp to make a point.

    I never once "compared" TD to "Rondo". Must have the IQ level of a 4th grader if you failed to read between obvious lines.

    I used an example of two PG's who are both surrounded by elite stars. Nothing more, nothing less. Sorry if you lack & lacked the IQ to read between the lines & failed to see the difference.

    I made it known the TD23 is blessed to have two of the NBA's top 5 scores & two of the top 10 NBA talents.

    I made it known that Rondo would be no where near the the "type of PG" that he is today (and has been) without 3 future HOF players. Having C's such as Perkins & Shaq fill lanes & open up Rondo's options has also been a huge advantage.

    It's not hard to show "passing ability" & wrack up assist's in bunches when you have A) The greatest NBA 3 point shooter in Allen since Reggie freakin Miller. B) a future HOF player & top 5 offensive PF in KG & a franchise scorer in Pierce.

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    Sorry if you lack & lacked the IQ to read between the lines .
    The irony...

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    C- Mozgov (rookie)
    PF- Amare
    SF- Gallo
    SG- Fields (Rookie)
    PG- Rondo

    He could have fell flat on his face with that starting 5. No future HOF & Franchise player in Pierce. He's have a rookie SG. Wouldn't have a future HOF SF & top 5 3 point shooter in Allen. He'd be left with a hot & cold Gallo @ SF. He would have been stuck with the largest 5 hole in Mozgov & Turiaf (PF) @ the Center position instead of a true Center in Perkins & Shaq. All facts.

    He's one of the worst shooting PG's in the NBA & a horrid free throw shooter. His assis't per game would have went down in major ways with that starting unit.

    He wouldn't have been much better than Raymond Felton; if even better @ all. He's been blessed in BOSTON because of BOSTON's talents. What's the record of Boston without Perkins? Exactly. Below .500 right? Overrated is what Rondo has been made out to be.

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