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Thread: The 'REAL" Reason We Didn't Win Game 2

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    Veteran KingofNy's Avatar
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    Default The 'REAL" Reason We Didn't Win Game 2

    Well guys after another disappointing loss we are left here looking for answers again and what can I say? The "real" reason we lost isn't because JJ fumbled the pass from Melo. We didn't lose again because the refs again gave the Celtics the call in the last 20 seconds. We also didn't lose this game because Stat and Billups were out. We lost this game because of Antoni. Here's an in-depth analysis of what Antoni did or actually failed to do:

    1. He failed to instruct Douglas to play his position in the 2-3 above the screen. Douglas' spot in the 2-3 should of been at the top corner of the Key. Douglas was mounted on the box in the paint falling behind every screen leaving Rondo to have a field day on us. I kept waiting and waiting for the adjustment to come and not only did it not come, Douglas started even playing further down the box getting lost behind all the big men. Anyone who has any basketball knowledge would of made this adjustment after Rondo's second wide open layup in the first quarter. Has Antoni ever heard of stopping the ballhandler? It didn't look like it and Antoni surely didn't make the adjustment.

    2. Play selection. Again, just like most games this season, Mike had our boys running the same exact play the entire game (High Pick and Roll leading to ISO). Sure the play occasionally works... The problem is every team in the league knows we run it all game and know exactly how to cover it. Melo went off today even though most of his shots were off-balanced while being hacked and triple-teamed yet we still couldn't pull away... Why you might ask? Because Antoni's ONE play he runs keeps everyone on the perimeter leaving NO off-ball movement leading to us chucking up a RECORD 22 forced shots and 5 air-balls. Just to give you a comparison, Boston had 3 forced shots...3.

    Knowing Melo was getting doubled the entire 4th quarter, Mike kept calling the same play to Melo and didn't ONE time send the open man cutting to the basket until the last damn play of the game in which JJ fumbled the ball. Maybe, just maybe if they tried it once or twice before they would of had a rapport and the play would of worked to slow down that double-team on Melo...But thankfully for us that wasn't Antoni's ace in the pocket at the end of the game...LOL give me a break!

    3. Mike has been terrible this series and this season on working the refs and our team is paying for it with LOSSES. There are such things as make-up calls and the way you get them is for your coach to point out the refs blown call. Mike didn't work the refs at all the last two games. It seems like every 10 minutes Doc Rivers is letting the refs know every call they screwed up. What does Mike do? He crosses his arms and folds his lip up and does NOTHING. Working the Refs is part of basketball, DO YOUR F*CKING JOB MIKE OR GET THE F*CK OUT OF HERE!

    4. Lack of coaching... Walker needed to be "coached" and calmed down immediately after he gave up Melo's three pointer by blatently pushing a Celtic in the back as the shot was already in the air on the way through the hoop. Then on his next defensive assignment he didn't fight around the screen and the Celtics easily scored. Then for the next 5 minutes he had 3 turnovers, an air-ball and was responsible for 7 Celtics points. Then finally Mike calls a timeout and the camera cuts to him and he walks right by Walker and didn't say a word. This coach is beyond repair and needs to go. All you guys that can't see this need to wake up and see how bad our coach really is. If Melo wasn't on we would of been blown out by 30.

    Honestly, this team could play better than they're playing now without a coach and that's pretty damn sad. At least then they would move around without the ball and be unpredictable. So even though the Refs again blew the last second call and JJ fumbled the ball and our guys made a few mistakes it all boils down to our coach and his terrible attempt at coaching. If Melo can own guys with no playcalling and triple teams, imagine what he could do on this squad with a real coach and real playcalling/driving to the basket? Please God give us a real coach next year, we'll be unstoppable!

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    Member The Garden '95's Avatar
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    agree with everything you said but mike is going to stay for a while and these close games are strengthening his case to give him another chance,we should hope we get blown out by 50 for the rest of these games so that maybe walsh CONSIDERS making a move.

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    Originally Posted by The Garden '95
    agree with everything you said but mike is going to stay for a while and these close games are strengthening his case to give him another chance,we should hope we get blown out by 50 for the rest of these games so that maybe walsh CONSIDERS making a move.

    I think final say in this matter isn't Donnie's as he still hasn't heard any positive news in regards to his contract being picked up. Dolan has the potential to allow this team to be great but will ultimately screw it up somehow.

