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Thread: There's No Defense For Mike D'Antoni.

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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
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    Why The Knicks' Mike D'Antoni Needs To Be Fired


    First Posted: 04/25/11 03:58 PM ET Updated: 04/25/11 04:52 PM ET
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    Mike D’Antoni has to go.

    There, I said it.

    The truth is D’Antoni is a nice guy who belongs as an assistant coach solely dedicated to designing fast break style and scheme. But, in a league where you simply cannot win without consistent defense, D’Antoni’s time as a head coach has come and gone.

    The Knicks just don’t know how to win, which, of course, is a direct reflection of the head coach. D’Antoni’s coaching style of “we’re going to do everything possible to push tempo and outscore you” is a fun system that produces excitement and some regular season wins. His teams consistently rank at the top of the league in points scored and at the bottom in points allowed (28th this season and dead last in 2009-2010 when they gave up 107.8).

    But I can’t reiterate the downside of such a system enough. Winning playoff basketball is predicated off of half-court execution and defense. Boston -- as I predicted before the series began -- did not allow New York to run. The Celtics made the Knicks beat them in a slow game, which they couldn’t do. Better yet, the C’s did what every good club in the playoffs has always done to D’Antoni teams … make them play defense.

    To be fair, not all of the onus falls on him. Despite the uber-gifted duo of Amar’e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, the Knicks’ roster is full of holes. As great as he’s been, Stoudemire has been playing out of position all season as a center.

    Anthony meanwhile is a superior talent but still, eight years into his career, not an actual superstar. Debate it all you want, but he's just not.
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    Lastly, Chauncey Billups -- at 34 years old -- is not the right man to direct this offense. He doesn’t have the sheer speed of Raymond Felton and thus could not lead the transition game as effectively. Moreover, it’s very challenging to bring a team together after infusing such egos and talent midway through the season. There are a lot of moving parts for a team still searching to find the right balance of top heavy talent and ancillary parts.

    But that’s where it stops. D’Antoni still had plenty of opportunities to will his team to wins against Boston.

    Game One was an abomination. New York held a double-digit lead for much of the game, yet somehow seemed shell-shocked when Boston made its run. Memo to the Knicks: This is the NBA … everyone, especially a team like the Celtics, can make a run. You have to take the punches and fight back. The Knicks though -- lacking the winning framework its head coach -- rolled over like a hot batch of Pillsbury dough.

    As bad as that was, nothing was worse than Game 2.

    Despite the absence of Stoudemire and Billups, New York once again outplayed Boston for much of the night. Anthony was brilliant, scoring 42 points and grabbing 17 rebounds. But, as always in crucial games, D’Antoni’s team folded.

    First off -- and this goes for the entire series but especially Game 2 -- where in the world was Landry Fields, playing just 15 minutes?

    D’Antoni instead turned to the ice cold Roger Mason, Jr. along with Jared Jeffries and Bill Walker. But why? Mason hasn’t made a jumper all season nor has he played any significant minutes. Jeffries -- whom D’Antoni made it a point to acquire in late February after buying out the defensively minded Corey Brewer -- is a good defender but awful offensively. Walker is a long-range chucker and perhaps the worst defender on the league’s worst defensive team.

    Fields could have very well made the difference in that game, and would have helped the whole series. A capable scorer, the rookie was also the best rebounding guard in the entire NBA. Without him, the Knicks may have missed the playoffs altogether, yet when push came to shove, D’Antoni went with Mason, who shot under 39 percent for the series and was a marginal defender at best.

    Better yet, why was Jeffries in the game that final possession? Perhaps D’Antoni can make the case for using Mason as an extra shooter to spread the floor, but Jeffries is one of the league’s worst offensive players. His turnover attempting to pass to a wide open Walker was terrible for sure, but in reality ... he had no business being in the game.

    In addition to his inability to manage his substitutions and rotation, D’Antoni also hampered the Knicks’ by not making the necessary in-game tactical adjustments. He burned all of his timeouts way too early each of the first two games and inexcusably didn’t prepare his team for the famed Kevin Garnett alley-oop lob in Game One.

