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Thread: There's No Defense For Mike D'Antoni.

  1. #46
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s

    I'd love to know which player was quoted herein. My guess is either Derek Brown or Anthony Carter.



    If it was DBrown you have to blow that off, he's not a fan of D'Antoni because of his playing time, another potential malcontent like AR.

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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    If it was DBrown you have to blow that off, he's not a fan of D'Antoni because of his playing time, another potential malcontent like AR.
    Could be one of the big three...

    Neither Melo or Amar'e stuck up for D'Antoni after the series when asked if he should be back next year.

    Their response: "You need to talk to the front office about that."

    If they wanted him back, they would have said. He is a great coach, and we'll need him next year.

    If the big three are upset, there is no way he is sticking around.


    @KBlack -- Are you disagreeing with Smith's points??? If so, and maybe I missed your post, but where are the instances where he is wrong?

    Did the Celtics not guard every play we have like they ran it themselves? Did we not fail to make proper adjustments? Did we not get burned by the pick and roll every time they used it. Have we not been burned by the pick and roll all season long? (The last one is a question of my own -- not Smith's).
    Last edited by MusketeerX; Apr 26, 2011 at 01:01.

  3. #48
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s

    I'd love to know which player was quoted herein. My guess is either Derek Brown or Anthony Carter.
    To me it sounds like something a multi-year veteran would say. I don't think a young player like Derrick Brown has seen enough of other coaches to make a comment that he's never seen anything like MDA's approach. My bet would be Chauncey Billups or Melo are the ones saying it if anything but AC is another likely candidate. Damn sure know it's not Jared Jeffries.

  4. #49
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    So why post 10+ times in a thread that bores you and you've already seen?

    And in regard to my agreeing and saying the same thing, I meant I had been saying them prior to reading SAS's article. Should have been more expressive of that.

    And have you mentioned D'Antoni once in this thread?
    Because some have decided to take offense to me stating the truth: The only reason this topic was posted by the OP, and why the topic was said to be a "must-read" by the OP is because the OP agrees with Screamin A. Smith - not because it presents any interesting discussion points.

  5. #50
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    @KBlack -- Are you disagreeing with Smith's points??? If so, and maybe I missed your post, but where are the instances where he is wrong?

    Did the Celtics not guard every play we have like they ran it themselves? Did we not fail to make proper adjustments? Did we not get burned by the pick and roll every time they used it. Have we not been burned by the pick and roll all season long? (The last one is a question of my own -- not Smith's).
    He's not MAKING any points. I watched the games, I heard the announcers comment on the exact same things...I disagree with calling this a must-read, it's nothing the announcers didn't say during the games.

  6. #51
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    He's not MAKING any points. I watched the games, I heard the announcers comment on the exact same things...I disagree with calling this a must-read, it's nothing the announcers didn't say during the games.

    And yet you read.... and post.
    Don't shoot the messenger. Because you aren't a fan of SAS, your logic has skeewed the importance of the facts.

    First, if you "disagreed" with his view points- you should have stated you disagreed, then stfu.

    Second, if you require "new", "factual", or "relevant" information in oreder to be discussed, realize the interviews were new, factual, and relevant.

    Third, where are your rebuttles? Where are your quotes and sources that say different?

    Fourth, you don't have any rebuttles, nor examples of writing you feel are important- thus when you make comments speculating as to my motives for posting...

    Then we can all assume yur ferver in this thread are as a direct result of you "disagreeing" as infer we are only here because we "agree". Its a two way street.

    But really, (please take note)
    It doesn't matter what you say or do. It matters not that you agree with the article or thread. I will NEVER stop until the Knicks achieve success. You can't alter, divert, or distract me from this goal. All you can do is add fuel to my fire.

    Post and disagree all you want, it's futile. Like it or not. Mike has to go, everytime I feel it relevant to share I will, and face it, there's nothing you can do.


    More to come...

    By the way, check out the "Anti-D'Antoni thread", some moreinteresting tid bits. Matter of fact I'll repost here.

  7. #52
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    Like fruit?

