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Thread: This Is Why We Need A New Coach.

  1. #31
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    Mike D's big problem is he really doesn't have any sense whatsoever when it comes to using his players.

    For example, everybody in the world knows that interior defense and size (and thus rebounding) is one of our big problems. It's why I heaped all sorts of praise on D'Antoni when he gave Shelden Williams minutes towards the end of the season, he seemed to finally see our need for rebounding.

    And come playoffs Shelden Williams doesn't even play a single minute.

    Coach started using Bill Walker way too late, Walker's a decent player but he only had about 10 games of regular playing time before the playoffs started...you can't just insert a player in and expect him to perform amazingly...

    Coach heavily depended on Shawne Williams in the regular season but inexplicably sat him for most of Game 1. Roger Mason, Jr. played only twice in the entire month of April during the regular season but coach decided to give him some burn in the playoffs...why? Anthony Carter, who played well for us after the trade, got no time in Game 1 or Game 2...I mean, come on.

    There are just some things that make you wonder if coach is actually COACHING or if he's just playing an NBA Live game with customized stats

  2. #32
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    You guys continue to just blame Dantonio....

    We did not have the same starting 5 for a season.
    We blew up our team at the tradeline.
    We have players :
    Walker ( was DNP when on the Celtics )
    Shawn Williams ( non-NBA player last year )
    Roger Mason ( Spurs did not even want him as a 12th man )
    Jared Jeffries ( released by the Rockets )
    Anthony Carter ( averaged 13 minutes for the Nuggets )
    Sheldon Williams ( under 8 minutes for the Nuggets )
    Balkman ( DNP for the nuggets )
    Turiaf ( hurt all the time on Warriors )

    Now for the playoffs...
    Billups OUT
    Amare in Game 2 2nd half OUT/ Game 3 as good as OUT

    Leaves Melo, Fields and douglas...

    Both Douglas and Fields on another team would see so few minutes...


    This is what we had to work with ..Give the coach some credit for making us competitive....but yes in the end the better experienced players will win...


    Come on dont kid yourself.

  3. #33
    Veteran KingofNy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    You guys continue to just blame Dantonio....

    We did not have the same starting 5 for a season.
    We blew up our team at the tradeline.
    We have players :
    Walker ( was DNP when on the Celtics )
    Shawn Williams ( non-NBA player last year )
    Roger Mason ( Spurs did not even want him as a 12th man )
    Jared Jeffries ( released by the Rockets )
    Anthony Carter ( averaged 13 minutes for the Nuggets )
    Sheldon Williams ( under 8 minutes for the Nuggets )
    Balkman ( DNP for the nuggets )
    Turiaf ( hurt all the time on Warriors )

    Now for the playoffs...
    Billups OUT
    Amare in Game 2 2nd half OUT/ Game 3 as good as OUT

    Leaves Melo, Fields and douglas...

    Both Douglas and Fields on another team would see so few minutes...


    This is what we had to work with ..Give the coach some credit for making us competitive....but yes in the end the better experienced players will win...


    Come on dont kid yourself.
    LOL @ U. Seriously? ahahahahha. Continuing to make excuses for Antoni is like shooting yourself in the foot...Twice.

    Our coach is garbage no matter which way you spin it. The players do what they're told and run the plays the coach calls. We have no plays and the players (including our THREE stars) have NO confidence in our coach. Even the TV analysts continually call out Antoni's decisions, indecision's and questionable offensive and defensive sets/rotations. It's pretty sad when Chauncey Billups is doing a better job of coaching and he's just an injured player. I can't count how many times our players make mistakes and then he claps and slaps their hand on their way to the bench and not acknowledge they did anything wrong but then the camera cuts to Billups instructing them to fix their errors. Ugghh...lol

    But go ahead keep making excuses for his lack of coaching. It is pretty comical. If for some god forsaken reason Antoni's still here next year we can pull this thread back up again after we get tossed from the first round and compare your new list of excuses to this one. Excuses are like hoes, they suck d***!

  4. #34
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    ...We all know that our roster isn't perfect. We need help at the guard position very badly. We don't have interior defense. We don't have any rebounding.

    It doesn't change the fact that Mike D'Antoni's rotations and substitutions make absolutely no sense whatsoever. I gave the man the benefit of the doubt when he put AR in the doghouse. Guess what happened? Oh wait, AR absolutely started BALLING when he got to Minnesota and Mike D didn't even bother to notice it.