    When Garnett posted up Jeffries to give Boston the lead in Game 2, he absolutely had to send the double-team. Case in point: Carmelo had 42 in that game, but he couldn’t even get a shot off after his three-pointer put New York up three with 2:35 remaining. Doc Rivers -- by sending constant double-teams at Melo -- forced someone else to beat them. D’Antoni meanwhile let Garnett body Jeffries into the paint for five seconds before draining the pivotal jump hook.

    Many people will also point to Carmelo’s refusal to foul Delonte West on the ensuing Celtics possession following Jeffries’ mishap. Once again, let’s be fair: This is two-sided. Melo had to know he needed to commit that foul -- that is just basketball 101. The 9th graders I coach know to make that foul. But then again, why was he even in the game to begin with?

    Anthony had five fouls. He shouldn’t have been anywhere guarding the backcourt. That responsibility should have gone to someone else.

    Games 3 and 4 were much of the same. The Knicks -- who shot a woeful 40.6 percent during the sweep -- looked uninspired and unprepared; like they knew the series was already over.

    This has been a constant theme with D’Antoni coached teams before. Can you recall any key playoff win by his Phoenix teams? Despite an array of talent: an MVP in his prime, Steve Nash; young and healthy star, Amar’e; NBA Sixth Man award winner, Leandro Barbosa; All-NBA defender, Raja Bell; and guys like Joe Johnson and Boris Diaw – D’Antoni never once took his teams to The Finals.

    With the threat of the lockout looming, Walsh could very well keep D’Antoni for one more year to avoid the dreaded buy-out. The 59-year-old coach will make $6 million next season, his last under contract with New York.

    The Knicks don't have the good fortune of waiting though. Anthony and Stoudemire are both at the point in their careers where if either one of them are ever going to win, it has be now. Chris Paul and Deron Williams -- the two elite point guards in the league -- are free agents after next season, as is the NBA’s premier center, Dwight Howard. Next season’s performance is crucial for a franchise desperately trying to lure one of these three players and create its own version of “The Big Three,” which is all the reason more to fire Mike D’Antoni.

    Cant sleep. Figured I'd share this with you guys. If it was already posted, my bad...
    + A HEALTHY Amar'e DIDN'T get the rock in seven possessions down the stretch in game one! You know- the one where we had a double digit lead- where all of our squad was healthy (so as to thwart any excuse makers nonsense)... REMEMBER?

    WONDER who decided that? Wasn't Amar'e killin' em'?

    7 crucial possessions? More threes taken than Amar'e (healthy) had shots? Who decided that?


    Great article! Keep em' coming! We must see this guy out...


    BTW...

    FIELDS AVG 1.7 POINTS IN THIS SERIES... 1 POINT MOTHERF*CKING 7 POINTS. He was on the down turn long before we got there. I guess it costs >$6mil for proper adjustments. Smh.

  2. #77
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    Media

    Gonna be a long off-season

    But what if one of Dolan's players, a popular one at that, voices a dissenting opinion?

    On Monday, Carmelo Anthony was asked every which way to endorse D'Antoni and he answered the questions like a senator caught in a love triangle.

    Melo was evasive and non-committal, which was apparently enough to fool some in the media that Dolan's new favorite player believes the Knicks have the right head coach. In fact, the exact opposite is true. According to a person close to Anthony, the player D'Antoni wasn't thrilled about acquiring, is far from convinced that D'Antoni's system is the right fit for his game.

    And when Chauncey Billups comes out and says there is no perfect coach and happens to mention that Larry Brown - D'Antoni's polar opposite and Dolan's sworn enemy - is his all-time favorite, I think it's safe to assume that the veteran point guard isn't reading "Seven Seconds or Less" in his spare time.

    But I think D'Antoni lives to see another day. With the pending lockout, the Knicks may not want to risk paying two coaches when there may not be any games next season.

    Plus, D'Antoni has something neither Brown nor another Hall of Fame coach, Lenny Wilkens, enjoyed during their brief runs in New York: a patient boss.

    If you're a coach, you want to work for Donnie Walsh.

    Walsh let D'Antoni hire his staff. He doesn't meddle in playing time. And he is patient. Almost to a fault.

    This theory that D'Antoni hasn't been given a fair shake is misleading. D'Antoni is now eighth among Knick head coaches in games. He's coached more games than Brown, Wilkens and Don Nelson combined. Those three have a combined winning percentage of .437 as Knick head coach. D'Antoni's winning percentage is .419.

