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Thread: Knicks will Keep Billups. Option picked up.

  1. #31
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    lol...

    Awwhhh.. You're mad. How unfortunate.

    Notice the mysterious absence of a substantive rubuttal.

    It's all good though..

    And I said I'd considered this stuff. I didn't say I had it all figured, especially this CBA nonsense. It's not really my strength at all.
    I told you, you're a casual fan, and I know how not to waste my time.

    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Melo and STAT can't restructure their deals to increase cap space. They would have had to take "less" money up front (STAT as an FA, and Melo a non-max extension.)

    From what I understand, NBA contracts can not be restructured downward. That only works in the NFL where guaranteed money vs overall contract value comes into play for the athlete redoing his deal. NBA players don't have that worry, and it doesn't seem like the NBA-PA allows it.

    Edit:



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    Thanks.

    "A wise man once said don't argue with fools- because people from far, can't tell who is who"- Jay-Z



    Ahhh.... love that quote

  2. #32
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    I told you, you're a casual fan, and I know how not to waste my time.



    Thanks.

    "A wise man once said don't argue with fools- because people from far, can't tell who is who"- Jay-Z



    Ahhh.... love that quote
    So I make a mistake re: the CBA. Then I admit that my knowledge of the CBA is not something to be relied upon (i've admitted this since I've been posting here) and somehow in your mind that equates to me being a "casual" fan....

    So in Red's world you to have intricate knowledge of the CBA to be a passionate fan of the game of baskeball?? Hmm.. ok.

    And Red, one could make a cogent arguement that your repetitive, fixated posting re: our coach rivals that of KFFQ over the last week or so, and has been quintessential foolishness. Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me..

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    So I make a mistake re: the CBA. Then I admit that my knowledge of the CBA is not something to be relied upon (i've admitted this since I've been posting here) and somehow in your mind that equates to me being a "casual" fan....

    So in Red's world you to have intricate knowledge of the CBA to be a passionate fan of the game of baskeball?? Hmm.. ok.

    And Red, one could make a cogent arguement that your repetitive, fixated posting re: our coach rivals that of KFFQ over the last week or so, and has been quintessential foolishness. Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me..
    There is a fine line with him. If you know too much you are a nerd and if you admit to not knowing about something you are somehow a casual fan. Damn Rono! Walk that line just right or risk being called out!

  4. #34
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    So I make a mistake re: the CBA. Then I admit that my knowledge of the CBA is not something to be relied upon (i've admitted this since I've been posting here) and somehow in your mind that equates to me being a "casual" fan....

    So in Red's world you to have intricate knowledge of the CBA to be a passionate fan of the game of baskeball?? Hmm.. ok.

    And Red, one could make a cogent arguement that your repetitive, fixated posting re: our coach rivals that of KFFQ over the last week or so, and has been quintessential foolishness. Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me..
    I'm not the one who claimed to "consider all of this"- knowing the constant is the unknown.

    Nor am I the one who mentions you in posts not directly addressed as a response.

    Leave the capology up to Oldtimer, and play your part.

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    There is a fine line with him. If you know too much you are a nerd and if you admit to not knowing about something you are somehow a casual fan. Damn Rono! Walk that line just right or risk being called out!
    Mind your business. I didn't label you a nerd, I simply echoed the sentiment.

  5. #35
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    There is a fine line with him. If you know too much you are a nerd and if you admit to not knowing about anything you are somehow a casual fan. Damn Rono! Walk that line just right or risk being called out!
    I don't get Red..

    That doesn't mean I don't respect him as a poster, because I do.. But he's been getting more and more sensitive over the last day or so as we've continued to disagree.

    Re: the line.. The pure b-ball talk I'm good w. Players, x's and o's, strategy, stats, that sh*t I can do in my sleep.. When I get something really wrong it tends to be when I talk about the CBA. But to call me a casual fan becuase of that smh..

    I know too many real, hardcore b-ball heads that have little to no knowledge of the CBA, lol. Who cares, the CBA is separate from the game imo. It has nothing to do w one's love or passion for it.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Apr 28, 2011 at 10:38.

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by Red
    I'm not the one who claimed to "consider all of this"- knowing the constant is the unknown.

    Nor am I the one who mentions you in posts not directly addressed as a response.

    Leave the capology up to Oldtimer, and play your part.



    Mind your business. I didn't label you a nerd, I simply echoed the sentiment.
    Yes echoed it over and over and over again. At what point do you own it? Further, we never got confirmation from the original poster who made that nerd comment on who exactly he was talking about. You just decided to run with it in place of an actual on topic debate...

