Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 117

Thread: There's No Defense For Mike D'Antoni.

  1. #61
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,668
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by Red
    Not true!

    Knowledgeable fans of the game, while happy for progress and a win, were not satisfied with a 120 to 118 score...

    Because of what those Stats actually indicated.
    When STAT was dropping 30 points per game you weren't around here complaining...

  2. #62
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,308
    Rep Power
    15

    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    I'm glad you noticed this.

    It took MIA a long time to get some continuity, I think this offseason will be good for Carmelo and STAT IF they dedicate themselves to learning how to play together. We blew this team up and brought in all new personnel, it wasn't going to click immediately, especially v. a Celtics team that has been running like a machine the last 4 years.

    I think the most important thing is MDA needs to challenge STAT and Carmelo - whoever wins the title, he (or any head coach) has to make it clear that the team who won the championship (Celtics, Lakers, Miami, Chicago, whomever), has OUR title. Challenge Carmelo: tell him everyone says LeBron is better (or Rose, or Kobe)...ask if he believes that...and tell Carmelo it's on him to prove everyone wrong.

    If MDA can communicate to STAT and Melo they should be out for blood, like cold assassins we can beat anyone, the two of them are as talented as any duo on in the league save for maybe James/Wade and Kobe/Gasol. I believe this is what MDA communicated (or someone on that bench communicated) to those 2 during that amazing Miami game.

    Lacking urgency is the biggest issue, that's our inability to close games - it seemed like we were playing not to lose as opposed to playing to try and shut a team out. If MDA can't bring that - then he deserves to go. If Melo and STAT say privately, to Dolan and Walsh (not via a representative, not via "an anonymous source" in the media), they say it THEMSELVES, that they don't believe in MDA, then he should go.

    More important than any scheme is the players' willingness to buy in, and in our situation, its whether STAT, Melo and (to a lesser extent) Billups buy in. If they do not, then find someone they do believe in.
    Yeah sounds good.

    Lacking DEFENSE is one of our biggest issues!

    Are you a knowledgable fan, or a casual one?

  3. #63
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,308
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    When STAT was dropping 30 points per game you weren't around here complaining...
    Actually I was. Then I chilled and gave te benefit of the doubt.

    I'll take Stat avg.'ing 10 points per if our team defense was top 10. Believe that.

    Smh at you stating Amare dropping 30 as some sort of anectdote.

    I guess the D'Antoni brainwash iis ingrained in you...smh

  4. #64
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,668
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by Red
    Actually I was. Then I chilled and gave te benefit of the doubt.

    I'll take Stat avg.'ing 10 points per if our team defense was top 10. Believe that.

    Smh at you stating Amare dropping 30 as some sort of anectdote.

    I guess the D'Antoni brainwash iis ingrained in you...smh
    If STAT is averaging 10 points per game then we are paying Max money to a marginal player...

  5. #65
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,308
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    If STAT is averaging 10 points per game then we are paying Max money to a marginal player...
    I could care less how much we are paying anyone. Its not my money.

    And I don't hear you saying anything about D'Antoni being the highest paid. Wonder why?

    Besides our ENTIRE payroll comes with the expectations of winning and competing. It matters NOT how we do it, or who performs to what standard...

    The ends justify the means. In this case (Mike) we are being short changed.

  6. #66
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,668
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by Red
    I could care less how much we are paying anyone. Its not my money.

    And I don't hear you saying anything about D'Antoni being the highest paid. Wonder why?

    Besides our ENTIRE payroll comes with the expectations of winning and competing. It matters NOT how we do it, or who performs to what standard...

    The ends justify the means. In this case (Mike) we are being short changed.
    You could care less? So that means you care a little?

    Look, there's a salary cap...bad contracts for underperforming guys severely hurt a teams chances of evening out a roster.

    See:

    Curry, Eddy
    Lewis, Rashard
    Arenas, Gilbert
    Carter, Vince

  7. #67
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,308
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    You could care less? So that means you care a little?

    Look, there's a salary cap...bad contracts for underperforming guys severely hurt a teams chances of evening out a roster.

    See:

    Curry, Eddy
    Lewis, Rashard
    Arenas, Gilbert
    Carter, Vince
    I think you know what I mean.

