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Thread: This Is Why We Need A New Coach.

  1. #16
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    When Mike D left, who ran the team in Phoenix? Steve Nash. When Mike D was there who ran the team in Phoenix? Steve Nash.

    Mike D is the type of coach that needs great players to speak for him. He can't command enough respect to the point were players will do whatever he asks and HUSTLE to accomplish it. Maybe guys don't hustle on this team, ever, because Mike D has no ability to motivate his players.

    This is like a bad boss that can't get his employees on the same page as him. Eventually the employees will start working half-ass and thats the story of Mike D as the Knicks coach.

    "Energy"
    Yep.

    D'Antoni has good concepts that work to a certain extent and may not be as effective in practical applications, and again he isn't to blame for everything.

    But when I mention a team needing fight, consistency, and a specific game plan to attack an enemies weaknesses, i don't feel confident with him.

    Our team isn't as close as we'd like to think. Sure the progress from a roster stand point is observed. But where is the ability to "showcase" our strengths? I see a system that has some strengths that are independent for what our vision should be.

    Instead if leading the league in offense, or threes, we should want to be a competitive defensive team who features two go to guys. So far I don't see the fluidity on offense and the consistency on d we need.

    Again, all the decisions we still need to make, i.e.... resign Billups and other players going forward, i think if we keep making these all important decisions based on D'Antoni's model, it will be a mistake. As he has always done, we will come up short, and nobody wants that.

    thats what history suggests.

  2. #17

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    He should go immediately that we are out of the playoffs. He`s hopeless and we will never compete at the top level with him.

    Why did he go to Roger Mason in game three when Toney Douglas had to sit down with his fouls in the second quarter? He should have gone with Carter. Every time Carter has come on he has given us a lift, solid defence and good offence. Roger Mason has done nothing.

    D`Antoni always makes terrible decisions, and that is just one reason why he has to go. There are far too many other reasons why he should go for me to list here otherwise I`ll still be typing this come next years playoffs.

  3. #18
    Member JoHnNyBoXeR's Avatar
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    I agree .. Although, Mike DOES deserve another season of coaching.. it doesn't have to be with us.. I dont think he's a ghood fit for the type of team we now have.. Doc Rivers has owned him all season and he has shown his inadequency to run plays out of the half-court offense.. Im with you Red.. If we have a serious shot to win it all next year Mike has gotta go! .. we need some1 like the Blazers coach who can get a bunch of average to above average players to be a good team and play team defense and play with heart.. A guy like that with Carmelo and Amar'e would win multiple titles.. we just need to find that guy

  4. #19
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    Originally Posted by Scipio
    He should go immediately that we are out of the playoffs. He`s hopeless and we will never compete at the top level with him.

    Why did he go to Roger Mason in game three when Toney Douglas had to sit down with his fouls in the second quarter? He should have gone with Carter. Every time Carter has come on he has given us a lift, solid defence and good offence. Roger Mason has done nothing.

    D`Antoni always makes terrible decisions, and that is just one reason why he has to go. There are far too many other reasons why he should go for me to list here otherwise I`ll still be typing this come next years playoffs.
    Do you see that question right there...

    I say why should you have to even ask that at this point?

    The Answer is:

    Because D'Antoni didn't set a rotation by now, which should of included a depth chart- and that would have had Carter the back-up PG and TD the back-up SG. Early.

    But this coach has different ideas of what's needed.

    And as far as Mason here was the mistake that we mentioned early:

    Had Mike realized he was a useful asset when we got him, had Mike realized players are MORE comfortable knowing their role and what to expect, he would have realized this is a VET who should be valued over a project.

    Instead he ignored and sat him, f*cking with his confidence as he does, then when he needed him he was reduced to a ROLE player who was rusty and hesitant in the offense (something over valued by Mike).

    Clear Example!

    Originally Posted by JoHnNyBoXeR
    I agree .. Although, Mike DOES deserve another season of coaching.. it doesn't have to be with us.. I dont think he's a ghood fit for the type of team we now have.. Doc Rivers has owned him all season and he has shown his inadequency to run plays out of the half-court offense.. Im with you Red.. If we have a serious shot to win it all next year Mike has gotta go! .. we need some1 like the Blazers coach who can get a bunch of average to above average players to be a good team and play team defense and play with heart.. A guy like that with Carmelo and Amar'e would win multiple titles.. we just need to find that guy
    Doc Rivers has out-coached many. But Mike was more responsible for the discombobulation and poor self-detrimental decisions made, some from a lack of planning and foresight.

    And some would say "if we had won" my tune would be different.