  7. #37
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    I'm not the one who claimed to "consider all of this"- knowing the constant is the unknown.

    Nor am I the one who mentions you in posts not directly addressed as a response.

    Leave the capology up to Oldtimer, and play your part.



    Mind your business. I didn't label you a nerd, I simply echoed the sentiment.
    Well I'm going to challenge Oldtimer and LJ when they've been saying for a while now that we can't get CP3. Especially when I know that's not the case. I ventured in to uncharted territory a lil bit to do so. That's ok.

    I know enough to know I don't know everthing, nor will you see me tring to act like I do. I'm humble enough to be able to be corrected and not get all defensive, unlike some people...

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    Don't like it, unless we use his $14,2 mil. to get either Paul or Williams. Deron that is.

    Billups himself isn't worth over $14 mil. And his play has been erratic to say the least.

  9. #39
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    Default The New CBA

    I remain extremely pessimistic about an acquisition of a CP3 or a Dwight Howard in 2012/13. But there is an unknown -- what will the new CBA look like.

    I do not believe that the League will encourage star players to choose their locations. It only works for large market venues. I anticipate that at the very least there will be significant financial inducements to players to remain with their original teams.

    But there may be initial adjustments to smooth a transition from the old CBA paradigm to a new paradigm that may involve similarities with NFL contracts. We are not going to know where we are until the new CBA map unfolds.

  10. #40
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Don't like it, unless we use his $14,2 mil. to get either Paul or Williams. Deron that is.

    Billups himself isn't worth over $14 mil. And his play has been erratic to say the least.
    He did avg. 17 & 5.5 here.
    This is a good strategic move. Any value PG we would've signed would have a multi-year contract.

    CB's contract is expiring, while adding stability and leadership at the PG position. Two things unachievable thru free-agency.

  11. #41
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    The options to replace CB were not going to do us any better in the next season so having a good solid foundation is a good place to start. I hope that these guys choose to play together over the off-season and work on some cohesion and sense of camaraderie. The lack of cohesion between melo and Amar'e is very concerning. From what I saw we have two players that are very good but only one can have a 'great night" while the other has an off night and I put that on the PG. In the playoffs it was mostly Toney Douglas, but throughout the end of the season I saw billups make many of the same plays that essentially amde our 1-2 punch ineffective.

  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by Red
    He did avg. 17 & 5.5 here.
    This is a good strategic move. Any value PG we would've signed would have a multi-year contract.

    CB's contract is expiring, while adding stability and leadership at the PG position. Two things unachievable thru free-agency.
    Exactly, we all know Chauncey is not worth $14.5 but that was the worth of his team option.

    Chauncey's injuries dont really concern me. I think it was just a runa bad luck. Banging knees is never fun. The last injury was concerning but the MRI showed no structural damage. He will be fine next year. He just needs to stop jacking up shots. Dont listen to Dantoni, do what you thik whats right. Thats what Anthony Carter did. Instead of listening to Dantoni's instruction to layoff rondo, Carter got into rondo's shorts and we rallied in game 4.

    Go Knicks.

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    LJ + oldtimer,

    I respect the both of you guys and your knowledge of the CBA, but I don't think your looking at this situation logically based on past and current events.

    Let us remember Paul will control his destiny similarly to the way we saw Melo operate this season, weaseling and working his way to our squad. Let us also remember CP3 has the same people managing him.

    Lets say the NOH front office wants to trade him to another team because what we'd have to offer isn't enough. Well Paul can simply say he won't sign a long term deal with anyone else the way Melo did. That should prevent NOH from being able to find a team that's willing to accept him as a rental. Remember they'd have to give up pieces to get him for only a portion of a season. No team worth their salt would do this IMO. So..... even if our deal isn't enough, NOH will still either have to take what we offer, or lose him as FA. And there will be no CBA to worry about in the summer 2012, no reason for Paul or Donnie not to wait if that's what's needed.
    Funny, these exact same words were said about Melo only 8 months ago. Everybody argued that we could get Melo for Curry + Chandler because Denver HAD to deal with us. I said it was going to cost us Chandler + Gallo + Randolph. Everybody said I was wrong and that we should never give up that much for Melo who was a free agent in a year............My oh my, how things changed over the course of this year.



    And nowhere in that article or anywhere has Donnie ever said we have enough cap space for another max contract level player (CP3 or Howard). Donnie is a politician if I've ever seen one. He's very coy and purposeful with his words when he talks to the media.

