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Thread: This Is Why We Need A New Coach.

  1. #46
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    But what that means for D’Antoni, who has one year left on his contract, is unclear after neither Carmelo Anthony nor Stoudemire gave him an endorsement following the loss.
    Anthony was particularly lukewarm, and did not mention D’Antoni by name.
    “It’s a long summer,” Anthony said when asked if he wanted D’Antoni back. “As far as the players go on the team or coach situation, I’m pretty sure the front office will handle it to the best of their ability. They have one of the greatest front offices in the NBA, so they will do their job. I’ll let them handle that.”
    Anthony went on to say that he, Stoudemire and Chauncey Billups will meet with owner James Dolan and Walsh about making the Knicks “not just a playoff team but a championship-caliber team.” Anthony did not mention D’Antoni as part of the summit.
    Since arriving, Anthony has talked periodically about his big adjustment to D’Antoni’s system and questioned the coach’s defensive scheme after a loss in Indiana. He is represented by the super agency CAA, which also handles Kentucky coach John Calipari and superstar point guard Chris Paul. The Knicks did not plan to make Walsh or D’Antoni available to the media today, when the team convenes for exit meeting, as is customary.
    Asked about D’Antoni’s return, Stoudemire, who supported the coach all season, surprisingly evaded the issue, only saying he’s been “great my whole career.” However, a source familiar with Stoudemire’s thinking said Stoudemire supports D’Antoni and would do any lobbying privately.
    LOL.

    Told you they had more cloute than D'Antoni.

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    Veteran AmareForPresident's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red




    LOL.

    Told you they had more cloute than D'Antoni.

  3. #48
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    More like...

    Melo: (to Walsh & Dolan) Yo, we've got to be a championship-caliber team asap, and that takes leadership and defense. Feel me?

    Amare: I agree, times-a-wastin'

    Walsh & Dolan: So what's that mean for D'Antoni?

    Melo: I said we want to be a championship team asap. Do the math.

    Amare: I'm with whatever you guys decide.

    Walsh & Dolan: Then its decided. Call Isaiah (just kidding)

  4. #49
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    i obviously want defense...but we'll still need a lot of offense in our system...its hard to dodge that having amare and melo...2 guys pretty much solely known for their offense

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    Here is my problem with how D'ant coached during this series. And it not x and o's or philosophy. Its how after the officials stole game one from us, he said nothing about it, setting an ***raping of the Knicks by the zebras throughout the entire series. I know everyone is going to say " you can't leave it up to the officials" and I agree, but "C'mon Man!!!" My favorite in yesterday's game was the defensive 3 second call with only TWO seconds off the shot clock. Classic. The nail in the coffin was the offensive foul call(sound familiar game 1???) with 3:30 left in the game with the Knicks only down by 5. I'm not sure who drove the ball and shot made the layup, but not only was a offensive foul called the hoop was waived away as well. Celtics score on the ensuing possession and that my friends is at least a four if not five point swing thanks to the zebras. I remember Chauncey making the and one sign, then grabbing both sides of his head in disbelief.

    After that robbing in game one, D'ant should have BLASTED the zebras in the post-game. Started something like:"I know I'm gonna get fined for this BUT....." Championship level coaches play the "game within the game." You think if Kobe was driving to the hoop for a game winner and picked up an offensive foul Phil isn't in the postgame conference crying foul himself??? Damn the fine, the zebras set the tone in game one that all the call were going to go Boston's way, and D'ant did nothing to stem the tide. NOTHING. Those Knicks fans here old enough to remember Pat Riley coaching the KNICKS/HEAT know what I'm talking about. Riles sent the goon squad to set off that fight against a superior KNICKS team and beat us in seven games because our whole team was suspended. Championship level coaches use everything at thier disposal to win including the rulebook.

    I am not fully on the "fire D'ant" bandwagon because he only has one year left on his contract. I think he deserves one year with a built team to see he can do with it. Same results next year, just don't renew him. The asterisk on this is if Phil Jackson leaves the Lakers and wants to give his KNICKS a shot. Otherwise let D'ant finish his term and if he advances the team then we jump off that bridge when we get to it.