    I say check what i was saying when we were winning 116 to 108. I'll take a W, but I know thats not the way I would have liked it.

    All those high scoring, three point bonanzas we witnessed, this is what it gets you. All those who said where's the D? That rank #2 and Toney Scoring 30 blah blah... we knew that meant NOTHING in the grand scheme of things.

    If we want to improve and make a difference going forward, if we want to eliminate the mistakes, understand it begins with the coach.

  5. #20
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Embarrassed.



    The New York Knicks showed up at Madison Square Garden Friday night hoping to provide us all with moments to remember -- then managed to ruin what was supposed to be their best weekend in a decade with memories of futility no one in this town will soon forget.

    They spent every second stinking up the joint in a multitude of fashions unimaginable, getting thoroughly outhustled, outmuscled and alarmingly outplayed. Considering how lost and disoriented they appeared over that span, it's clear they were noticeably outcoached, as well. The collateral damage of their 113-96 loss in Game 3 on this first-round series includes the crumbling of whatever euphoria had been generated from Games 1 and 2 vs. Boston, prompting a call for humility on the part of Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, who were officially diminished to second-tier stars until further notice. It also ignited even more questions about what's next -- and what should be next -- for this Knicks franchise.

    Yet, the worse part of it all is that the Knicks know the doubts are warranted.

    "Come on now, give us a break," Stoudemire echoed minutes after the game.

    "I have no explanation for what happened," the injured Chauncey Billups added.

    All Anthony could do was try to downplay the Knicks' horrid performance by saying, "We came in a little too slow," speaking of others as if they shared his level of responsibility. And all that did was provoke private thoughts of sarcasm and ridicule for lumping others in a group with himself, like they're all scheduled to get paid $85 million over the next four years, shouldered with the responsibility of elevating this franchise to a status it is nowhere near right now.

    The Knicks need Anthony to be a star in Game 4 on Sunday like he was in Game 2 in Boston last Tuesday. They need Toney Douglas to remember he doesn't need to wait 14 minutes before taking his first shot in the game. They need for Ronny Turiaf to pretend like he can defend. For Jared Jeffries to convince anyone he actually can play. They need to defend, to get Bill Walker and Shawne Williams more shots, and for Landry Fields to recall he's actually paid by the Knicks to show up and play.

    Contrary to popular belief, it's not the loss to the Celtics so much that had the Knicks' No. 1 fan Spike Lee looking like a lost puppy, or their fanbase draped with broomsticks permeating their minds. Nor was it the 38 points by Paul Pierce, the eight 3-pointers from Ray Allen (32 points) or the triple-double from Rajon Rondo (20 assists, two more than the entire Knicks team). What was most bothersome was the laughter seen on the faces of Pierce and Allen. The nonchalance the Celtics exhibited in executing their game plan with relative ease. The fact that they treated the Knicks, literally, like novices, toying with them as if they were amateurs on a playground.

    "Whatever the reason, we just didn't have it [Friday night]," Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni explained. "Their great players played great," he added, sounding like someone who had barely anything to do with the beating his team endured.

    Except D'Antoni did have a lot to do with the drubbing the Knicks experienced, from his team's lethargy, to its inability to defend the pick-and-roll, to its outright refusal to contest most of the 3-pointers getting launched by Pierce and Allen all evening long.

    "I was pleased with our effort and our performance in Games 1 and 2, not so pleased with what happened in [Game 3]," Knicks president Donnie Walsh deadpanned, following practice Saturday.

    Sadly, that's about as much as any of the Knicks appear to have in common with their fanbase right now.

    No one's in the mood for crucifying the Knicks on Easter Sunday, but they'll have to forgive those who may find it a tad bit difficult to find something nice to say about them. Just being candid, we should've all known we were in for a long evening before tip-off arrived, the moment we learned some Garden honcho actually OK'd the singing of the National Anthem by a group with a name like Diddy Dirty Money!

    The game, the debacle that took place before a soldout Garden, was supposed to evoke memories of an injured Willis Reed coming out of the tunnel, of Patrick Ewing, with Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley, of a coach in Pat Riley or Jeff Van Gundy. Memories of folks who actually fought in the midst of defeat, who went down swinging -- against the likes of Michael Jordan or Hakeem Olajuwon. One look at these Knicks after Game 3 was reminiscent of watching them depart from a salon, fresh manicure and pedicure appointments, just a pretty as could be.

    Barely anyone looked as if they had even produced a sweat. If it was noticeable on D'Antoni, it's because of the obvious heat he's feeling, as Celtics coach Doc Rivers suddenly has everyone fantasizing over what life would be like if he were the one parading the sideline.