    All Donnie says is we have cap space for next summer. Which we all know. He never says anything about how much space we'll have. Donnie knows, and I know, we do not have enough space to sign CP3 and build a team around those guys, unless CP3 agrees to take $10 mil/year. Amare and Melo make too much. Donnie won't say it to the media. He never tells the media anything.

    As I said before we will have $44.15 mil in team salary with only 2 players on the roster. They can't restructure their deals. Your only hopes are the cap goes up about $10 mil, or CP3 takes a massive pay cut.

    I know CP3 is one of your favorite players, he's one of mine too, but building a TEAM is much more important than getting CP3. I would have preferred we never traded for Melo and had gone straight after CP3. We would have a much better team. CP3 and Amare is a much better tandem than Melo and Amare.

    We need to stop with the flashy names and build a solid team. CP3 + Melo + Amare + 12 minimum salary scrubs is not going to win anything. That is a shell of a team. The only reason everybody is talking about getting a 3rd superstar is because Miami did it. Last I checked, they haven't won anything yet. Let's get a solid big man and a SG (if we can, as I've expressed my doubts about our ability to even do that) before we dump everything for CP3. People have greatly underestimated the need for solid role players. Our bench was seriously exposed. Another star is not what we need.

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Funny, these exact same words were said about Melo only 8 months ago. Everybody argued that we could get Melo for Curry + Chandler because Denver HAD to deal with us. I said it was going to cost us Chandler + Gallo + Randolph. Everybody said I was wrong and that we should never give up that much for Melo who was a free agent in a year............My oh my, how things changed over the course of this year.



    And nowhere in that article or anywhere has Donnie ever said we have enough cap space for another max contract level player (CP3 or Howard). Donnie is a politician if I've ever seen one. He's very coy and purposeful with his words when he talks to the media.

    All Donnie says is we have cap space for next summer. Which we all know. He never says anything about how much space we'll have. Donnie knows, and I know, we do not have enough space to sign CP3 and build a team around those guys, unless CP3 agrees to take $10 mil/year. Amare and Melo make too much. Donnie won't say it to the media. He never tells the media anything.

    As I said before we will have $44.15 mil in team salary with only 2 players on the roster. They can't restructure their deals. Your only hopes are the cap goes up about $10 mil, or CP3 takes a massive pay cut.

    I know CP3 is one of your favorite players, he's one of mine too, but building a TEAM is much more important than getting CP3. I would have preferred we never traded for Melo and had gone straight after CP3. We would have a much better team. CP3 and Amare is a much better tandem than Melo and Amare.

    We need to stop with the flashy names and build a solid team. CP3 + Melo + Amare + 12 minimum salary scrubs is not going to win anything. That is a shell of a team. The only reason everybody is talking about getting a 3rd superstar is because Miami did it. Last I checked, they haven't won anything yet. Let's get a solid big man and a SG (if we can, as I've expressed my doubts about our ability to even do that) before we dump everything for CP3. People have greatly underestimated the need for solid role players. Our bench was seriously exposed. Another star is not what we need.
    I'm a huge CP3 fan but I also share your view about building a TEAM. As i've said already, 3 superstars and 12 minimum contract fillers is not the best way to build a cohesive team. I'm glad we got Melo and Amare. Now let's build around them with some good role players.

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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    I'm a huge CP3 fan but I also share your view about building a TEAM. As i've said already, 3 superstars and 12 minimum contract fillers is not the best way to build a cohesive team. I'm glad we got Melo and Amare. Now let's build around them with some good role players.
    But here's the thing:

    You point is only valid if, for a third superstar, we were only considering players like Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Danny Granger, etc. If its for an elite pg like Chris paul, then you do it.

    We dont want a team like Miami. As great as they are they are severly flawed as a team. Defensively they are fine, a big man is not the issue. Its there offense they have no designated playmaker. Lebron passing ability is overrated. He is only a good passer for a small forward not a good passer overall. Dwade and Bosh are not playmakers.

    KG, Pierce, and Allen are playmakers. The can make plays but not on a full time basis. BOS big 2 have said a few times that this is Rondo's team. He runs it. With out Rondo I doubt that they will be this successful.

    The Knicks stuggled for many reasons but mainly they had no point guard this series. Melo and STAT cant carve up a defense and break it down to make plays. CP3 can. As you watch CP3 against the lakers he causes so many problems for a good defensive team. Rondo, while not as good, does the same.

    If we fail to land CP3 then we forget the 3rd star and build around. But CP3 is a no brainer. When or If he comes it will be his team.

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