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    Member JeffVanGundyPLEASE!'s Avatar
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    Default Its A Moral Victory...but Moral Victories Dont Win Games

    douglas was scared to foul rondo because he already picked up two fouls early in the first then picked up 4 in the third it was a blown assignment on the help defense...and anyone that has watched the knicks all season knows that douglas rarely penetrates into the paint he goes east to west most of the time floundering on the perimeter to find the primary scorer and then scurries away either to the wing or the corner

    I say look at this game objectively, was MDA out coached in the closing seconds of this game once again yes, however he also made use of what he had left which wasn't much so at least give him credit for keeping it close where it looked like we were getting blown out and were completely done when the Celtics exploded for 13 in the 3rd and kept the team composure, he didn't let it get out of hand it also didn't hurt that Melo put this team on his back but again you are correct in saying that MDA players showed poor lack of execution down the stretch.

    All this team need which MDA discussed during his interview in a game one press conference is that this team needs to remain composed and execute down the stretch in the 4th quater order to win the game that the advantage that Boston has that's how they are winning these games other than that i feel overall we are the better teram in this series and MDA is proving it just too many brain lapses when the game is on the line

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    Veteran KingofNy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JeffVanGundyPLEASE!
    douglas was scared to foul rondo because he already picked up two fouls early in the first then picked up 4 in the third it was a blown assignment on the help defense...and anyone that has watched the knicks all season knows that douglas rarely penetrates into the paint he goes east to west most of the time floundering on the perimeter to find the primary scorer and then scurries away either to the wing or the corner

    I say look at this game objectively, was MDA out coached in the closing seconds of this game once again yes, however he also made use of what he had left which wasn't much so at least give him credit for keeping it close where it looked like we were getting blown out and were completely done when the Celtics exploded for 13 in the 3rd and kept the team composure, he didn't let it get out of hand it also didn't hurt that Melo put this team on his back but again you are correct in saying that MDA players showed poor lack of execution down the stretch.

    All this team need which MDA discussed during his interview in a game one press conference is that this team needs to remain composed and execute down the stretch in the 4th quater order to win the game that the advantage that Boston has that's how they are winning these games other than that i feel overall we are the better teram in this series and MDA is proving it just too many brain lapses when the game is on the line
    Douglas only had one foul and he was letting Rondo lay the ball up all over him. Most of Douglas' fouls came from being stupid like hacking guys at halfcourt for no damn reason...lol It's not Douglas' fault, it's Antoni's for not correcting the problems. Billups was doing a better job coaching than Antoni was.

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    Member JeffVanGundyPLEASE!'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingofNy
    Douglas only had one foul and he was letting Rondo lay the ball up all over him. Most of Douglas' fouls came from being stupid like hacking guys at half court for no damn reason...lol It's not Douglas' fault, it's Antoni's for not correcting the problems. Billups was doing a better job coaching than Antoni was.
    Douglas had two fouls in the first that's why he sat out most of the quarter and some second quarter and AC was subbed in and the offense looked out of sync , that's why Rondo went at him hard like that instead of facilitating like he normally does, you could see that he didn't want to foul Rondo because he knew he was greatly needed tonight with billups being out. he picked up his third when Dantoni told him to foul rondo which was dumb i didn't understand that one

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JeffVanGundyPLEASE!
    douglas was scared to foul rondo because he already picked up two fouls early in the first then picked up 4 in the third it was a blown assignment on the help defense...and anyone that has watched the knicks all season knows that douglas rarely penetrates into the paint he goes east to west most of the time floundering on the perimeter to find the primary scorer and then scurries away either to the wing or the corner
    This has got to be addressed!! In the Dougals coming out party thread I said that Antoni will have to call more plays with Douglas at the point since he virtually kills ball movement. I never saw that adjustment. Perhaps it was made when Melo was bringing the ball up court on a few possessions but who knows. Either way, you've coached this kid a long time now so you should know his limitations and at least make it easier on him Mr Antoni.

    Originally Posted by JeffVanGundyPLEASE!
    I say look at this game objectively, was MDA out coached in the closing seconds of this game once again yes, however he also made use of what he had left which wasn't much so at least give him credit for keeping it close where it looked like we were getting blown out and were completely done
    Sorry, but all that credit goes to Melo. Melo kept it close by rebounding, scoring and making good passes. What did Antoni really do besides make some questionable subs and fail to utilize certain players on key plays?

