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Thread: There's No Defense For Mike D'Antoni.

  1. #106
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Thibbs was there the year before they got their "big 3,"
    I stopped reading after this because it's clear you don't know what you are talking about:

    On July 31, 2007, Garnett was traded to the Boston Celtics in exchange for Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, cash considerations, Boston's 2009 first-round draft pick (top 3 protected) and the 2009 first-round pick Minnesota had traded to Boston in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade of 2006
    On August 30, 2007, Thibodeau was named associate head coach of the Boston Celtics,

  2. #107
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    I stopped reading after this because it's clear you don't know what you are talking about:
    Yep, it's readily apparent that because I thought Thibbs left the Rockets in 2006 as opposed to 2007...I have NO IDEA what I'm talking about when it comes to anything basketball.

    When are we gonna get over the "I've stopped reading your post because of the first two words in it" bull****?

    My mistake....Thibbs joined the C's after KG and Allen were acquired.

    Now would you mind answering the question I proposed in that post, or is your brain just permanently shut down when it comes to all of my posts because I thought an assistant coach joined a team a year earlier than he actually did.

    Edit: Call me crazy....but I think the real lack of knowledge is displayed when a person picks out an inconsequential incorrect detail and base their reason for ending the discussion on that. Why not correct the mistake (like you did) and then go on with your answer? Like I did, except I was wrong...which I can live with.
    Last edited by nuckles2k2; Apr 29, 2011 at 06:53.

  3. #108
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Yep, it's readily apparent that because I thought Thibbs left the Rockets in 2006 as opposed to 2007...I have NO IDEA what I'm talking about when it comes to anything basketball.

    When are we gonna get over the "I've stopped reading your post because of the first two words in it" bull****?

    My mistake....Thibbs joined the C's after KG and Allen were acquired.

    Now would you mind answering the question I proposed in that post, or is your brain just permanently shut down when it comes to all of my posts because I thought an assistant coach joined a team a year earlier than he actually did.

    Edit: Call me crazy....but I think the real lack of knowledge is displayed when a person picks out an inconsequential incorrect detail and base their reason for ending the discussion on that. Why not correct the mistake (like you did) and then go on with your answer? Like I did, except I was wrong...which I can live with.
    When you can't be bothered to do the research to verify certain easily verifiable facts - how am I supposed to take your opinion seriously? For all I know, your opinion is based on more skewed version of facts.

    You are the one who turned it into a Mike D'Antoni argument - All I said was I do not, and will not, understand the fascination with Doc Rivers...

    Doc Rivers stinks as an NBA coach.

    After watching him butcher my favorite team for 15 months and 134 games, I feel pretty comfortable making that assessment...

    s. And after 15 months of watching him coach, four words have emerged to describe any night in which the Celtics lost a winnable game only because of their coach: The Doc Rivers Special.

    For instance, my father attended Friday night's home defeat to the Hawks, who lack a passable NBA point guard and don't have a single rebounder on the team other than Zaza Pachulia. They should NEVER beat anyone decent on the road. So the Celts let them hang around for three quarters, then switched to zone in the fourth so the Hawks could shoot open 3s (they were 11-for-19 for the game)...

    What would happen if Doc Rivers coached the Lakers? He would be playing 11 guys, juggling rotations, urging Kobe to share the basketball, blowing close games, using an offense in which Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown were forced to make decisions in the high post, telling the press things like "We gotta cut down on the turnovers" ... and everyone would be miserable. Unfortunately for Doc, the L.A. Times has writers like Tim Brown and J.A. Adande covering the team -- they understand basketball and would see right through him. In Boston, where nobody understands or cares, Doc could linger...

    See, it's not that hard to coach an NBA team. You need nice suits. You need a voice. And you need to keep it simple. Doc Rivers only does two of the three. And that's why he needs to go.
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    From BEFORE the Celtics got their big 3, Rondo and Tom Thibodeau. By this same writer's admission Doc had no clue how to defend a high screen BEFORE Tom and KG showed up...

