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Thread: Some say TD23 doesn't have what it takes or the potential to become a starting PG...

  1. #1
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    Default Some say TD23 doesn't have what it takes or the potential to become a starting PG...

    I'll have to agree to disagree.

    First & foremost; I just feel it's a blessing that he's being developed under two great offensive PG minds in MDA as coach & Billups as a championship leading vet. Next year he'll be considered a 3rd year pro, who would have then gained the much needed playoff experience needed inorder to take the next step as an offensive leader from the PG position. He's pretty much a 1st year player this year. Raw & learning on the fly.

    I also love his defense, which is exactly what NY needs. He's averaging over 1.5 steals per game this year (as a backup!) This kid won ACC defensive awards & is known as FSU's best defensive Guard since Charlie Ward. He'll only continue to improve, but he already has the type of defensive ability that can slow down overall production of opposing PG's.

    The 76ers game & offensive flow was bad after CB went down, but Toney did come up clutch with 17 points, a huge 3 & big time free throws. It's a matter of time before he improves the pace & flow of the gm.

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    Superstar WrongIslander's Avatar
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    They're right. He's improving but he's basically an energy player who will win some games but not enough to lead this team and that's what we need.

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    17-2
    28-5
    11-6
    7-1
    16-2
    5-2
    16-2
    17-1
    5-4
    7-9
    20-11
    29-3
    17-4
    3-3

    Thats what TD23 has done during the 14 games CB4 has been back. NY went 6-8 during that time. TD has averaged 14.1 points & 3.9 assist's per game as a backup.

    I'm currious to see how many other backups have averaged better than that?

    As a starter; both his PPG & Assist's numbers are sure to rise. See for youself.

    Dallas: 18-8 L
    Memphis: 18-10 W
    Jazz: 20-6 W
    ATL: 10-7 W
    Cavs: 11-5 L
    Hornets: 24-5 W

    After Billups went down; NY went 4-2 under Douglas as a starter & blew out Utah, ATL & NOH by a combined 59 points.

    Douglas averaged a strong 18.5 points & 6.8 assist's per game as a starter during the 6 games Billups was out. Those numbers are scary good, considering the fact we had an entire offense that was trying to learn our offensive system or players around the system.

    He's not even @ his peak or in his prime yet. We could be dealing with a 21-8 per gm type of PG talent. His potential goes through the roof with Amre & Melo.

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    The jury is still out. Yes, he has the POTENTIAL but will he realize that potential? Time will tell.

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    17-2
    28-5
    11-6
    7-1
    16-2
    5-2
    16-2
    17-1
    5-4
    7-9
    20-11
    29-3
    17-4
    3-3

    Thats what TD23 has done during the 14 games CB4 has been back. NY went 6-8 during that time. TD has averaged 14.1 points & 3.9 assist's per game as a backup.

    I'm currious to see how many other backups have averaged better than that?

    As a starter; both his PPG & Assist's numbers are sure to rise. See for youself.

    Dallas: 18-8 L
    Memphis: 18-10 W
    Jazz: 20-6 W
    ATL: 10-7 W
    Cavs: 11-5 L
    Hornets: 24-5 W

    After Billups went down; NY went 4-2 under Douglas as a starter & blew out Utah, ATL & NOH by a combined 59 points.

    Douglas averaged a strong 18.5 points & 6.8 assist's per game as a starter during the 6 games Billups was out. Those numbers are scary good, considering the fact we had an entire offense that was trying to learn our offensive system or players around the system.

    He's not even @ his peak or in his prime yet. We could be dealing with a 21-8 per gm type of PG talent. His potential goes through the roof with Amre & Melo.
    Those numbers are fine, but what they don't show is his inability to get the offense moving at times. Making a pass that leads to a pass for an assist is just as important. A lot of times, TD brings the offense to a halt like we saw in the PHI game. He's also not recognizing or seeing the cuts good enough. He will learn but as of now he doen't have what it takes to be a starting PG on a regular basis.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Yea I can see TD as more of a SG than a combo guard. He's a short SG so I guess some thinks that naturally makes him a combo guard, but i think Monta is the quintessential combo guard in the league right now. When he's on the court, he's not really playing either position...he's just a guard. Sometimes you'll see him get the ball and initiate the offense, get into a rhythm, and finish the game with 11 assists with Curry out there as well...while also scoring. On other occasions you'll see him finish the game with 3-5 assists but 35+ points.

    I think Douglas, Eric Gordon, Ben Gordon, and Marcus Thornton are all in the same category. Small 2-guards who can use their athleticism to get buckets, but they're not gonna run your point effectively. TD is also the best defensive player in the bunch, let him focus on what he does.

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    Those #'s were very good during the 6 games as a starter.

    I agree, TD does struggle running a good offensive pace, flow to the game & overall offense @ times, but isn't that expected? He's only been in the league for two years. Pretty much a first year player (rookie) due to the fact that he pretty gained little playing time to no experience for most of last year.

    I've seen a lot more than just potential. I've seen real NBA ability. TD23 has been a very productive 2nd year player & turning into a top 5 steal of last year's draft.

    What happened against Philly was rare & wasn't "the norm" because if that were the case; MDA would want nothing to do with Douglas & would have Carter starting over Douglas while TD goes to waste on the bench. That was one of the worst performances we've ever seen with TD running the offense after Billups went down last game. Growing pains you know.