    Wilkens was 40-41 and kept the Knicks competitive despite a major February trade. The Knicks went 14-18 after acquiring Anthony from Denver. Wilkens coached Stephon Marbury. D'Antoni has Amar'e Stoudemire, Carmelo and Chauncey.

    D'Antoni has had players. He's had time. Have the conditions been ideal? Welcome to New York.

    If D'Antoni wants the job beyond next season (which he may not) he needs to coach defense, have his team better prepared and hold all of his players accountable.

    Oh yeah, he also better start winning.

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    Default I don't think the winning % call is a fair one.

    Originally Posted by Red
    Gonna be a long off-season



    NYdailynews.com

    This theory that D'Antoni hasn't been given a fair shake is misleading. D'Antoni is now eighth among Knick head coaches in games. He's coached more games than Brown, Wilkens and Don Nelson combined. Those three have a combined winning percentage of .437 as Knick head coach. D'Antoni's winning percentage is .419.
    You have to admit that his first 2 years were throw aways.

    You could also easily say that we should have won 10-15 more games than we did this year, too, but that's, IMO, a 70/30 split: MD/players.

    Some will disagree with that 70/30 split, but I don't think they can deny that our game closing strategies/plays/capability are among the league's worst on both ends of the floor.

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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    You have to admit that his first 2 years were throw aways.

    You could also easily say that we should have won 10-15 more games than we did this year, too, but that's, IMO, a 70/30 split: MD/players.

    Some will disagree with that 70/30 split, but I don't think they can deny that our game closing strategies/plays/capability are among the league's worst on both ends of the floor.
    Throw aways?

    I can't research right now, but do you recall the 8th seed's records in the East the past two seasons? I'd bet they were losing record teams if not close to.

    Recall when we finally started using Larry Hughes and won a few straight and then he was Dnp'd-cd? How about all the other DNP-CD'S? Recall? If I werea betting man, i'd say Mike was purposely tanking games.

    But then again we had no pick to tank for... so how do you explain that?

    I love how some (not necessarily you) point to a "changing roster" as some sort of excuse... as if when he gets a stable roster those decisions won't be made.

    Guess what? The trade dead-line COMES EVERY YEAR- FOR EVERY TEAM & EVERY COACH!!!!!!

    THERE WILL always be the possibilities for player movement, and the fact that as a coach he has experienced this MANY times, that excuse about roster movement is garbage- hold no water- bupkis!!!

    As if we can't analyze his abilities until such minute conditions exist. Please.

    A healthy, stable (just won 7 in a row before the last 2 throw away games), team with a lead on the road, riding the double x2 dominate performance of Stat, neglected to get him the ball seven times and blew the most important game in a decade...

    And you got nerve to give me an excuse? After as you say we endured two "throw away" years- you actually explain that without mentioning the coach? Please!

    Every excuse has been debunked. For every player injury, flux, roster theory you offer, there are a myriad of examples of why that explains nothing as much as "he just isn't that good" does!


    REDUCE THE EXCUSE!

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    But I gaurentee we WOULDN'T HAVE lost in the fashion we did.

    Nothings a lock in terms of how far one can go- but the fact remains defensive teams go further. Indesputable.

    Recall how Love dropped 30 & 30 on us
    Recall how Hansbourough (spelling) killed us... twice
    Or how 3rd tier teams were made to look like contenders against us
    Or how many times we were forced to comeback from 20 point deficits


    And you want to sell me on the roster? The roster... really?

    Wow. That's why we chucked 7 threes in a row or had to come back from 16 down... because of the roster..smh

    At the very least not only would we not still be clammoring for almost impossible pieces, but we would have actually been competitive.
    You call it speculation but I call it knowing the game of basketball and what you can and can't get away w. That comment rung true on it's face right?

    I hear all of you guys that disagree w the basic principles within the system.

    I agree that you need certain players to make it work really well, which is a shortcoming in a sense but then again most coaches need and covet certain guys to run their stuff. I also agree that scoring from outside-in goes against basic fundamentals that are time tested. <This to me is indisputable.

    However after having studied this system closely and seeing it work well over the years, I have to admit, inspite of the above, I'm a fan of it. I like it. I believe, firmly, that w the right execution, by the right players, it can work properly and be devastatingly effective.