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    (forum newb here)

    I love Mike D, but he's served his purpose already. Three years ago, Donnie Walsh knew he'd have to make a lot of moves, and the guys he had were damn near unmovable. He needed to pump up the value of these guys, and that's why he chose Mike D over Thibs or Marc Jackson or anyone else. Mike D's system pumps up numbers and makes individuals look better.

    Now that NY has a solid foundation in Amare and Melo, along with a bunch of cap space (under the current CBA), there's no need to pump up value. There aren't any contracts left to pump up. It's FA time, and Amare & Melo are the attractions.

    I loved what D'Antoni did in PHX, and appreciate him for the hell he put up with for the past 2 years in NY. It might not be fair because he never had a stable roster to coach. But I'm not really convinced that he can work with the core we have here.

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    I am not fully on the "fire D'ant" bandwagon because he only has one year left on his contract. I think he deserves one year with a built team to see he can do with it.
    Totally agree. It makes no sense to do it now, considering that the season will probably be shortened. But next year will probably be his last, IMO

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    The play was Shawn Williams driving on a fast break and Pierce stepping into the lane when Williams was airborne....Being at the garden we went from incredible jubuliation to immediate yelling and cursing. On the replay it looked horrible. At that point Dantonio should have went off on the REF even if meant giving up a point for the techical.

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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    The play was Shawn Williams driving on a fast break and Pierce stepping into the lane when Williams was airborne....Being at the garden we went from incredible jubuliation to immediate yelling and cursing. On the replay it looked horrible. At that point Dantonio should have went off on the REF even if meant giving up a point for the techical.
    Thanks for filling in the gaps. I was too pissed jumped around the house spitting fire to see who picked up the foul. Me, I would have gotten tossed during the bogus 3 second call. What do you have to lose at that point??? Your down by double-digits and in danger of being swept at home??? Herb could have finished coaching the game... gotta shake it up sometimes...

  10. #55
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Marek
    (forum newb here)

    I love Mike D, but he's served his purpose already. Three years ago, Donnie Walsh knew he'd have to make a lot of moves, and the guys he had were damn near unmovable. He needed to pump up the value of these guys, and that's why he chose Mike D over Thibs or Marc Jackson or anyone else. Mike D's system pumps up numbers and makes individuals look better.

    Now that NY has a solid foundation in Amare and Melo, along with a bunch of cap space (under the current CBA), there's no need to pump up value. There aren't any contracts left to pump up. It's FA time, and Amare & Melo are the attractions.

    I loved what D'Antoni did in PHX, and appreciate him for the hell he put up with for the past 2 years in NY. It might not be fair because he never had a stable roster to coach. But I'm not really convinced that he can work with the core we have here.
    Very thoughtful post from a first timer here, welcome.

    I just think, if we're gonna get rid of MDA why wait until next season? Wouldn't it be better to bring in a new coach now so the coach, players etc all have more time to gel together? That's what I think.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hayato
    i obviously want defense...but we'll still need a lot of offense in our system...its hard to dodge that having amare and melo...2 guys pretty much solely known for their offense
    you win with defense, offense can be self explanatory, you adjust to a teams defense...apparently this team has a hard part of sticking to fundamentals which is playing defense, sticking to your man and not constantly switching, boxing out for rebounds and attacking the basket........

    Amare and Melo can take over and as long as we have guys who can do the little things and hit open shots, we can win 50 games but we need a foundations of defense....NOT OFFENSE...which means Mike D gets the boot

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    Defense is what we should focus on, we have offense so thats not a problem...Stat and Melo will figure that part out. Good solid defense will open your offense up anyway...

    The fast pace of D'ant's offense and shooting all those treys created long rebounds and we barely had the size to get the short ones. To run the Man to Man D our coach was using takes great stamina and teamwork...we lacked both, and not just because of gelling issues, exhaustion was clearly visible on the faces of the players. The "D" needs the upgrade...there was too much bad positioning, trap timings were off, doubles were weak, pick up awareness weaker. Get a new coach or get our current one to work with an assistant.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Why can't we do what I and others have proposed? Which would be to keep MDA for the offense and have Donnie make him take on an assistant who can organize the defense. This would satisfy everybody, no?

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    You obviously DIDN'T read the op.

    While you intimate I or anyone is "Blaming" D'Antoni for our experiences, you fail to acknowledge the assertion that he isn't what we need going forward.