    D'Antoni is a good assistant coach who looks like a really good head coach when he has players who can make him look really good. He had Steve Nash to make him look good in Phoenix, he had Jason Kidd/Deron Williams/Chris Paul to make him look good for Team USA, but on the Knicks he doesn't have an athletic PG who can handle his "uptempo system" and shoot 45% from 3's all at the same time so he looks like an awful coach.

    A good coach knows how to tailor his system to the roster he has. Pat Riley ran an uptempo system with the Showtime Lakers but was still successful with a drastically different style of play in New York.

    I wasn't that supportive of Mike D'Antoni's hiring because I'm just not a fan of his type of basketball, but nonetheless I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he could make things work.

    If he sticks around for another year he's going to have to work out of the half-court offense because that's where both Billups and Carmelo's strengths lie. If he can't do that, then we need to find a coach who can get the most out of the players he has, rather than pretend he's in some sort of fantasy world where his PG is much better than he actually is.

  5. #35
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Originally Posted by KingofNy
    LOL @ U. Seriously? ahahahahha. Continuing to make excuses for Antoni is like shooting yourself in the foot...Twice.

    Our coach is garbage no matter which way you spin it. The players do what they're told and run the plays the coach calls. We have no plays and the players (including our THREE stars) have NO confidence in our coach. Even the TV analysts continually call out Antoni's decisions, indecision's and questionable offensive and defensive sets/rotations. It's pretty sad when Chauncey Billups is doing a better job of coaching and he's just an injured player. I can't count how many times our players make mistakes and then he claps and slaps their hand on their way to the bench and not acknowledge they did anything wrong but then the camera cuts to Billups instructing them to fix their errors. Ugghh...lol

    But go ahead keep making excuses for his lack of coaching. It is pretty comical. If for some god forsaken reason Antoni's still here next year we can pull this thread back up again after we get tossed from the first round and compare your new list of excuses to this one. Excuses are like hoes, they suck d***!
    Are you aware of how you look??

    Continuing to ignore important factors that impinge on MDA's ability to have a positive oncourt result against a team like Boston makes you look like blind hater.

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    You guys continue to just blame Dantonio....

    We did not have the same starting 5 for a season.
    We blew up our team at the tradeline.
    We have players :
    Walker ( was DNP when on the Celtics )
    Shawn Williams ( non-NBA player last year )
    Roger Mason ( Spurs did not even want him as a 12th man )
    Jared Jeffries ( released by the Rockets )
    Anthony Carter ( averaged 13 minutes for the Nuggets )
    Sheldon Williams ( under 8 minutes for the Nuggets )
    Balkman ( DNP for the nuggets )
    Turiaf ( hurt all the time on Warriors )

    Now for the playoffs...
    Billups OUT
    Amare in Game 2 2nd half OUT/ Game 3 as good as OUT

    Leaves Melo, Fields and douglas...

    Both Douglas and Fields on another team would see so few minutes...


    This is what we had to work with ..Give the coach some credit for making us competitive....but yes in the end the better experienced players will win...


    Come on dont kid yourself.
    OK even if I give you all the above, please tell me where were the adjustments? The Knicks lost all three games playing basically the same way. 95% of the game plan was away from the rim. After game one when we werent hitting OK fine. After game two when our shooters played like crap other than Melo its time to adjust. Wouldnt you agree?

  7. #37
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    I think MDA has shown that he is a second rate coach with this series. Every single time the Knicks were in a situation to win, he was severely out coached by Doc Rivers. He was just undressed.

    MDA's substitutions were poor, and he had the Knicks defend the same pick and roll play the same way each time. Play way too far off Rondo, let him penetrate, which causes the defense to collapse on him, leaving KG open for a mid-range, automatic J...

    Just plain sad.

    We need a coach who does more than just talk about D.

  8. #38
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    I think MDA has shown that he is a second rate coach with this series. Every single time the Knicks were in a situation to win, he was severely out coached by Doc Rivers. He was just undressed.

    MDA's substitutions were poor, and he had the Knicks defend the same pick and roll play the same way each time. Play way too far off Rondo, let him penetrate, which causes the defense to collapse on him, leaving KG open for a mid-range, automatic J...

    Just plain sad.

    We need a coach who does more than just talk about D.
    Do realize how difficult it is to guard a good pick and roll?

    Let me ask you something else.. How'd the Lakers guard the pick and roll against Paul and Co. tnite?? The Lakers play pretty good defense right?

    You have to sag off of Rondo on pick and roll, otherwise he gets a layup. I'd rather the Celts get a KG 15 footer than give up the paint to Rondo in the half court. He gets enough forays into the paint in transition.