    Next, I don't know what all of the fuss is about. Remember - our only stated goal for the season was to make the playoffs. It's not like we were going to win a championship this year. I didn't see us getting upset like the Spurs. It wasn't perfect, but in my IMHO, this coach did the best he could w what he had, all year.

    I'm all for giving MDA another shot.. I want to see what he can do w a full training camp w Melo, Amare and Co.

    If we start the season w the same inconsistency on defense, or if the offense isn't clicking properly, I'll really start to question this coach. I also agree w kblack in that if Melo and Amare aren't on the same page w MDA, he needs to go. I'd also really, really like to see MDA get another assistant who can teach proper defense. It's clear no one on this staff can accomplish this.

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    You call it speculation but I call it knowing the game of basketball and what you can and can't get away w. That comment rung true on it's face right?

    I hear all of you guys that disagree w the basic principles within the system.

    I agree that you need certain players to make it work really well, which is a shortcoming in a sense but then again most coaches need and covet certain guys to run their stuff. I also agree that scoring from outside-in goes against basic fundamentals that are time tested. <This to me is indisputable.

    However after having studied this system closely and seeing it work well over the years, I have to admit, inspite of the above, I'm a fan of it. I like it. I believe, firmly, that w the right execution, by the right players, it can work properly and be devastatingly effective.

    Next, I don't know what all of the fuss is about. Remember - our only stated goal for the season was to make the playoffs. It's not like we were going to win a championship this year. I didn't see us getting upset like the Spurs. It wasn't perfect, but in my IMHO, this coach did the best he could w what he had, all year.

    I'm all for giving MDA another shot.. I want to see what he can do w a full training camp w Melo, Amare and Co.

    If we start the season w the same inconsistency on defense, or if the offense isn't clicking properly, I'll really start to question this coach. I also agree w kblack in that if Melo and Amare aren't on the same page w MDA, he needs to go. I'd also really, really like to see MDA get another assistant who can teach proper defense. It's clear no one on this staff can accomplish this.
    Wake up Ron!

    And when Chauncey Billups comes out and says there is no perfect coach and happens to mention that Larry Brown - D'Antoni's polar opposite and Dolan's sworn enemy - is his all-time favorite, I think it's safe to assume that the veteran point guard isn't reading "Seven Seconds or Less" in his spare time.
    If you refuse to accept the truth, I can't help you.

    If as you say you studied then you must have noticed:
    1. The offense is tops the defensive is the worst

    2. The approach goes against conventional wisdom

    3. The players needed canot be relied upon to get for two major reasons: *they don't exist *D'Antoni's idea of talent are those who fit his flawed sytem- the same players who ranked 28th to 15th in the leaguse in defense

    4. He had TONS OF BETTERPLAYERS IN PHX with no flux, and FAILED!!!!!!! IN THE SAME MANNER....FAILED!!!!


    Please read above posts before rehashing the same tired, boring argument and lame excuses. For the last time your excuses don't explain why keeping D'Antoni is such a good idea. They don't.

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    You call it speculation but I call it knowing the game of basketball and what you can and can't get away w. That comment rung true on it's face right?

    I hear all of you guys that disagree w the basic principles within the system.

    I agree that you need certain players to make it work really well, which is a shortcoming in a sense but then again most coaches need and covet certain guys to run their stuff. I also agree that scoring from outside-in goes against basic fundamentals that are time tested. <This to me is indisputable.

    However after having studied this system closely and seeing it work well over the years, I have to admit, inspite of the above, I'm a fan of it. I like it. I believe, firmly, that w the right execution, by the right players, it can work properly and be devastatingly effective.

    Next, I don't know what all of the fuss is about. Remember - our only stated goal for the season was to make the playoffs. It's not like we were going to win a championship this year. I didn't see us getting upset like the Spurs. It wasn't perfect, but in my IMHO, this coach did the best he could w what he had, all year.

    I'm all for giving MDA another shot.. I want to see what he can do w a full training camp w Melo, Amare and Co.

    If we start the season w the same inconsistency on defense, or if the offense isn't clicking properly, I'll really start to question this coach. I also agree w kblack in that if Melo and Amare aren't on the same page w MDA, he needs to go. I'd also really, really like to see MDA get another assistant who can teach proper defense. It's clear no one on this staff can accomplish this.
    I would understand if MDA had won a championship or two already, but to imply that he'll only be successful if he has the "right players" for his "system" tells me that he will always maintain a very small margin for error. Because defense isn't highly stressed, his offense has to be clicking on all cylinders at all times to off-set the defensive liabilities.
     