    Next year he'll be a 3rd year pro with playoff experience. He must improve, he will improve & he's just now coming into his own.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    He is coming into his own KFFQ, but the thing is "his own" is at SG. The transition from SG (which he played exclusively in college) to PG in the NBA is a difficult one. Just because he's the same size as PGs, and his coach wants him to play at PG, doesn't make him a PG. Too often you see small guys deemed "combo-guards" stay at the SG spot (E. Gordon, B. Gordon, Jason Terry lately, Barbosa, Marcus Thornton, etc.) while Ellis and Bayless seem to be more comfortable making the seamless transition between 1 and 2 on the court.

    Douglas doesn't show that. He can get the stats, but he doesn't look as comfortable when he's trying to run the offense. Put him in his comfort zone to optimize his talents, and that's at SG. You can't expect too many players to pull off what Westbrook did. The odds were heavily against him.

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    I'm not saying that he's ready to start right now or even next year. But after gaining playoff expericne this year + a full offseason of improving over the summer? He'll become a much different & improved player next year. He's still raw. He's only learning on the fly. Learning & being developed under both Mike D'Antoni & Chauncey Billups has became a dream come true for this kid. I cant think of a younger backup PG who's in a better position that Douglas himself.

    I've seen this kid develope since his FSU days & he still continues to improve at a rapid pace. Crazy talent man. After the exerience that he's gained this year, the playoff experience he's on the verge of gaining this season, after an offseason this summer, preseason, regular season & more playoff experience next year + another full offseason & training camp? Man... I think he'll be more than just READY to lead this offense from the PG position come 2012. He'll be a 4th year pro with 2 years of playoff experience by that time. 26-27 years young!

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFanFromQueens1985
    I'm not saying that he's ready to start right now or even next year. But after gaining playoff expericne this year + a full offseason of improving over the summer? He'll become a much different & improved player next year. He's still raw. He's only learning on the fly. Learning & being developed under both Mike D'Antoni & Chauncey Billups has became a dream come true for this kid. I cant think of a younger backup PG who's in a better position that Douglas himself.

    I've seen this kid develope since his FSU days & he still continues to improve at a rapid pace. Crazy talent man. After the exerience that he's gained this year, the playoff experience he's on the verge of gaining this season, after an offseason this summer, preseason, regular season & more playoff experience next year + another full offseason & training camp? Man... I think he'll be more than just READY to lead this offense from the PG position come 2012. He'll be a 4th year pro with 2 years of playoff experience by that time. 26-27 years young!
    I like your faith in him but I can't see that happening by 2012. The PG position is the hardest to grasp in the NBA, especially if it isn't your natural position. The way he looks whe he's asked to orchestrate the offense leads me to believe it will take longer than you think.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    I agree that he's developing, he needs playoff experience, and that he's crazy talented. I just don't agree that he's a PG or best suited to play PG in any capacity in the NBA. That doesn't mean he's not talented, it just means he's not best suited to run the point. Just like Brad Smith having success in wildcat formations doesn't mean he's best suited to be the backup QB.

    Coaching is all about putting players in position to have success, that's why Thornton, both Gordon's and Terry aren't asked to run the point.

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    I like him as a 6th man combo guard playing 25 minutes, but not as a full time starting PG.

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    He'll learn how to run an O. MDA was an NBA PG for a while & left the Italian league's back in 90 as the All-Time leading scorer & won a crap load of Euro Chips. Voted as the greatest Italian PG of All-Time. MDA will force him to learn. He's always screaming @ TD.

    Mike seen something very special in this kid as a potential PG. If this weren't the case? He wouldn't be getting PG reps. Billups & Carter would run the point with Fields & TD23 splitting time @ 2G. MDA isn't dumb.

    He was a combo guard with FSU (my team) but I seen him play every night. He's not an NBA 2G. He's more like 5'11-6'1 @ the very most.. He's not tall enough to get good looks over much taller SG's. He's also 180-183 soaking wet. Not strong enough/heavy enough to guard opposing SG's. They'll back him down all night long. Guys like Kobe & others would shoot over TD with open lookers for 4 quarters strong. As a PG? He's able to over-power alot of PG's. He's also NO WHERE NEAR the type of off the ball player that Fields has become.

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    KFFQ if what you suggest takes place (i.e teaching Douglas the position so that he can be a completed PG in a couple of years) This will mean that after applying all that effort in order to potentially turn him into a PG, in 2 years we'll have a 27 year old player who may resemble a PG or may have wasted 2 years trying to learn a position that he cannot play. This will result in Douglas at least remaining stagnant rather than progressing. Douglas appears to be well suited to D'Antoni's game as a combo guard. He can shoot and he's one of few players that consistently hustle on defence. For me he's not young enough to be labelled a project player. He's developing his strengths which are mainly shooting and defence and that is positive. As stated in a previous thread I think he'll turn out to be a really good 6th man (Jason Terry style) It's not a bad thing. If anything it means the Knicks have depth for the forseeable future.

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    But Knuckles, you even stated that coaching is all about putting his players in best possible position to enjoy success. I agree.

    Lets be honest; MDA knows the PG position & offensive aspects of the game just as much, if not more than 95% of other coaches in todays NBA.

    There's a reason why MDA has played TD @ the PG position. It's because he spots real PG talent, potential & ability. Toney makes plenty of mistakes as a learning talent, but it's great to see MDA harp, yell, scream, correct & teach TD every night. Thats a good thing. He cares about Douglas. In sports, it becomes a problem when the coach no longer cares enough to correct or teach.

    One thing is for sure; Douglas will have a TRUE TEST against a top 3 PG tonight in D-Will. I'm sure we can all agree with that.

    Last time TD23 went up against a top 3 PG (as a starter) was when NY blew out CP3 & the Hornets. TD23 passed that test with flying colors putting up 24 & 5. CP3 had a horrid game but TD's D was like white on rice type of pressure glue.

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