    I made no comment about MDA, only my lack of "getting" the fascination some people have with Doc Rivers - he isn't a good coach, he's got 3 players with veteran leadership, his title team had Thibbs aiding him at the helm.

    YOU are the one who wanted to turn this into an MDA argument, another part of the reason (besides your inability to look up facts), that your argument is ludicrous, unrelated, and not even worthy of a response. You skirt the Doc Rivers issue, my question posed here, to make it about MDA...for someone that hates him so much, you sure spend a lot of time bringing him up in response to arguments I don't mention him in. If someone could explain to me why they like Doc Rivers - then maybe I can debate that. Fact is he had 4 All Stars out there, we had Carmelo, half of Amare and a bench we severely depleted to get the former...I'm not entirely shocked we got swept.

  4. #109
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    When you can't be bothered to do the research to verify certain easily verifiable facts - how am I supposed to take your opinion seriously? For all I know, your opinion is based on more skewed version of facts.

    You are the one who turned it into a Mike D'Antoni argument - All I said was I do not, and will not, understand the fascination with Doc Rivers...



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    From BEFORE the Celtics got their big 3, Rondo and Tom Thibodeau. By this same writer's admission Doc had no clue how to defend a high screen BEFORE Tom and KG showed up...

    I made no comment about MDA, only my lack of "getting" the fascination some people have with Doc Rivers - he isn't a good coach, he's got 3 players with veteran leadership, his title team had Thibbs aiding him at the helm.

    YOU are the one who wanted to turn this into an MDA argument, another part of the reason (besides your inability to look up facts), that your argument is ludicrous, unrelated, and not even worthy of a response. You skirt the Doc Rivers issue, my question posed here, to make it about MDA...for someone that hates him so much, you sure spend a lot of time bringing him up in response to arguments I don't mention him in. If someone could explain to me why they like Doc Rivers - then maybe I can debate that. Fact is he had 4 All Stars out there, we had Carmelo, half of Amare and a bench we severely depleted to get the former...I'm not entirely shocked we got swept.
    Because he's demonstrated an ability to succeed where others have failed... including being able to curtail those "allstars" and their egos.

    One of which became an allstar during his watch.(Rondo)
    One other who was a borderine allstar on the decline.(Allen)
    And another who was a perennial allstar as well as a career post season underachiever. (Garnett)

    Do you think Doc is the only coach to have allstars? Do you think there are no successful coaches devoid of total allstar laden rosters as you intimate?

    The answer is no.

    Do the names Bell, Nash, Marion, Barbosa, Stat, and Shaq ring any bells. Those examples along with many others (Atl last year, Orl last few years, etc...)

    poke holes in your inference, as the results speak for themselves. Allstars DO NOT equate to success, as the Knicks have demonstrated along with many others.

    Instead of parsing your views on Mike by focusing on a comparative analysis between him and Doc, understand you have no logical answer for why certain detremental decisions were made besides the coach (Mike D) isn't that good. And that's. An observation made independent of coach comparison.

    With under three minutes to go in game one, and the Knicks clinging to a lead...

    1. Why did they neglect to get Amare (28 & 7 I believe) the ball seven straight possessions down the stretch?

    2. Why was JJ in on an all important offensive possession
    in game two?

    3. Why has saving timeouts and late game fouling been an issue since the reg season?

    This has nothing to do with Doc or allstars and everything to do with coaching. You can't distract me.
    Last edited by Red; Apr 29, 2011 at 10:53.

  5. #110
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Because he's demonstrated an ability to succeed where others have failed... including being able to curtail those "allstars" and their egos.

    One of which became an allstar during his watch.(Rondo)
    One other who was a borderine allstar on the decline.(Allen)
    And another who was a perennial allstar as well as a career post season underachiever. (Garnett)

    Do you think Doc is the only coach to have allstars? Do you think there are no successful coaches devoid of total allstar laden rosters as you intimate?