    For instance, if MDA were hired by a team 20 games into a season, chances are he would probably make the team worse until they traded for his type of players. A really good coach should be able to step into a situation and see why the pieces aren't working and make some adjustments. It may be motivation, putting players in different roles, changing the rotation etc...
     
    He needs his type of players (that's fine) but that also means that he doesn't have the ability to understand an entire roster and adjust when needed. His fault is that he doesn't know any other way and he's been around basketball for way too long to not have the ability to adjust. Red brought up a good point about how the team started peaking a bit with Hughes (mostly because of his defensive awareness) but then all of a sudden decided to DNP-CD the guy. Anything other than his system looks foreign to him and therefore he can't see the value of it should it happen to actually work. MDA also DNP'd Carter when he showed how gritty he was on defense and he had the ability to play the PG role effectively. Once again, MDA went with his preference of "long range shooters" and sent Carter on the pine indefinitely. It wasn't until our elimination game a few days ago that MDA took another look at Carter and he played the same hard-nosed basketball from when we first acquired him (I wasn't surprised).
     
    There's no need to focus on MDA having a stable roster and a full training camp with Amare and Melo. The fundamentals of his approach will still be the same and that's what us anti-MDA posters are aware of.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    Wake up Ron!



    If you refuse to accept the truth, I can't help you.

    If as you say you studied then you must have noticed:
    1. The offense is tops the defensive is the worst

    2. The approach goes against conventional wisdom

    3. The players needed canot be relied upon to get for two major reasons: *they don't exist *D'Antoni's idea of talent are those who fit his flawed sytem- the same players who ranked 28th to 15th in the leaguse in defense

    4. He had TONS OF BETTERPLAYERS IN PHX with no flux, and FAILED!!!!!!! IN THE SAME MANNER....FAILED!!!!


    Please read above posts before rehashing the same tired, boring argument and lame excuses. For the last time your excuses don't explain why keeping D'Antoni is such a good idea. They don't.
    Didn't I just post that we need to bring in someone to direct the defense??? Isn't that acknowledging that we sucked basically. You know I'm aware of the statistics.

    Listen, I understand you don't like this coach, his approach. But we have better players now and more time to make everything meld. You think I need to wake up, but I've acknowledged his flaws and offered solutions. Really it is you that needs to settle down. Can you acknowledge anything this coach has done well?? IMO he's proven he can get results for this organization. I think we are on the right path. We'll have to agree to disagree, respectfully I guess.

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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    I would understand if MDA had won a championship or two already, but to imply that he'll only be successful if he has the "right players" for his "system" tells me that he will always maintain a very small margin for error. Because defense isn't highly stressed, his offense has to be clicking on all cylinders at all times to off-set the defensive liabilities.
     
    For instance, if MDA were hired by a team 20 games into a season, chances are he would probably make the team worse until they traded for his type of players. A really good coach should be able to step into a situation and see why the pieces aren't working and make some adjustments. It may be motivation, putting players in different roles, changing the rotation etc...
     
    He needs his type of players (that's fine) but that also means that he doesn't have the ability to understand an entire roster and adjust when needed. His fault is that he doesn't know any other way and he's been around basketball for way too long to not have the ability to adjust. Red brought up a good point about how the team started peaking a bit with Hughes (mostly because of his defensive awareness) but then all of a sudden decided to DNP-CD the guy. Anything other than his system looks foreign to him and therefore he can't see the value of it should it happen to actually work. MDA also DNP'd Carter when he showed how gritty he was on defense and he had the ability to play the PG role effectively. Once again, MDA went with his preference of "long range shooters" and sent Carter on the pine indefinitely. It wasn't until our elimination game a few days ago that MDA took another look at Carter and he played the same hard-nosed basketball from when we first acquired him (I wasn't surprised).
     
    There's no need to focus on MDA having a stable roster and a full training camp with Amare and Melo. The fundamentals of his approach will still be the same and that's what us anti-MDA posters are aware of.
    Dido.

    The same thing happened with Marbury and Robinson. If you can't get along fine, but who wants a coach who rather subvert the team due to his personal grudges?