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    Member JeffVanGundyPLEASE!'s Avatar
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    Sorry, but all that credit goes to Melo. Melo kept it close by rebounding, scoring and making good passes. What did Antoni really do besides make some questionable subs and fail to utilize certain players on key plays?
    I am generally not a fan of MDA but i have to give him credit it was Melo and 4 other guys out there and it was still a close game throughout ...im not going to go out on a limb and discredit him for two or three plays when i thought we should be getting blown out with no amare or no billups ..at the end of the day he was still out coached in crunch time and exposed by Doc Rivers..however his defensive schemes have been impressive these pass two games and has kept us in it..that has somewhat changed my opinion of him from thinking he is all offense and no defense

    yes were in positions to ultimately lose this game but we were put in very good positions to give us a chance to win this game as well... as we all know it takes proper execution for his plays to work. i feel this loss is 70 percent on JJ.. (he is is 6'11 get garnet in the air pump fake your at basket draw a foul, dribble drive he looked scared, he wanted no parts of that ball and that was a beautiful feed from melo, drawn up by the coach mind you, we all knew melo was gonna get doubled and tripled teamed to take the shot and what did he do he would of rather dumped it off to billy walker. The look on his face he wanted no parts of that) and 30 percent on the coach at least we were in the position to win the game its on the PLAYERS to execute.

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    Originally Posted by The Garden '95
    agree with everything you said but mike is going to stay for a while and these close games are strengthening his case to give him another chance,we should hope we get blown out by 50 for the rest of these games so that maybe walsh CONSIDERS making a move.
    Bull**** get blown out by 50. Boston had home court and they squeaked away with two wins against our depleted team that had no Amare and Billups. If the refs didn't miss calls or make horrendous calls at the end of game 1 we win that game and WE HEAD BACK TO MSG UP 2-0!

    We now go back to the Garden down 0-2 knowing that we can hang with the C's WITHOUT OUR STARS, and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the players know that we can beat these bastards up in Boston. If I'm Boston, I'm worried about game 5 in Boston because the Knicks are taking game 3 and game 4 in NYK if Amare and Billups play.

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    Veteran KingofNy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Garden '95
    agree with everything you said but mike is going to stay for a while and these close games are strengthening his case to give him another chance,we should hope we get blown out by 50 for the rest of these games so that maybe walsh CONSIDERS making a move.
    Thanks man... It's hard to root for our guys to get blown out by 50 but at this point I think I'd give up this season in a heartbeat to know for sure Antoni would be gone after the season.

    I think that Dolan is planning on getting rid of Antoni and Walsh this offseason. They're a package deal, if one's gone, the others going to follow closely behind. Why you might ask? Because they were both against pickup up Carmelo... Dolan stepped in and told them it had to be done and I think Donnie just wants out because his decision power was taken from him.

    I also think Antoni is just hoping to have his guys play well enough for some other idiotic team to hire him. He's a horrible coach though and we'll be 100 times better without him.
    Last edited by KingofNy; Apr 20, 2011 at 00:04.

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    Originally Posted by KingofNy
    Well guys after another disappointing loss we are left here looking for answers again and what can I say? The "real" reason we lost isn't because JJ fumbled the pass from Melo. We didn't lose again because the refs again gave the Celtics the call in the last 20 seconds. We also didn't lose this game because Stat and Billups were out. We lost this game because of Antoni. Here's an in-depth analysis of what Antoni did or actually failed to do:

    1. He failed to instruct Douglas to play his position in the 2-3 above the screen. Douglas' spot in the 2-3 should of been at the top corner of the Key. Douglas was mounted on the box in the paint falling behind every screen leaving Rondo to have a field day on us. I kept waiting and waiting for the adjustment to come and not only did it not come, Douglas started even playing further down the box getting lost behind all the big men. Anyone who has any basketball knowledge would of made this adjustment after Rondo's second wide open layup in the first quarter. Has Antoni ever heard of stopping the ballhandler? It didn't look like it and Antoni surely didn't make the adjustment.

    2. Play selection. Again, just like most games this season, Mike had our boys running the same exact play the entire game (High Pick and Roll leading to ISO). Sure the play occasionally works... The problem is every team in the league knows we run it all game and know exactly how to cover it. Melo went off today even though most of his shots were off-balanced while being hacked and triple-teamed yet we still couldn't pull away... Why you might ask? Because Antoni's ONE play he runs keeps everyone on the perimeter leaving NO off-ball movement leading to us chucking up a RECORD 22 forced shots and 5 air-balls. Just to give you a comparison, Boston had 3 forced shots...3.