    The answer is no.

    Do the names Bell, Nash, Marion, Barbosa, Stat, and Shaq ring any bells. Those examples along with many others (Atl last year, Orl last few years, etc...)

    poke holes in your inference, as the results speak for themselves. Allstars DO NOT equate to success, as the Knicks have demonstrated along with many others.

    Instead of parsing your views on Mike by focusing on a comparative analysis between him and Doc, understand you have no logical answer for why certain detremental decisions were made besides the coach (Mike D) isn't that good. And that's. An observation made independent of coach comparison.

    With under three minutes to go in game one, and the Knicks clinging to a lead...

    1. Why did they neglect to get Amare (28 & 7 I believe) the ball seven straight possessions down the stretch?

    2. Why was JJ in on an all important offensive possession
    in game two?

    3. Why has saving timeouts and late game fouling been an issue since the reg season?

    This has nothing to do with Doc or allstars and everything to do with coaching. You can't distract me.

    Again you bastardized what I said and turn it into an argument about MDA...

    "This has nothing to do wtih Doc" - interesting, because that's all I talked/asked about in my post. So to me, it has everything to do with Doc. And nothing to do with MDA. You ask all these questions, I asked what the fascination is with Doc Rivers...

    Doc got Tom Thibodeau, a guy who is now a head coach in his first year of the #1 team in the East and 3 All Stars, suddenly "learned" how to defend a high screen and "became" a very "good" coach from a guy on the verge of being fired. Is that coincidence? Comeonson.

  6. #111
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Because he's demonstrated an ability to succeed where others have failed... including being able to curtail those "allstars" and their egos.
    You must have missed this part...smh

    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Again you bastardized what I said and turn it into an argument about MDA...

    "This has nothing to do wtih Doc" - interesting, because that's all I talked/asked about in my post. So to me, it has everything to do with Doc. And nothing to do with MDA. You ask all these questions, I asked what the fascination is with Doc Rivers...

    Doc got Tom Thibodeau, a guy who is now a head coach in his first year of the #1 team in the East and 3 All Stars, suddenly "learned" how to defend a high screen and "became" a very "good" coach from a guy on the verge of being fired. Is that coincidence? Comeonson.
    We are in the "There's no Defense for Mike D'Antoni" thread, correct?

    Key word being NO. Stick to the script.

    You implied a "fascination" for Doc with the controversial decisons and support for Mike as a back-drop. Thus I expounded.


    K? Black?

    I woun't be distracted! Mike must go, Doc is better, figure out why. Better yet figure out why you don't agree. Son.

  7. #112
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    Originally Posted by Red
    You must have missed this part...smh



    We are in the "There's no Defense for Mike D'Antoni" thread, correct?

    Key word being NO. Stick to the script.

    You implied a "fascination" for Doc with the controversial decisons and support for Mike as a back-drop. Thus I expounded.


    K? Black?

    I woun't be distracted! Mike must go, Doc is better, figure out why. Better yet figure out why you don't agree. Son.
    Your sentences barely make sense. I simply asked what the fascination with Doc is...YOU turned it into somehow that's a defense for MDA. It's not. At all. It's about Doc. Who isn't a good coach. Just because he is "better" than MDA doesn't mean anything.

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    Following Orlando's loss to Atlanta. Is there any defence for Stan Van Gundy? I suppose he must be utter ****e by conventional poster's standards.

  9. #114
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    Originally Posted by TakMan
    Following Orlando's loss to Atlanta. Is there any defence for Stan Van Gundy? I suppose he must be utter ****e by conventional poster's standards.
    I have always disliked SVG - his attitude and general demeanor towards everyone and everything.

    But what I dislike most is how he has not pushed D12. D12 should be the best player in the league...but in crunch time either plays are not called for him or D12 does not want the ball (or both), and frequently he looks disinterested. Someone has to get in D12's ear and make him play inspired ball - should be SVG, but this coaching staff has failed D12.