    And logic would dictate when he first came that was his way of gaining respect (making the star player conform and be humbled), because who wants to fire a coach with $24mil remaining? But that was then. With 1 yr left the tables have turned.

    He put his personal feelings ABOVE THE TEAM!!!!! Same with Darko and Randolph! AR was DNP'D then went on to avg 20 & 10 for a stretch. Could they have at least helped?

    And some support this? Subversion of our team by the coach and you support this? How?

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    Default REDUCE THE EXCUSE VS Refrain from the mundane.

    Originally Posted by Red
    Throw aways?

    I can't research right now, but do you recall the 8th seed's records in the East the past two seasons? I'd bet they were losing record teams if not close to.

    Recall when we finally started using Larry Hughes and won a few straight and then he was Dnp'd-cd? How about all the other DNP-CD'S? Recall? If I werea betting man, i'd say Mike was purposely tanking games.

    But then again we had no pick to tank for... so how do you explain that?

    I love how some (not necessarily you) point to a "changing roster" as some sort of excuse... as if when he gets a stable roster those decisions won't be made.

    Guess what? The trade dead-line COMES EVERY YEAR- FOR EVERY TEAM & EVERY COACH!!!!!!

    THERE WILL always be the possibilities for player movement, and the fact that as a coach he has experienced this MANY times, that excuse about roster movement is garbage- hold no water- bupkis!!!

    As if we can't analyze his abilities until such minute conditions exist. Please.

    A healthy, stable (just won 7 in a row before the last 2 throw away games), team with a lead on the road, riding the double x2 dominate performance of Stat, neglected to get him the ball seven times and blew the most important game in a decade...

    And you got nerve to give me an excuse? After as you say we endured two "throw away" years- you actually explain that without mentioning the coach? Please!

    Every excuse has been debunked. For every player injury, flux, roster theory you offer, there are a myriad of examples of why that explains nothing as much as "he just isn't that good" does!


    REDUCE THE EXCUSE!
    Never said he did a superlative job, never said "he was that good". Quite the opposite. I never said his doghouse mentality wasn't/isn't ridiculous, I'm just saying that if MD's winning percentage were higher from his first 2 seasons, it would be an infinitesimally small margin considering the roster he had. 4 or 5 more wins? 6? 7?

    Whatever

    I have no interest in discussing anything D'Antoni, Knicks, or otherwise outside of this season and the following from here on out. It's pointless and disruptive to any topic regarding our future and its ticking clock.

    I want MD gone - but not in a cult like fervour such as your own - and that want is based on what I saw (cringed at) this season.

    Moving on.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    I would understand if MDA had won a championship or two already, but to imply that he'll only be successful if he has the "right players" for his "system" tells me that he will always maintain a very small margin for error. Because defense isn't highly stressed, his offense has to be clicking on all cylinders at all times to off-set the defensive liabilities.
     
    For instance, if MDA were hired by a team 20 games into a season, chances are he would probably make the team worse until they traded for his type of players. A really good coach should be able to step into a situation and see why the pieces aren't working and make some adjustments. It may be motivation, putting players in different roles, changing the rotation etc...
     
    He needs his type of players (that's fine) but that also means that he doesn't have the ability to understand an entire roster and adjust when needed. His fault is that he doesn't know any other way and he's been around basketball for way too long to not have the ability to adjust. Red brought up a good point about how the team started peaking a bit with Hughes (mostly because of his defensive awareness) but then all of a sudden decided to DNP-CD the guy. Anything other than his system looks foreign to him and therefore he can't see the value of it should it happen to actually work. MDA also DNP'd Carter when he showed how gritty he was on defense and he had the ability to play the PG role effectively. Once again, MDA went with his preference of "long range shooters" and sent Carter on the pine indefinitely. It wasn't until our elimination game a few days ago that MDA took another look at Carter and he played the same hard-nosed basketball from when we first acquired him (I wasn't surprised).
     
    There's no need to focus on MDA having a stable roster and a full training camp with Amare and Melo. The fundamentals of his approach will still be the same and that's what us anti-MDA posters are aware of.
    All of this is fair..

  12. #87
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    Lets see...

    Doc Rivers before he got 4 all stars? Considered universally as one of the worst coaches in the NBA.