    That's how Rajon Rondo made his bones. As a former shot-distributor in the ABA, NBA and Italy, it's unfathomable D'Antoni fails to grasp the intense difficulty to divide shots among Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to their satisfaction.
    Finding a substitute for Billups would be impossible. Finding someone who specializes in blocked shots, defense and rebounding (two out of three ain't bad) would be next to impossible. Who can they secure for $8 million carved between two bigs, maybe three -- Samuel Dalembert, Reggie Evans, Kenyon Martin, Nazr Mohammed, Kwame Brown, Jeff Foster?
    That's why it pays to stick with Billups. Yes, his salary puts the Knicks over the cap, but it solidifies the second most important position. And by keeping him, it permits the Knicks to use the $5 million mid-level exception (if the new CBA doesn't eliminate it) to split between two of the aforementioned players.
    That brings us to D'Antoni's shaky status. Who cares that he took the Suns twice to the Western Conference finals? Alvin Gentry took the same talent there last season. What's important is how well D'Antoni coached the Knicks in the playoffs, with or without all his talent. Pretty lousy, from what I observed.
    While we live in world of diminished expectations -- the Mysterious J. can attest to that -- D'Antoni lowered the limbo bar. Save for a couple stretches when I suspect the Celtics dozed rather than the Knicks dazzled, his team came home for two games and did not compete . . . and that simply does not compute.
    "Boston today is a better team than we are in every sense of the word."
    This quote was brought to you by a guy who's 50-50 to get outcoached by Kurt Rambis, Roy Rubin and Red Klotz. So, we have a franchise which has lost its last ten playoff games led by a (lame-duck?) coach who has lost 10 of his last 11.
    D'Antoni doesn't deserve to get more time just because the Knicks tanked his first two seasons. This is his 17th on the sidelines. It's not like he figures to get better at the job if given more years. If he can't react to adverse situations now why prolong his stay just because he's owed $6 million? It's like keeping a player who stinks just because he's making important money.
    The best time to evaluate a coach is when things go wrong, not when they're winning. When you're down and out, you've got to do something, think of something that's helpful. What did D'Antoni do of consequence for the Knicks when they were hurting and undermanned?
    Melo and Amar'e got swept and look what they did? They were not rendered useless. D'Antoni was rendered useless.
    After Sunday's column, I got an e-mail from a prominent former NBA coach. While he agreed D'Antoni "basically had been outcoached by Doc Rivers, he's probably a little better than u had him in last article.
    "Mike is essentially another Nellie (Don Nelson). Wants to coach a wide open game with no big men and then complains he never had a big man."
    I don't believe for a silly second Walsh -- or Dolan, should he dictate the decision -- will do the right thing and ditch D'Antoni, especially following endorsements by Stoudemire (effusive) and Anthony (milquetoast).
    (FYI: superstars are notorious for expressing one sentiment publicly and going the opposite way privately to management.)
    Unlike Billups, D'Antoni would be easy to replace. Mark Jackson should've been hired initially. ABC-ESPN viewers are praying Jeff Van Gundy returns to the office. Mike Brown is unemployed. And Rick Adelman still wants to coach.
    Look how the Rockets played the last two years without Yao Ming. I've yet to hear anyone knock his ability or say it wasn't fun playing for him.
    Calm yourself; Thomas has no shot to resurrect his coaching or front office career with the Knicks. If he did, if Dolan was truly considering bringing him back, the False Prophet would not be trying to manipulate every influential journalist within the sound of his voice.
    How about those apples?!?

  8. #53
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    If I were GM, I'd think about bringing MDA back since he's owed 6 million and he's never had a stable lineup (the business side). With that said, my competitive side would have strong concerns about his coaching style, decision-making, use of players, clock management, communication, defensive awareness as coach, etc... At that point I would have to seriously look at my options because the Amare/Melo tandem probably only has about a 4-5 year window of high level play.

    I agree with the above article that players will (obviously) say one thing to the media but behind doors will express their real concerns to upper management. Think about it... is it really logical for CB, Melo or Stat to throw MDA under the bus in public?? This is not to say they definitely had negative things to say in private, but you have to believe they have some concerns. There is just no way as a player (who understands the game) you honestly think MDA is an all around great coach.

    We have to remember, these guys have media training and are mostly politically correct in their statements. However, when you get a guy like SAS to kick it with them one on one you get the raw answers (albeit anonymously).

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    You know. I still dont know this team. There hasnt been a game where Melo and STAT have clicked. Game by game one player takes over or is the focal point. Before Melo there were definite roles. You know where everyone is supposed to be. This current team still has no offensive identity. They're just winging it.

    I hate hearing about this "system". The "system" in theory works but he I dont think MDA has a hands on approach to the offense.

    I mean every coach has a system. They all expect the players to run that systema certain way. But sometimes the system may stall (defense figured it out, player struggling etc.) This is where I feel MDA fails. I have never said to myself, oh what a great play by MDA. Nevr heard MDA say, we're trying to get x player going so we set some plays for him. Thats a problem.

    As for defense. (much like his offense) he can coach it but there are details of defense that I feel he doesnt coach. I dont think he coaches man to man defense. Watch us play the Bulls I saw Kyle Korver play is ass off on defense. His defensive stance and technique were so sound that game. He guarded our players well.

    MDA knows basketball. He has an NBA mind be not a championship one. At least not yet.

    Im not a fan if firing coaches unless there are coaches ready and available to replace MDA. Thats why I may dissent on teh firing of MDA. Statbility is key. I dont wantto fire MDA now and have some interim coach only to change a year later.

    My 2 cents.

  10. #55
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Like fruit?



    How about those apples?!?
    As a youtube personality would say "Troof Chasers."