  10. #115
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    Just because.

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    we are in a bit of twist here... we are loaded up on all-stars and if we do dump d'aint who do you hire... it takes a damn strong personally to coach even bigger egos. you bring in a young guy they could underlmind him without trying to. a big time coach and it could lead to a clash of egos. we are in twist here...

  12. #117
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    Media Update... More Mike sh*t

    Its the bizzaro world. We should of had Jackson and or Thibs (defense), and the Bulls should of had SSOL (LOSS) with 'Antoni and Rose... go figure

    DALLAS - Mark Jackson was poised to hire Bernie Bickerstaff and Del Harris as his assistant coaches and even return Mike Saunders to his old job as head trainer.

    From every indication team president Donnie Walsh had given him, Mark Jackson, the Brooklyn-born point guard out of St. John's, was about to become the Knicks' next coach in 2008. But then Mike D'Antoni parted ways with Phoenix, and with the league office - which had encouraged James Dolan to hire Walsh - now pushing Walsh to hire D'Antoni, Jackson's dream job was finished.

    Three years later, the career paths of Jackson and Walsh have crossed again. Jackson got his big coaching break with the Golden State Warriors Monday, while Walsh announced on Friday that he is stepping down as Knicks president on June 30. And the way things are going, D'Antoni, the coach Walsh picked ahead of Jackson, won't be far behind.

    KNICKS KEEP 'EM OR DUMP 'EM

    It's hard to say if Walsh would have survived longer had he trusted his instincts and went with the player who helped him reach his only NBA Finals with the Indiana Pacers in 2000. Dolan was still going to have a relationship with Isiah Thomas no matter who was coaching the Knicks.

    It would have been easy for the Knicks to sell Jackson, despite him having zero experience on the bench. He would have played a more traditional style, one that emphasizes defense. That's a style Walsh favors.

    Walsh's best Pacers teams were big and physical. But he went with D'Antoni, who places an emphasis on playing small and quick with defense an afterthought. By the end of D'Antoni's second year, Walsh was telling people close to him that he had made a mistake.

    D'Antoni was clearly the safe pick because of his success in Phoenix. Plus, the Knicks were selling him to the fans and the media by claiming that D'Antoni, an assistant coach with the U.S. national team, had developed strong relationships with the top American players.

    The theory was that free agents would stampede to New York to play for D'Antoni, with LeBron James leading the charge. But for all the talk, only one came.

    And that player, Amar'e Stoudemire, signed on the dotted line because the Knicks were offering $30 million more than the Suns were willing to pay. Moreover, D'Antoni wanted the Knicks to sign Chris Bosh and, according to sources, cautioned Walsh about investing in Stoudemire, with whom he had a contentious relationship in Phoenix.

    D'Antoni himself wasn't sold on New York. His first choice was to join the Chicago Bulls, but in the end he chased the Knicks' money. In his gut, D'Antoni knew he was making the wrong move and he felt even worse when the Bulls won the draft lottery and selected Derrick Rose.

    Now, D'Antoni is doing everything he can to save himself. He recently confirmed a Daily News report from May that he is considering hiring a defensive coach. His refusal to do so in Phoenix - he could have had current Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau - was one of the reasons D'Antoni had a falling out with Suns management.

    And for two years, D'Antoni would become downright belligerent when it was suggested that bringing in someone to run the defense might be in the team's best interest.

    After all this time, D'Antoni realizes that such a move is in his best interests.

    He owed it to the organization, the players and Walsh to do that from Day 1. It's too late now. Walsh is gone, .D'Antoni is working on borrowed time and, three years after he was ready to come to work for Walsh at Madison Square Garden, Mark Jackson finally gets to prove if he has the chops to be an NBA head coach.
    Thoughts.
    Last edited by Red; Jun 08, 2011 at 08:48. Reason: nydailynews.com

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