    Doc Rivers after he got 4 all stars? Well I'm sure you know how this goes. He's now adored by everyone and the media drools all over him. Its funny how quickly everyone changes their minds.

    Great players make coaches seem like geniuses. We had bit pieces that were thrown together with 2 all stars after half the season was already over.

    Now I'm not saying Dantoni isn't without fault, but again.... I refuse to blame him for everything. He had a damn tough job and at the very least he was loyal to us through the bad times. I doubt changing coaches this last season would have changed us being ousted in the first round. After all.... we essentially got robbed by the refs in that first game.

    Not playing AR and putting players in the doghouse seems horrible from our viewpoint, but we don't know how the locker room really is. You don't see our guys complaining when we got rid of AR or poison like Marbury. From all accounts, AR pretty much was demanding plays and time without putting in the work. Darko is a lazy and dumb player, Nate is having trouble getting minutes, and Marbury is being..... Marbury in China. I actually approve of not giving in to a player's demands when they don't show they deserve it. Hell... Shawne Williams pretty much demonstrated that you can turn into a major player even after he didn't log any minutes in the beginning of the year.

    That said... I think there is a better coach who is available right now in Adelman and we should pursue him. You should always get the best available and right now Adelman is the best. Especially for a system with a strong PF and wingman. Think Sacramento with Amare replacing Webber. I hope we as fans at least give Dantoni some love if he comes back with another team. After all, no one can argue that he showed loyalty and hard work with our team.

  13. #88
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by iJoe
    Lets see...

    Doc Rivers before he got 4 all stars? Considered universally as one of the worst coaches in the NBA.

    Doc Rivers after he got 4 all stars? Well I'm sure you know how this goes. He's now adored by everyone and the media drools all over him. Its funny how quickly everyone changes their minds.

    Great players make coaches seem like geniuses. We had bit pieces that were thrown together with 2 all stars after half the season was already over.

    Now I'm not saying Dantoni isn't without fault, but again.... I refuse to blame him for everything. He had a damn tough job and at the very least he was loyal to us through the bad times. I doubt changing coaches this last season would have changed us being ousted in the first round. After all.... we essentially got robbed by the refs in that first game.

    Not playing AR and putting players in the doghouse seems horrible from our viewpoint, but we don't know how the locker room really is. You don't see our guys complaining when we got rid of AR or poison like Marbury. From all accounts, AR pretty much was demanding plays and time without putting in the work. Darko is a lazy and dumb player, Nate is having trouble getting minutes, and Marbury is being..... Marbury in China. I actually approve of not giving in to a player's demands when they don't show they deserve it. Hell... Shawne Williams pretty much demonstrated that you can turn into a major player even after he didn't log any minutes in the beginning of the year.

    That said... I think there is a better coach who is available right now in Adelman and we should pursue him. You should always get the best available and right now Adelman is the best. Especially for a system with a strong PF and wingman. Think Sacramento with Amare replacing Webber. I hope we as fans at least give Dantoni some love if he comes back with another team. After all, no one can argue that he showed loyalty and hard work with our team.
    Ummm....

    Doc Rivers was Coach of The Year in Orlando
    Has shown an ability to change and adapt
    Had no issues with having a defensive assistant at his side

    Roster allstars roster allstars roster allstars.... blah blah blah

    Let's see...

    So a double digit lead was blown AFTER COACH neglected to get Amar'e (AN ALLSTAR) the ball seven straight possessions down the stretch.

    While Melo (Another ALLSTAR) And Billups (A FORMER ALLSTAR) were perfecly healthy and STAT was eating Garnets lunch.

    Hummmmmm..... Allstars or Poor Coaching?

    Tell the truth....

  14. #89
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Ummm....

    Doc Rivers was Coach of The Year in Orlando
    Has shown an ability to change and adapt
    Had no issues with having a defensive assistant at his side

    Roster allstars roster allstars roster allstars.... blah blah blah

    Let's see...
    From before Doc got the Big 3 + Rondo:

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  15. #90
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    From before Doc got the Big 3 + Rondo:

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Lol.. None of these coaches really know what they're doing..

    Some, a select few, just know a little more how not to screw up so much. But they all make mistakes.

    The more great players you have the less you look like a know- nothing coach.

    Great players Red. It's about having more of them or better ones than the other idiot coach you're up against.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Apr 27, 2011 at 18:48.

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