    Add it's somewhat easier to win the end of game execution battles when you have 4 starters (each who are all stars) who know all each other intuitively and have championship forged/tested chemistry.

  9. #39
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    Please bring in Mark Jackson. He is a perfect fit. Young, smart, former Knick.

  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    OK even if I give you all the above, please tell me where were the adjustments? The Knicks lost all three games playing basically the same way. 95% of the game plan was away from the rim. After game one when we werent hitting OK fine. After game two when our shooters played like crap other than Melo its time to adjust. Wouldnt you agree?
    Make no mistake I did not say I am satisfied with Dantonio. What I did say is look what he had to work with. Everybody thinks that we should have made adjustments...

    BLIND HATERS....

    We had no point guard for Game 3 and 4. Coaches fault ?
    Amare could not move in Game 3 and slow at game 4 start.
    Tony Douglas messed up the shoulder again.
    Sheldon Williams sprains ankle in the last game...

    DUDE with what we have to work with how many adjustments can he make when playing a Championship team with 4 all stars that have played together for 4 years.....Your are kidding yourself......

    There is no coach on the league that would have shown more success....

    should Phil Jackson be fired for not stopping Chris Paul ?
    Van Gundy for Orlando failing.....
    George Karl ?
    Popovich should be gone as well..


    I am not saying I belIEVE IN DANTONIO OR WANT HIM TO REMAIN COACH BUT I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT DUE TO The KEY INJURIES NO COACH WOULD HAVE DONE ANY BETTER...

  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    This year and the playoff birth that came w it is just one stage in what we all knew was a multi-yr plan.

    The only stated goal going in to this season, by both MDA and Donnie, was to MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.

    That's it.

    In my estimation there is 95- 99% MDA will be back next year if Donnie is resigned.

    This team as it stands at this moment, is fundamentally flawed. The way we've competed inspite of the injuries and incomplete makeup of the team has been commendable IMO.

    Let me list the things we have going against us currently:

    1. The loss of Billups.. And we all know how important it is that we have a facilitator at the position. He's a scoring point guard, but he knows how to get a team into an offensive set. He's also able to help our spacing w his outside shooting, another thing we've missed dearly. As I've said before Billups injury killed our hopes at having any chance at beating the Celts, particularly in the last game where we didn't even look respectable.

    2. We don't have Amare at 100%. I don't think this has anything to do w the minutes he's played over the course of the yr. Amare's averaged 37 min per game, which is not insane. Other stars around the league play comparable minutes. The injury also occurred in warmups when he tried to dunk the basketball, not in a game. It's a silly to say MDA is the cause. I think he managed Amare's minutes pretty well this season inspite of needing him to contribute significantly as he was our only star for more than half of the season.

    Not having Amare available to play like Amare has put more pressure on guys like JJ and Turiaf to anchor the middle and they can't be asked do this w good effect for to long. How can anyone blame effort as the cause of the blowout on Fri when we were clearly overmatched along the front line? This is not MDA's fault. We're overmatched in the backcourt as well, which brings me to my next point.

    3. Landry Fields... Where do I start w him?? His awkward, inept play has left a gaping chasm at the 2 so stupid-huge it's silly. This guy clearly is spent. He's never played a season like this before and he doesn't have his legs beneath him. He also hasn't figured out how to exist on the court w Melo. As a result, he's still not sure how to maximize the limited opportunities he now gets. I think the game-speed of the playoffs has effected him too. The game speeds up around this team of year. Good rookies can adjust to the speed of the regular season to a reasonable degree, but it becomes much more difficult to do this in the playoffs. This factor has exposed him IMO.

    Unfortunately we don't have too many other options but to keep trotting him out there. I've been tempted towards wondering whether Mason would be a better option at this point, but I think MDA is reluctant to damage Field's confidence by benching him at the start of games, especially as it became clear to him that the team was fighting an uphill battle w out even factoring in the injuries to Billups and Amare. If we don't trade him, we'll need him believing in himself and trusting the coach next year when he'll likely be able to play effectively through the rigors of a long season w out the debilitating attrition we've seen.


    4. Tony Douglas is not adequate as a backup facilitating PG. He has also been shown to be defenseless against both Rondo and Allen. They've both comprehensively destroyed the poor kid. He'll be better for it next yr, but I hope everyone sees clearly now that he simply isn't the answer at point in the future. No frigging way.

    TD not being able to sustain us at his position made us look like D-league squad in game 3. Again how is MDA to blame for this?