    Knowing Melo was getting doubled the entire 4th quarter, Mike kept calling the same play to Melo and didn't ONE time send the open man cutting to the basket until the last damn play of the game in which JJ fumbled the ball. Maybe, just maybe if they tried it once or twice before they would of had a rapport and the play would of worked to slow down that double-team on Melo...But thankfully for us that wasn't Antoni's ace in the pocket at the end of the game...LOL give me a break!

    3. Mike has been terrible this series and this season on working the refs and our team is paying for it with LOSSES. There are such things as make-up calls and the way you get them is for your coach to point out the refs blown call. Mike didn't work the refs at all the last two games. It seems like every 10 minutes Doc Rivers is letting the refs know every call they screwed up. What does Mike do? He crosses his arms and folds his lip up and does NOTHING. Working the Refs is part of basketball, DO YOUR F*CKING JOB MIKE OR GET THE F*CK OUT OF HERE!

    4. Lack of coaching... Walker needed to be "coached" and calmed down immediately after he gave up Melo's three pointer by blatently pushing a Celtic in the back as the shot was already in the air on the way through the hoop. Then on his next defensive assignment he didn't fight around the screen and the Celtics easily scored. Then for the next 5 minutes he had 3 turnovers, an air-ball and was responsible for 7 Celtics points. Then finally Mike calls a timeout and the camera cuts to him and he walks right by Walker and didn't say a word. This coach is beyond repair and needs to go. All you guys that can't see this need to wake up and see how bad our coach really is. If Melo wasn't on we would of been blown out by 30.

    Honestly, this team could play better than they're playing now without a coach and that's pretty damn sad. At least then they would move around without the ball and be unpredictable. So even though the Refs again blew the last second call and JJ fumbled the ball and our guys made a few mistakes it all boils down to our coach and his terrible attempt at coaching. If Melo can own guys with no playcalling and triple teams, imagine what he could do on this squad with a real coach and real playcalling/driving to the basket? Please God give us a real coach next year, we'll be unstoppable!

    I agree 100%. You couldn't have put it any better. Beat me to the punch.

    Even after all of that, we still could have had a game winning play and gotten open for it. Inbound the ball to JJ back to Rog, Melo decoys this one as the look would be for either TD or Shawne Wil. JJ dives to the box to set a screen on (Let's say it's TDs guy for sake of Shawne having a bigger body and being the 2nd screen man on the other box). TD curls around JJ then sprints to the opposite corner for the 3 while his man chases around 2 screens on the baseline or if he defender is with him catch it, with his man closing out, take a one dribble pull and wet that **** for the GWinner. I'm upset but still looking forward to the future with this squad. Anything that happens in the playoffs is icing but we need to at least win the next 2 at home. Gotta come out gunning and not let up.

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    Whats up with Rautins, is he that bad that he can't even come off the bench? Or is the coach burying him on the bench because he doesn't fit his system. He can ruin guys carrears like this.

    JJ ain't sh!t, after the season please get rid of this underachiever ASAP. Damn near every time the ball touches his hands he treats it like a hot potato and fumbles it away. He's just an extra tall dude with shotty defense, and his offense is close to non exisistant. I'm still amazed he gave us 10 points in the game. We badly need a big in the post. A young tall guy that can run and clog up the middle, no need to be a scorer, just someone to grab boards and create differcult shots down low for the opposition, that should be easy to find in the up coming draft. PG's comes a dime a dozen...the Knicks only need a guy that can get the ball to Stat and/or Melo sweet spots, any scoring would be a plus but IMO is not really needed. Big men are a neccesity in the playoffs.

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    Originally Posted by Real NY Baller
    Whats up with Rautins, is he that bad that he can't even come off the bench? Or is the coach burying him on the bench because he doesn't fit his system. He can ruin guys carrears like this.

    JJ ain't sh!t, after the season please get rid of this underachiever ASAP. Damn near every time the ball touches his hands he treats it like a hot potato and fumbles it away. He's just an extra tall dude with shotty defense, and his offense is close to non exisistant. I'm still amazed he gave us 10 points in the game. We badly need a big in the post. A young tall guy that can run and clog up the middle, no need to be a scorer, just someone to grab boards and create differcult shots down low for the opposition, that should be easy to find in the up coming draft. PG's comes a dime a dozen...the Knicks only need a guy that can get the ball to Stat and/or Melo sweet spots, any scoring would be a plus but IMO is not really needed. Big men are a neccesity in the playoffs.
    He's injured and out for the playoffs.

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