    Where'd that article come from? I wanna link it to someone.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Not because it (the article) presents any interesting discussion points.
    There are high pick-and-rolls. There's Amare Stoudemire coming from the corner, getting the ball near the elbow, with everyone and their grandmother knowing that's exactly what is going to occur. Or there's Stoudemire coming from the low block to set screens -- except everyone knows he's getting the ball and that he's not going to set a screen.


    After having read and enjoyed your posts and opinions for a long while now, I'm sure you can add something of interest to this. If this isn't a discussion point regarding D'Antoni's approach, I don't know what is.

    You say you watch with your father, right? I bet the 2 of you have had a discussion about the lack of creativity, or the monotony that D'antoni brings to Amar'e's role offensively.

    Discuss that.

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    As a youtube personality would say "Troof Chasers."

    Where'd that article come from? I wanna link it to someone.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  13. #58
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s

    After having read and enjoyed your posts and opinions for a long while now, I'm sure you can add something of interest to this. If this isn't a discussion point regarding D'Antoni's approach, I don't know what is.

    You say you watch with your father, right? I bet the 2 of you have had a discussion about the lack of creativity, or the monotony that D'antoni brings to Amar'e's role offensively.

    Discuss that.
    I could have told you that...After watching basically all 86 games this team has played this season, I known the shtick...Amare frequently catches the ball around the top of the free throw arch, that's the go to play for Amar'e, giving him the option to put it up if his man sags or get to the hole if his man over plays him.

    I could see that a week in to the season, it's nothing new...but it's a problem now. Why? Because Amar'e didn't hit his jumpers. But nobody was saying peep about this lack of creativity when Amar'e had his jumpers fall more consistently for 30 points nightly....
    Last edited by KBlack25; Apr 26, 2011 at 11:42.

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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    You know. I still dont know this team. There hasnt been a game where Melo and STAT have clicked. Game by game one player takes over or is the focal point. Before Melo there were definite roles. You know where everyone is supposed to be. This current team still has no offensive identity. They're just winging it.

    I hate hearing about this "system". The "system" in theory works but he I dont think MDA has a hands on approach to the offense.

    I mean every coach has a system. They all expect the players to run that systema certain way. But sometimes the system may stall (defense figured it out, player struggling etc.) This is where I feel MDA fails. I have never said to myself, oh what a great play by MDA. Nevr heard MDA say, we're trying to get x player going so we set some plays for him. Thats a problem.

    As for defense. (much like his offense) he can coach it but there are details of defense that I feel he doesnt coach. I dont think he coaches man to man defense. Watch us play the Bulls I saw Kyle Korver play is ass off on defense. His defensive stance and technique were so sound that game. He guarded our players well.

    MDA knows basketball. He has an NBA mind be not a championship one. At least not yet.

    Im not a fan if firing coaches unless there are coaches ready and available to replace MDA. Thats why I may dissent on teh firing of MDA. Statbility is key. I dont wantto fire MDA now and have some interim coach only to change a year later.

    My 2 cents.
    I'm glad you noticed this.

    It took MIA a long time to get some continuity, I think this offseason will be good for Carmelo and STAT IF they dedicate themselves to learning how to play together. We blew this team up and brought in all new personnel, it wasn't going to click immediately, especially v. a Celtics team that has been running like a machine the last 4 years.

    I think the most important thing is MDA needs to challenge STAT and Carmelo - whoever wins the title, he (or any head coach) has to make it clear that the team who won the championship (Celtics, Lakers, Miami, Chicago, whomever), has OUR title. Challenge Carmelo: tell him everyone says LeBron is better (or Rose, or Kobe)...ask if he believes that...and tell Carmelo it's on him to prove everyone wrong.

    If MDA can communicate to STAT and Melo they should be out for blood, like cold assassins we can beat anyone, the two of them are as talented as any duo on in the league save for maybe James/Wade and Kobe/Gasol. I believe this is what MDA communicated (or someone on that bench communicated) to those 2 during that amazing Miami game.

    Lacking urgency is the biggest issue, that's our inability to close games - it seemed like we were playing not to lose as opposed to playing to try and shut a team out. If MDA can't bring that - then he deserves to go. If Melo and STAT say privately, to Dolan and Walsh (not via a representative, not via "an anonymous source" in the media), they say it THEMSELVES, that they don't believe in MDA, then he should go.

    More important than any scheme is the players' willingness to buy in, and in our situation, its whether STAT, Melo and (to a lesser extent) Billups buy in. If they do not, then find someone they do believe in.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    I could have told you that...After watching basically all 86 games this team has played this season, I known the shtick...Amare frequently catches the ball around the top of the free throw arch, that's the go to play for Amar'e, giving him the option to put it up if his man sags or get to the hole if his man over plays him.

    I could see that a week in to the season, it's nothing new...but it's a problem now. Why? Because Amar'e didn't hit his jumpers. But nobody was saying peep about this lack of creativity when Amar'e had his jumpers fall more consistently for 30 points nightly....
    Not true!

    Knowledgeable fans of the game, while happy for progress and a win, were not satisfied with a 120 to 118 score...

    Because of what those Stats actually indicated.

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