    Yes there have been some seeming errors. The pass to JJ in game 2.. People say Turiaf should have been in the game instead of him. Well to that I say Amare should have been available to carry us home along Melo. Also what guarantee do we have that Turiaf would have been able to finish w one of the best defensive bigs in the game closing on him. It's easy to blame MDA for the play drawn up and the personnel on the floor, but i'm not sure the options he had on the bench were that much better. We were outmatched and thus MUCH easier to stop. Think about how easy is it to double one star player and rotate your HOF big underneath the basket to defend the paint after Melo's pass smh. You say MDA was out- coached. I say he was outgunned. Amare would have finished that play as he has all season for us down the stretch. MDA didn't have this luxury.

    There was one thing that I will say really bothered me w re: to MDA, and it also occurred in game 2. It was when Boston's guards were able to dribble the clock out behind the halfcourt line-- a clear error by our coach. Our guys should have been aware that Boston could do this.

    This is really the only thing I can get on coach for.

    Not having timeouts is important, but if you remember, we burned several in each of the games fighting for lose balls. I do think MDA should have atleast one 20 sec at the end of a game however.

    Overall, I think this team has fought admirably in these games, especially in games 1 & 2. Let us also remember that the defense was really solid in both outings. In game 3 Boston basically figured out they were playing against a wounded team talent wise, a team also in a state of flux.


    I'd like the team to continue under MDA, but as Musketeer has pointed out, historically his overall philosophy may not be conducive to winning a championship. I agree that he should make rm on his bench for a defensive minded assistant coach. He should also lengthen the rotation over the course of next season. Shortening it in the playoffs is fine but it really helps the defense when you can keep fresh guys coming in. This should be intuitive, especially on a team that likes to expend effort running..

    Filling the holes this team has will also go a long way obviously aswell.

    One more thought..

    Can you guys imagine how we'd look if Melo and Amare had the whole season to develop chemistry as Wade and Lebron have?

    Let's remember this team is one that has essentially played only 30 or so games together. To ask our guys to do more than we have thus far against a seasoned Boston squad w our injuries and lack of familiarity is asking alot, too much IMO. Team upheaval like we've seen should happen in the offseason, not mid-season. Realistically no one should've expected us to win more than one game in this series.

    To simply blame MDA for where we're at w out rationally considering other factors that impinge on his options and flexibility during these games is downright silly. Some are using this opportunity based on said lack of options/flexibility to call for our coaches head and this IMO is not fair.

    There's alot more to this thing than JUST D'ant guys. It's one thing to sort of carelessly gloss over these other factors. It's another thing to really understand and acknowledge how these issues affect our team and MDA's ability to coach effectively.

    That said, in the playoffs and thruout the season, i think he's been a huge positive for us. He's shown he can really coach in a pinch, w massive change having gone on underneath him while dealing w the pressure of securing a playoff position-- no easy feat. This is something that bodes well for us as the team continues to change.

    We're on the right track.

    Though the losses to Boston hurt, but i'm not yet ready to say we need to go in another direction re: our coach.
    You obviously DIDN'T read the op.

    While you intimate I or anyone is "Blaming" D'Antoni for our experiences, you fail to acknowledge the assertion that he isn't what we need going forward.

    That further investment in him bares too much risk. You have an answer and explanaton for everything, as I pointed out in the op.

    Again, even SUCCESSFUL coaches get released and or fired at times. The decisions can all be argued and there is a rebuttle for every point you make.

    We have injuries, that had nothing to do with late game decisions.

    We had roster turnover, that had nothing to do with DNP'ing for the sole purpose of proving a point.

    Going forward, the players NEEDED to be acquired, that make up for certain deficiencies are NOT available, stop dreaming.

    Going forward the decisions that need to be made to take us to the next level cannot be relied upon to be made by Mike D'Antoni.

    What are the odds of acquiring a Defender that will take the Knicks frm 28th to top 10 or top 15? Slim to none. And that's partially based on what D'Antoni has demonstrated and the players HE values throughout his career.

    Get it? His entire career suggests the concept of performing his grand scheme of offense AND acquiring the proper two way players to excel at defense, given his pedigree and our cap situation is just a concept. In practice its not possible.

    Nothing you can mention can counter that point. Using short sighted logic to "explain" "who's to blame for the Knicks woes" can never trump what has been proven over a nine year body of work.

    Mike may be thought of as an offensive genius, but history has proven that such an approach limits the availability and
    usage of defensive players needed to excel further.

    To think that the impossible is possible (that being we acquire offensively gifted as well as defensively adept players which in turn are usually allstars) without having a coach that actually advances DEFENSIVE PROWESS (not offensive) which Mike has proven he doesnt't

    is an excersize in futility. Its ignorant of the facts and the risks involved. Not your excuses as to why, but based on facts.