    Just realize your stance on Mike is weak and unwarranted. We won't crucify you for adjusting your opinion. Its ok we understand.

    You gave it a try it didn't work, now you realize we can't afford to make the same mistakes going forward. After all we do have $185 spent on two players. If that's what you care about.

  8. #68
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,668
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by Red
    I think you know what I mean.

    Just realize your stance on Mike is weak and unwarranted. We won't crucify you for adjusting your opinion. Its ok we understand.

    You gave it a try it didn't work, now you realize we can't afford to make the same mistakes going forward. After all we do have $185 spent on two players. If that's what you care about.
    My stance has nothing to do with Mike and everything to do with NBA coaching/players in general.

    As I said earlier, if the three main players don't buy into the system or don't respect the coach then he needs to go. More important than anything is whether or not players buy into/believe in the system. If there is MDA-related-dissension in the ranks, he needs to go.

  9. #69
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,758
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    If STAT is averaging 10 points per game then we are paying Max money to a marginal player...
    .. and we wouldn't win even w a top ten defense.

  10. #70
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    3,529
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by Red
    Knowledgeable fans of the game, while happy for progress and a win, were not satisfied with a 120 to 118 score...

    Because of what those Stats actually indicated.
    This is so true. I remember not being totally happy with certain wins and indicating to my friend that it wouldn't translate into playoff basketball wins.

  11. #71
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    653
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Steven a Smith was on with BT. What he says makes sense.

    Here is SAS in a nutshell by MDA (my one sentence summary):

    Its not that MDA is a bad coach, he just won't do the things to become a better one.

    MDA did go through a lot. Any compassionate human being would want to give MDA stability and to se what he's about with one full year witha a solid core.

    The problem is we haven't seen any glimmer of coaching moxy from D'antoni.

    Here's an analogy:

    Danilo Gallinari was abig topic here with Knicks fans: Would he be really good or just below average.

    Gallo in his early stages showed that he can be a good play or a great piece to a winning team. His desire to be the best was there. Always wanted to guard the best player. Not the most adequate defender but always tried. His was a good teammate.

    Knicks fans saw something.

    In MDA, there was nothing the past 3 years that showed he did something special.

  12. #72
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,308
    Rep Power
    15

    Default ok i'll go with th speculation

    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    .. and we wouldn't win even w a top ten defense.
    But I gaurentee we WOULDN'T HAVE lost in the fashion we did.

    Nothings a lock in terms of how far one can go- but the fact remains defensive teams go further. Indesputable.

    Recall how Love dropped 30 & 30 on us
    Recall how Hansbourough (spelling) killed us... twice
    Or how 3rd tier teams were made to look like contenders against us
    Or how many times we were forced to comeback from 20 point deficits


    And you want to sell me on the roster? The roster... really?

    Wow. That's why we chucked 7 threes in a row or had to come back from 16 down... because of the roster..smh

    At the very least not only would we not still be clammoring for almost impossible pieces, but we would have actually been competitive.

  13. #73
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    日本
    Posts
    6,488
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    I could have told you that...After watching basically all 86 games this team has played this season, I known the shtick...Amare frequently catches the ball around the top of the free throw arch, that's the go to play for Amar'e, giving him the option to put it up if his man sags or get to the hole if his man over plays him.

    I could see that a week in to the season, it's nothing new...but it's a problem now. Why? Because Amar'e didn't hit his jumpers. But nobody was saying peep about this lack of creativity when Amar'e had his jumpers fall more consistently for 30 points nightly....
    Not nobody. I've had my gripes with it all year.

    I never said anything about Amar'e's jumpers falling. Thanks for the lack of effort.

  14. #74
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    7,206
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Heres an article on coments made by Knicks players

    here are the quotes for those who don't want to click the link:

    "It is not easy to call for the exodus of a coach who averaged 58 wins a season in his previous job, who is as kind and decent as they come. Nor does it seem fair to call for the head of a coach who, some would say, helped resurrect this franchise and made the Knicks relevant again. But when players are devoid of respect for a coach's basketball acumen, when the opposition laughs over the transparency of his game plan -- so much so that D'Antoni's players intimated they had instituted their own changes at halftime of a close-out game -- the need for a change simply cannot be denied.