    "This city, this stage, you can get caught up in all of that if you're not careful and I didn't want [the Celtics] to do that," Rivers explained. "I wanted us focused on competing. The game is competition for us. It ain't theater."

    It would've been nice to hear that from D'Antoni and his players. We didn't, which should tell us something.

    So much for wondering why the offseason is in the Knicks' immediate future. Along with a bevy of questions, yet to be answered.
    Last edited by Red; Apr 24, 2011 at 07:04.

  6. #21
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Like Red said...all of this is a culmination of:

    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    I made this point before. The Knicks seem to do everything exactly opposite of conventional basketball wisdom.

    Offense should be inside out...but we're outside in.

    Defense should start on the perimeter and deny penetration and have our bigs provide support and help.....but we let everyone and their moms get right in the paint and attack the cup then we're scrambling to try to close out on shots, and rotate extremely late on wing players....inside out.

    These are the things I've been seeing since MDA got here and they have nothing to do with talent, but more so the schemes and coaching (or lack thereof.)

    It's disgusting.


    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    I get everything you're saying, but I think you're kind of mixing apples with oranges. When you ask "can you blame Mike for the horror show back then?" are you talking about the wins and loses or the fashion in which we won and lost? Because they're not quite the same thing.

    The Knicks lack of defensive fundamentals (mostly having to do with team defense) was there as well. But it was just too easy to sit back and say "oh, well...we're shedding salary..." but now that the purging is complete, we have some pieces, the majority of them had training camp & preseason together...and those same defensive flaws that were present in 2008 & 2009, reared their ugly heads in 2010...and they're still here in 2011.

    Even if this team acquires all of the missing pieces deemed needed, gels, and continues to play this way on the defensive end next year...we will be in no better position.

    Something is wrong out there...there are either no set defensive strategies being installed and implemented, or there are...and the guys are ignoring MDA. Because team defense has very little to do with talent, just like Billups said and I see it in your sig, most defense is positioning, awareness, and effort...if players are not in the right spots, have their heads in the clouds, and are acting like a pregnant woman in her 8th month...who's job is it to light a fire under those dude's asses to get back to the plan installed for this game? You don't need STAT, Melo, Billups, a defensive 5, and whoever else all to be on the same team, nice and gelled, for 2 seasons to hold people accountable and get back to your game plan.

    I can live with a team playing the way the Knicks did in the 3rd Q last night, but can't pull out a win because of a lack of talent, or cohesiveness on the offensive end...the ironic thing is tho, if you play D like that for 4 quarters....you're gonna win more games than you lose. But that kind of defensive intensity and focus is a rarity for the Knicks and the 4th Q defensive efforts are far more common.

    Let's all get past wins and losses and records for a sec, and lets look at HOW we're winning and losing these games.

    Obviously some of the blame has to go to the players, but when it's an on going situation that has been there from day one, it has nothing to do with who's directing these players? The Knicks have had 30+ defensively unmotivated, and lazy players since MDA got here? And even if that was the case, he couldn't do anything to get more out of them? It's just "ehhh these guys don't wanna play D....let's score a lot of points?"
    The signs were obviously there...some missed it, some saw it. Those who seemed to have missed said signs have been eerily quiet on these boards. But I'll give them a pass because that loss on friday was absolutely crushing. I sat in my seat for another 5 mins after the final buzzer in shock....I don't even wanna go today...

  7. #22
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Like Red said...all of this is a culmination of:







    The signs were obviously there...some missed it, some saw it. Those who seemed to have missed said signs have been eerily quiet on these boards. But I'll give them a pass because that loss on friday was absolutely crushing. I sat in my seat for another 5 mins after the final buzzer in shock....I don't even wanna go today...
    Putting things into perspective- this isn't about one loss or a series loss to Boston. They have now have beaten us SEVEN straight going on eight.

    Walsh or whoever takes control, please bring me a coach that can maximize our potential and improve us on defense. Please. Then work on the player personnel.

  8. #23
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    Great thread, Red. I agree, Antoni has to go.

    He hasn't done anything for the team in 3 seasons.

    Any coach could have gotten the Knicks to the playoffs, with this roster.

    It takes a real coach to compete.

    This team should have won at least 1-2 games against Boston. A sweep is inexcusable.

    And the injury excuse is lame. The Knicks were healthy in games 1 and 2.

    And Antoni's short 7-8 man rotation was a big reason why STAT and Chauncey got hurt in the first place. He refused to rest his star players.

  9. #24
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo Not so fast..

    This year and the playoff birth that came w it is just one stage in what we all knew was a multi-yr plan.