    A coach and a leader have greater chance of changing the defensive culture and outcome over assuming Mike can do so after what we've witnessed. He's just not he right fit.


    Originally Posted by skisloper
    You guys continue to just blame Dantonio....

    We did not have the same starting 5 for a season.
    We blew up our team at the tradeline.
    We have players :
    Walker ( was DNP when on the Celtics )
    Shawn Williams ( non-NBA player last year )
    Roger Mason ( Spurs did not even want him as a 12th man )
    Jared Jeffries ( released by the Rockets )
    Anthony Carter ( averaged 13 minutes for the Nuggets )
    Sheldon Williams ( under 8 minutes for the Nuggets )
    Balkman ( DNP for the nuggets )
    Turiaf ( hurt all the time on Warriors )

    Now for the playoffs...
    Billups OUT
    Amare in Game 2 2nd half OUT/ Game 3 as good as OUT

    Leaves Melo, Fields and douglas...

    Both Douglas and Fields on another team would see so few minutes...


    This is what we had to work with ..Give the coach some credit for making us competitive....but yes in the end the better experienced players will win...


    Come on dont kid yourself.
    See above.

    While you're coming up with excuses and explanations, try and figure out why is there even a need to do so.

    Going forward to expect a difference that has that much of an impact is ludicrous. He has never been above 15th in defense, and that was with Joe Johnson, Barbosa, The Matrix, Steve Nash, Amare, Diaw and more!

    Do you really think we will any semblance of that roster? Do you think that 15th will get us over that hump? After all the player personnel issues we've had which I don't see you mentioning, do you really want to take that risk?


    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Are you aware of how you look??

    Continuing to ignore important factors that impinge on MDA's ability to have a positive oncourt result against a team like Boston makes you look like blind hater.
    Important factors that impinge on MDA's ability...

    I know you are smart enough to see the error in this statement.

    And to intimate that poor results were against Boston in this series only is very ignorant. If you want us to see you as objective, then please don't use selective memory, and consider the entire story.

    Anyway, I'm sure you'll support whoever we bring in. Hopefully it won't be more "wait til' next year" fight songs.

  12. #42
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    I am not saying I want Dantonio as our coach
    BUT
    what I am saying is based on what we had I do not think any coach in the NBA would have done any better,,,,

    I understand your point . If Dantonio can hand pick his team for next year it would be very different then a team Rivers, Jackson or Popavich would pick....I get that,,,,,,,

    I just think we did pretty good.....If Dantonio gets fired tomorrow I am ok with that.....If he stays for another year I am ok with that,,,,,,,,,


    I do believe he will see his weaknesses and make adjustments....

    I have alot of Faith in Walsh.

  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    I am not saying I want Dantonio as our coach
    BUT
    what I am saying is based on what we had I do not think any coach in the NBA would have done any better,,,,

    I understand your point . If Dantonio can hand pick his team for next year it would be very different then a team Rivers, Jackson or Popavich would pick....I get that,,,,,,,

    I just think we did pretty good.....If Dantonio gets fired tomorrow I am ok with that.....If he stays for another year I am ok with that,,,,,,,,,


    I do believe he will see his weaknesses and make adjustments....

    I have alot of Faith in Walsh.
    What another coach could have done is speculative. Based on what we've seen in 9 years...

    Are you confident D'Antoni can bring us where we are trying to get?

    Besides increased possessions how has Mda illutrated an ability increase a player's or team's defense? Or demonstrated an ability to value, use, and prospect true defensive players - let alone the ones who fit into his system ofensively are slim pickens.

    How can you be confident that that much of a change will take place, combined with that much of an opportunity needed? Too risky to think so.

  14. #44
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    and to think we gave up galo to keep fields

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    Originally Posted by Hayato
    and to think we gave up galo to keep fields
    We needed a shooting guard more than another forward. Its tough, but Fields was hurt the most by Melo slowing the ball down.

    I don't blame Dantoni for losing the series. First game should have been ours and that would have changed the tone of the next few games. Its true that just about any coach would have had trouble winning this series with all the injuries and bit players we had. Anytime you lose, all of your mistakes will be amplified and thats what happened. Everyone forgets all the coach's mistakes when the players bring on the victory.

    However, there will need to be someone to blame and that will be Dantoni. He's already the media's whipping post and his style doesn't really suit our team anymore. Though one could argue that it should be Melo who changed for the team, not the team changing for Melo.

    Either way, I won't be happy unless we get Adelman. He's the ONLY good available coach and a perfect system for our players.

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