    The rare display of heart and guts the Knicks exhibited in the second half of Sunday's Game 4 didn't happen just because they started hitting shots and the Celtics suddenly forgot how to defend them. "We got tired of the way things were going," one player explained in the wee hours of Sunday night, long after everyone had departed from the Garden.

    "We walked in at halftime and said 'We can't go out this way.' We were pretty ticked off, especially at us not seeming to have any answers scheme-wise. We knew Boston knew everything we were going to do, how we were going to do it, so we needed to do something differently. We just couldn't keep going the way we were going."

    "Coach knows offense," one player explained. "It would be nice to set plays, control pace and not jack up shots just because you're open. But that's what Coach does. You could live with it if we played defense. But obviously, we haven't done that much. Good, bad or otherwise, all I can say is that I've never seen anything like this."

  15. #75
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,463
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Jordan Schultz
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Become a fan of this reporter
    GET UPDATES FROM Jordan
    Like

    14
    Why The Knicks' Mike D'Antoni Needs To Be Fired


    First Posted: 04/25/11 03:58 PM ET Updated: 04/25/11 04:52 PM ET
    React

    Inspiring
    Funny
    Typical
    Scary
    Outrageous
    Amazing
    Infuriating
    Extreme
    Read more

    2011 Nba Playoffs , 2011-Nba-Lockout , Amare Stoudemire , Celtics Knicks , Chauncey Billups , Collective Bargaining Agreement , Donnie Walsh , Kevin Garnett , Knicks Celtics , Landry Fields , New York Knicks , Knicks , Mike-Dantoni , Mike-Dantoni-Knicks , Nba Playoffs , Nba Collective Bargaining Agreement , Nba Lockout , Nba Playoffs 2011 , Nba-Cba , Nba-Lockout-2011 , New Cba Nba , Poll , Sports News

    share this story

    38
    13
    4
    147
    Get Sports Alerts
    Sign Up
    Submit this story

    Mike D’Antoni has to go.

    There, I said it.

    The truth is D’Antoni is a nice guy who belongs as an assistant coach solely dedicated to designing fast break style and scheme. But, in a league where you simply cannot win without consistent defense, D’Antoni’s time as a head coach has come and gone.

    The Knicks just don’t know how to win, which, of course, is a direct reflection of the head coach. D’Antoni’s coaching style of “we’re going to do everything possible to push tempo and outscore you” is a fun system that produces excitement and some regular season wins. His teams consistently rank at the top of the league in points scored and at the bottom in points allowed (28th this season and dead last in 2009-2010 when they gave up 107.8).

    But I can’t reiterate the downside of such a system enough. Winning playoff basketball is predicated off of half-court execution and defense. Boston -- as I predicted before the series began -- did not allow New York to run. The Celtics made the Knicks beat them in a slow game, which they couldn’t do. Better yet, the C’s did what every good club in the playoffs has always done to D’Antoni teams … make them play defense.

    To be fair, not all of the onus falls on him. Despite the uber-gifted duo of Amar’e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, the Knicks’ roster is full of holes. As great as he’s been, Stoudemire has been playing out of position all season as a center.

    Anthony meanwhile is a superior talent but still, eight years into his career, not an actual superstar. Debate it all you want, but he's just not.
    Advertisement


    Lastly, Chauncey Billups -- at 34 years old -- is not the right man to direct this offense. He doesn’t have the sheer speed of Raymond Felton and thus could not lead the transition game as effectively. Moreover, it’s very challenging to bring a team together after infusing such egos and talent midway through the season. There are a lot of moving parts for a team still searching to find the right balance of top heavy talent and ancillary parts.

    But that’s where it stops. D’Antoni still had plenty of opportunities to will his team to wins against Boston.

    Game One was an abomination. New York held a double-digit lead for much of the game, yet somehow seemed shell-shocked when Boston made its run. Memo to the Knicks: This is the NBA … everyone, especially a team like the Celtics, can make a run. You have to take the punches and fight back. The Knicks though -- lacking the winning framework its head coach -- rolled over like a hot batch of Pillsbury dough.

    As bad as that was, nothing was worse than Game 2.