    The only stated goal going in to this season, by both MDA and Donnie, was to MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.

    That's it.

    In my estimation there is 95- 99% MDA will be back next year if Donnie is resigned.

    This team as it stands at this moment, is fundamentally flawed. The way we've competed inspite of the injuries and incomplete makeup of the team has been commendable IMO.

    Let me list the things we have going against us currently:

    1. The loss of Billups.. And we all know how important it is that we have a facilitator at the position. He's a scoring point guard, but he knows how to get a team into an offensive set. He's also able to help our spacing w his outside shooting, another thing we've missed dearly. As I've said before Billups injury killed our hopes at having any chance at beating the Celts, particularly in the last game where we didn't even look respectable.

    2. We don't have Amare at 100%. I don't think this has anything to do w the minutes he's played over the course of the yr. Amare's averaged 37 min per game, which is not insane. Other stars around the league play comparable minutes. The injury also occurred in warmups when he tried to dunk the basketball, not in a game. It's a silly to say MDA is the cause. I think he managed Amare's minutes pretty well this season inspite of needing him to contribute significantly as he was our only star for more than half of the season.

    Not having Amare available to play like Amare has put more pressure on guys like JJ and Turiaf to anchor the middle and they can't be asked do this w good effect for to long. How can anyone blame effort as the cause of the blowout on Fri when we were clearly overmatched along the front line? This is not MDA's fault. We're overmatched in the backcourt as well, which brings me to my next point.

    3. Landry Fields... Where do I start w him?? His awkward, inept play has left a gaping chasm at the 2 so stupid-huge it's silly. This guy clearly is spent. He's never played a season like this before and he doesn't have his legs beneath him. He also hasn't figured out how to exist on the court w Melo. As a result, he's still not sure how to maximize the limited opportunities he now gets. I think the game-speed of the playoffs has effected him too. The game speeds up around this team of year. Good rookies can adjust to the speed of the regular season to a reasonable degree, but it becomes much more difficult to do this in the playoffs. This factor has exposed him IMO.

    Unfortunately we don't have too many other options but to keep trotting him out there. I've been tempted towards wondering whether Mason would be a better option at this point, but I think MDA is reluctant to damage Field's confidence by benching him at the start of games, especially as it became clear to him that the team was fighting an uphill battle w out even factoring in the injuries to Billups and Amare. If we don't trade him, we'll need him believing in himself and trusting the coach next year when he'll likely be able to play effectively through the rigors of a long season w out the debilitating attrition we've seen.


    4. Tony Douglas is not adequate as a backup facilitating PG. He has also been shown to be defenseless against both Rondo and Allen. They've both comprehensively destroyed the poor kid. He'll be better for it next yr, but I hope everyone sees clearly now that he simply isn't the answer at point in the future. No frigging way.

    TD not being able to sustain us at his position made us look like D-league squad in game 3. Again how is MDA to blame for this?


    Yes there have been some seeming errors. The pass to JJ in game 2.. People say Turiaf should have been in the game instead of him. Well to that I say Amare should have been available to carry us home along Melo. Also what guarantee do we have that Turiaf would have been able to finish w one of the best defensive bigs in the game closing on him. It's easy to blame MDA for the play drawn up and the personnel on the floor, but i'm not sure the options he had on the bench were that much better. We were outmatched and thus MUCH easier to stop. Think about how easy is it to double one star player and rotate your HOF big underneath the basket to defend the paint after Melo's pass smh. You say MDA was out- coached. I say he was outgunned. Amare would have finished that play as he has all season for us down the stretch. MDA didn't have this luxury.

    There was one thing that I will say really bothered me w re: to MDA, and it also occurred in game 2. It was when Boston's guards were able to dribble the clock out behind the halfcourt line-- a clear error by our coach. Our guys should have been aware that Boston could do this.

    This is really the only thing I can get on coach for.

    Not having timeouts is important, but if you remember, we burned several in each of the games fighting for lose balls. I do think MDA should have atleast one 20 sec at the end of a game however.

    Overall, I think this team has fought admirably in these games, especially in games 1 & 2. Let us also remember that the defense was really solid in both outings. In game 3 Boston basically figured out they were playing against a wounded team talent wise, a team also in a state of flux.


    I'd like the team to continue under MDA, but as Musketeer has pointed out, historically his overall philosophy may not be conducive to winning a championship. I agree that he should make rm on his bench for a defensive minded assistant coach. He should also lengthen the rotation over the course of next season. Shortening it in the playoffs is fine but it really helps the defense when you can keep fresh guys coming in. This should be intuitive, especially on a team that likes to expend effort running..

    Filling the holes this team has will also go a long way obviously aswell.

    One more thought..

    Can you guys imagine how we'd look if Melo and Amare had the whole season to develop chemistry as Wade and Lebron have?

    Let's remember this team is one that has essentially played only 30 or so games together. To ask our guys to do more than we have thus far against a seasoned Boston squad w our injuries and lack of familiarity is asking alot, too much IMO. Team upheaval like we've seen should happen in the offseason, not mid-season. Realistically no one should've expected us to win more than one game in this series.

    To simply blame MDA for where we're at w out rationally considering other factors that impinge on his options and flexibility during these games is downright silly. Some are using this opportunity based on said lack of options/flexibility to call for our coaches head and this IMO is not fair.

    There's alot more to this thing than JUST D'ant guys. It's one thing to sort of carelessly gloss over these other factors. It's another thing to really understand and acknowledge how these issues affect our team and MDA's ability to coach effectively.

    That said, in the playoffs and thruout the season, i think he's been a huge positive for us. He's shown he can really coach in a pinch, w massive change having gone on underneath him while dealing w the pressure of securing a playoff position-- no easy feat. This is something that bodes well for us as the team continues to change.

    We're on the right track.

    Though the losses to Boston hurt, but i'm not yet ready to say we need to go in another direction re: our coach.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Apr 24, 2011 at 23:20.

  10. #25
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    I agree this coach is in over his head. You have arguably the two best players on the floor and you cant get a win on your home court. Not only cant you get a win you are getting SPANKED? No effort. No adjustments. Just shoot jump shot after junp shot hoping someone gets hot?

    I tried to explain to you all this is NBA EASTERN CONFERENCE PLAYOFF BASKETBALL. That stuff that flies out west isnt happening over here. Add to the fact that we're playing a seasoned, veteran team that really understands the concept of DEFENSE, and its easy to see why we're playing the way we are. Relying on that SSOL aint happening in these here playoffs.

    Fire MDA as soon as the game is over today. Its the best thing for the team and the best thing for him...

  11. #26
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    14-14 since Carmelo arrived and getting swept in the first round equals D'antoni getting fired. It has to be. Fair or not. Mike was schooled by Rivers in the first 2 games. He was abused at the half each of the first 3 games, as BOS blew us out in the 3rd quarters, and his coaching in the final 2 minutes was partly responsible for us getting swept.

    BUT... going w/ TD too long over A Carter, playing Jeffries, Walker and Shawne too much. HIs system/offense, and reliance on low pct, 3-point shots... HIs lack of any design on defense, and his inability to inspire his troops...

    F-I-R-E-D.

    The fan base needs some meat thrown to us... It can't be Melo or Amar'e. Give us the next best thing. BEG Van Gundy to return or just hire Mark Jackson.

  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    14-14 since Carmelo arrived and getting swept in the first round equals D'antoni getting fired. It has to be. Fair or not. Mike was schooled by Rivers in the first 2 games. He was abused at the half each of the first 3 games, as BOS blew us out in the 3rd quarters, and his coaching in the final 2 minutes was partly responsible for us getting swept.

    BUT... going w/ TD too long over A Carter, playing Jeffries, Walker and Shawne too much. HIs system/offense, and reliance on low pct, 3-point shots... HIs lack of any design on defense, and his inability to inspire his troops...

    F-I-R-E-D.

    The fan base needs some meat thrown to us... It can't be Melo or Amar'e. Give us the next best thing. BEG Van Gundy to return or just hire Mark Jackson.
    Also I have a feeling Walsh is going to retire... i don't want him too but considering you haven't heard anything about him re-signing with the knicks led me to believe that he didn't want to add drama to the end of the season.... So yeah unfortunately it makes a certain amount of sense that D'antoni would be fired by the New GM to give him a chance to give the team a new look.

    Also considering every other team was able to give the arguably better opponent at least 1 lost it means the Knicks were the worse team in these playoffs.....

  13. #28
    Veteran la2ny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    Also considering every other team was able to give the arguably better opponent at least 1 lost it means the Knicks were the worse team in these playoffs.....
    Denver didn't win a game....

  14. #29
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    Originally Posted by Wargames

    Also considering every other team was able to give the arguably better opponent at least 1 lost it means the Knicks were the worse team in these playoffs.....
    What it should have said is: it means the Knicks were the worst coached team in these playoffs.

  15. #30
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    Originally Posted by SoCal KnicksFan
    What it should have said is: it means the Knicks were the worst coached team in these playoffs.
    i second that...

    I have more confidence in George Karl coaching a Nuggets team with no legit star than Mike D with Melo and Amare.

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