    That further investment in him bares too much risk. You have an answer and explanaton for everything, as I pointed out in the op.

    Again, even SUCCESSFUL coaches get released and or fired at times. The decisions can all be argued and there is a rebuttle for every point you make.

    We have injuries, that had nothing to do with late game decisions.

    We had roster turnover, that had nothing to do with DNP'ing for the sole purpose of proving a point.

    Going forward, the players NEEDED to be acquired, that make up for certain deficiencies are NOT available, stop dreaming.

    Going forward the decisions that need to be made to take us to the next level cannot be relied upon to be made by Mike D'Antoni.

    What are the odds of acquiring a Defender that will take the Knicks frm 28th to top 10 or top 15? Slim to none. And that's partially based on what D'Antoni has demonstrated and the players HE values throughout his career.

    Get it? His entire career suggests the concept of performing his grand scheme of offense AND acquiring the proper two way players to excel at defense, given his pedigree and our cap situation is just a concept. In practice its not possible.

    Nothing you can mention can counter that point. Using short sighted logic to "explain" "who's to blame for the Knicks woes" can never trump what has been proven over a nine year body of work.

    Mike may be thought of as an offensive genius, but history has proven that such an approach limits the availability and
    usage of defensive players needed to excel further.

    To think that the impossible is possible (that being we acquire offensively gifted as well as defensively adept players which in turn are usually allstars) without having a coach that actually advances DEFENSIVE PROWESS (not offensive) which Mike has proven he doesnt't

    is an excersize in futility. Its ignorant of the facts and the risks involved. Not your excuses as to why, but based on facts.

    A coach and a leader have greater chance of changing the defensive culture and outcome over assuming Mike can do so after what we've witnessed. He's just not he right fit.




    See above.

    While you're coming up with excuses and explanations, try and figure out why is there even a need to do so.

    Going forward to expect a difference that has that much of an impact is ludicrous. He has never been above 15th in defense, and that was with Joe Johnson, Barbosa, The Matrix, Steve Nash, Amare, Diaw and more!

    Do you really think we will any semblance of that roster? Do you think that 15th will get us over that hump? After all the player personnel issues we've had which I don't see you mentioning, do you really want to take that risk?




    Important factors that impinge on MDA's ability...

    I know you are smart enough to see the error in this statement.

    And to intimate that poor results were against Boston in this series only is very ignorant. If you want us to see you as objective, then please don't use selective memory, and consider the entire story.

    Anyway, I'm sure you'll support whoever we bring in. Hopefully it won't be more "wait til' next year" fight songs.
    What's wrong w analyzing what's happening on court and weighting that more heavily than the seeming impact a coach has?

    In my opinion, and this will always be the case, the players you have on your team and how they execute will allways be more impactful then the few ways a coach effects a game.

    "But a coaches substitutions and end game management can make or break a team!!"

    No ****

    But when a coach, such as ours, has to constantly grab at straws because most of his options suck and he has no flexibility that makes things more difficult.

    We've seen it. He tries Mason who stinks it up then has to come out. He then goes back to Fields who proceeds to stink it up. Or he goes to Carter for a stretch and gets nothing from him then has to go back to TD or try Melo at the point. How can you guys criticize his subs when the decisions are so fuked 6 different ways?? Better players who can execute make it easier on a coach.

    It's like when Monty Williams says "Chris Paul erases alot of my mistakes"..

    He gets it.

    Most of these coaches in the NBA do too. The point being that the combo of players you have to go into battle w will make or break you; will make you look like you know what your doing, or make you look like a "second rate" coach..

    You guys choose to look at a few in game decisions and overall coaching philosophy and blindly bandy about the farse that we can't win a title because of said percieved coaching flaws.

    I choose to look at the myriad of other more relevant and plausible factors that impact a game, as well as the coach, ie things like the players you have, how they're playing/executing, overall chemistry, matchups etc.

    I'm also of the mind that great players allow a coach to have more flexibility, thus covering up many flaws and mistakes they all inevitably make, as Coach Williams candidly admitted.

    That's the difference between you and me. I can acknowledge the coach's flaws while shining a bright light on the other more pressing, pertinent variables in the game equation..

    You simply call for the coaches head while glossing over the surface re: all of the things that affect him. <<<<And this is not a flawed statement as you tried to assert.

    If a coach can be made to look better by a great player or a collection of really good players, as in the case w the Celts, then the opposite applies -- coach's flaws are magnified, margin for error becomes razor slim and the overall philosophy the coach has looks like it's broken or just unworkable. This is the reality for a team devoid of talent, hurt by injuries, or lacking chemistry whether you like it or not.

    This is what MDA was impacted by and left having to make lemonade out of -- and guess what... we made into the playoffs anyway. We were limping and broken as team, but we competed hard. I feel a sense of pride as Knick fan because of that and MDA deserves some credit for it..

    Look, I see the inconsistency on the defensive end and I've proposed solutions (a defensive minded assistant, utilizing the 10 man rotation) in numerous posts. You say, "fire this coach". So simplistic, such a panacea. I won't call you ignorant as you have, but are these not viable solutions to key problems we have as a team?? Would it not make more sense to make a few sensible adjustments rather than make a coaching change, when Amare and Melo came here to play w this coach.. when the team was constructed (w the exception of Billups) in order to execute MDA's system.

    The major factors that you pay lip service to, but really gloss over are what's holding this team back. Coaches come secondary to these issues breh..


    Doc Rivers is not a great coach.

    Phil Jackson is not a great coach.

    Red Aurbach is not a great coach.

    Mike D'Antonio is not a great coach.

    JVG is not a great coach.

    Pat Riley is not a great Coach.

    George Karl is not a great coach.

    Scott Skiles is not a great coach.

    Tom Thibadeau is not a great coach.

    Monty Williams is not a great coach.

    There are no great coaches IMO Red, only great players.

    Every coach you consider to be better than his counterparts because of success in the playoffs had or has a decided advantage in the area of player personnel.

    That's the difference..

    Stop placing so much emphasis on what MDA does or doesn't do when so much of what makes or breaks him is dependant on factors outside of the tangible things he brings to a team..

    Let MDA get Chris Paul, a legit once in a generation talent, and see how much better he looks. Right now he has a deficient, flawed team. And yes, when your best player, Ala Steve Nash, doesn't play defense and you have to play him because of what he brings on the offensive end.. your screwed. Another factor you choose to scratch the surface of understanding on.

    Also, some of having a great team is a crap shoot w re: to getting great players; drafting a Pippen, or Duncan, or a Stockton, or a Paul - legit 2 way players that can contribute to great success for a coach and team overall. Sometimes you just have to be lucky.

    We could use some luck..

    MDA is fine for us as long as he shows he can correct the things he's been stubborn about in the past ~ see above. The rest, as w all coaches, can and will be mitigated by talent and the execution by said talent of the system on both ends.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Apr 25, 2011 at 21:01.

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    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    MDA didn't make himself look too good with his public dissing of Rajon Rondo in the press. What kind of head coach is as classless as to diss a player like Rondo during a playoff series when he's absolutely OWNING you on the court? Was this necessary?:

    "I'd like to see him play in Minnesota and see how he does," D'Antoni said. "Everybody is tied together and they have three Hall-of-Famers out there. Rondo is a very good basketball player — really good. But if you look at their team and you have to say, 'What can we take away? What do we have to give them and play the odds?' You have to give him his shot and you have to try to close up the middle on him and that's kind of how we did it. We think that's the best way to go."


    It wasn't the right way to go in this series. The fifth-year veteran dominated, averaging 18.8 points, 11 assists and five rebounds per game while controlling the action on a nightly basis.
    Real genius strategy, it was obviously very effective... for the Celtics that is. It takes an extremely smug & arrogant person to have no problem dissing his colleagues publically in the media. His "I don't play bad rookies, only good rookies" comment referring to his own player Jordan Hill last year was just another example of what I'm talking about. MDA hates when he's questioned publically about his coaching decisions & philosophy but has no qualms about criticizing players & downgrading their talent. I honestly don't understand why some people have him in such high regard around here, he has done nothing as head coach of the Knicks in his tenure to deserve such loyalty or admiration IMHO. & I say this as a person who had high hopes for him when he was hired. But he has steadily lost all of my faith in his ability to coach this franchise to a championship someday & I have grown to have a large distaste for some of the decisions he makes & his passive aggressive tendencies.

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