    Despite the absence of Stoudemire and Billups, New York once again outplayed Boston for much of the night. Anthony was brilliant, scoring 42 points and grabbing 17 rebounds. But, as always in crucial games, D’Antoni’s team folded.

    First off -- and this goes for the entire series but especially Game 2 -- where in the world was Landry Fields, playing just 15 minutes?

    D’Antoni instead turned to the ice cold Roger Mason, Jr. along with Jared Jeffries and Bill Walker. But why? Mason hasn’t made a jumper all season nor has he played any significant minutes. Jeffries -- whom D’Antoni made it a point to acquire in late February after buying out the defensively minded Corey Brewer -- is a good defender but awful offensively. Walker is a long-range chucker and perhaps the worst defender on the league’s worst defensive team.

    Fields could have very well made the difference in that game, and would have helped the whole series. A capable scorer, the rookie was also the best rebounding guard in the entire NBA. Without him, the Knicks may have missed the playoffs altogether, yet when push came to shove, D’Antoni went with Mason, who shot under 39 percent for the series and was a marginal defender at best.

    Better yet, why was Jeffries in the game that final possession? Perhaps D’Antoni can make the case for using Mason as an extra shooter to spread the floor, but Jeffries is one of the league’s worst offensive players. His turnover attempting to pass to a wide open Walker was terrible for sure, but in reality ... he had no business being in the game.

    In addition to his inability to manage his substitutions and rotation, D’Antoni also hampered the Knicks’ by not making the necessary in-game tactical adjustments. He burned all of his timeouts way too early each of the first two games and inexcusably didn’t prepare his team for the famed Kevin Garnett alley-oop lob in Game One.

    When Garnett posted up Jeffries to give Boston the lead in Game 2, he absolutely had to send the double-team. Case in point: Carmelo had 42 in that game, but he couldn’t even get a shot off after his three-pointer put New York up three with 2:35 remaining. Doc Rivers -- by sending constant double-teams at Melo -- forced someone else to beat them. D’Antoni meanwhile let Garnett body Jeffries into the paint for five seconds before draining the pivotal jump hook.

    Many people will also point to Carmelo’s refusal to foul Delonte West on the ensuing Celtics possession following Jeffries’ mishap. Once again, let’s be fair: This is two-sided. Melo had to know he needed to commit that foul -- that is just basketball 101. The 9th graders I coach know to make that foul. But then again, why was he even in the game to begin with?

    Anthony had five fouls. He shouldn’t have been anywhere guarding the backcourt. That responsibility should have gone to someone else.

    Games 3 and 4 were much of the same. The Knicks -- who shot a woeful 40.6 percent during the sweep -- looked uninspired and unprepared; like they knew the series was already over.

    This has been a constant theme with D’Antoni coached teams before. Can you recall any key playoff win by his Phoenix teams? Despite an array of talent: an MVP in his prime, Steve Nash; young and healthy star, Amar’e; NBA Sixth Man award winner, Leandro Barbosa; All-NBA defender, Raja Bell; and guys like Joe Johnson and Boris Diaw – D’Antoni never once took his teams to The Finals.

    With the threat of the lockout looming, Walsh could very well keep D’Antoni for one more year to avoid the dreaded buy-out. The 59-year-old coach will make $6 million next season, his last under contract with New York.

    The Knicks don't have the good fortune of waiting though. Anthony and Stoudemire are both at the point in their careers where if either one of them are ever going to win, it has be now. Chris Paul and Deron Williams -- the two elite point guards in the league -- are free agents after next season, as is the NBA’s premier center, Dwight Howard. Next season’s performance is crucial for a franchise desperately trying to lure one of these three players and create its own version of “The Big Three,” which is all the reason more to fire Mike D’Antoni.

    Cant sleep. Figured I'd share this with you guys. If it was already posted, my bad...

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 24
    Last Post: Dec 03, 2010, 22:38
  2. Replies: 28
    Last Post: Jul 16, 2010, 10:37
  3. Lets Take A Deeper Look
    By nyk_nyk in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Mar 26, 2010, 14:38
  4. Van Gundy on D'antoni
    By Blumatic in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Mar 08, 2010, 12:15
  5. SSOL: Reality and Abberation
    By TunerAddict in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: Nov 13, 2009, 16:32

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •