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Thread: Knicks will Keep Billups. Option picked up.

  1. #46
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Funny, these exact same words were said about Melo only 8 months ago. Everybody argued that we could get Melo for Curry + Chandler because Denver HAD to deal with us. I said it was going to cost us Chandler + Gallo + Randolph. Everybody said I was wrong and that we should never give up that much for Melo who was a free agent in a year............My oh my, how things changed over the course of this year.



    And nowhere in that article or anywhere has Donnie ever said we have enough cap space for another max contract level player (CP3 or Howard). Donnie is a politician if I've ever seen one. He's very coy and purposeful with his words when he talks to the media.

    All Donnie says is we have cap space for next summer. Which we all know. He never says anything about how much space we'll have. Donnie knows, and I know, we do not have enough space to sign CP3 and build a team around those guys, unless CP3 agrees to take $10 mil/year. Amare and Melo make too much. Donnie won't say it to the media. He never tells the media anything.

    As I said before we will have $44.15 mil in team salary with only 2 players on the roster. They can't restructure their deals. Your only hopes are the cap goes up about $10 mil, or CP3 takes a massive pay cut.

    I know CP3 is one of your favorite players, he's one of mine too, but building a TEAM is much more important than getting CP3. I would have preferred we never traded for Melo and had gone straight after CP3. We would have a much better team. CP3 and Amare is a much better tandem than Melo and Amare.

    We need to stop with the flashy names and build a solid team. CP3 + Melo + Amare + 12 minimum salary scrubs is not going to win anything. That is a shell of a team. The only reason everybody is talking about getting a 3rd superstar is because Miami did it. Last I checked, they haven't won anything yet. Let's get a solid big man and a SG (if we can, as I've expressed my doubts about our ability to even do that) before we dump everything for CP3. People have greatly underestimated the need for solid role players. Our bench was seriously exposed. Another star is not what we need.
    Thats pretty much the Bulls now and Steve Nash and STAT's Suns. As great as the Suns were offensively I always thought what separated them and the Lakers was the great wing player. I remeber last year they doubled and tripled team that guy and he still drained his shots. They had no answer.

    The Bulls well, Boozer is not that impact full and they will never win a chip w/o a 3rd scorer.

    The Lakers have three stars. Kobe Pau and Odom, to an extent Ron Artest for a 4th. (last 3 dont have much fan fare but very accomplished)

    Boston has a Big 4.

    Filling out the Knicks will take smart management. It will also take great coaching to develop our players like Derrick Brown (who I can see as a more athletic Big Baby Davis) and Toney Douglas. Then you need players like Anthony Carter.

    We need role players definately but the problem was that they along with Melo were given the responsibilty of point guard. Honestly they celtics roles players did not out play us that much. We had no one to make them play better, like a point guard. Every Great team in the NBA has questions about their bench. The bench are always wishy washy. But a great pg will make them look good.
    How many open jump shot did Rondo create for big baby? Alot. Pg play is key. But Having Melo and STAT is also important b/c you can depend on them for scoring help. Thats why New Orleans have been inconsistent these past few years.

    Celtics are the blueprint, not Miami.

  2. #47
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    But here's the thing:

    You point is only valid if, for a third superstar, we were only considering players like Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Danny Granger, etc. If its for an elite pg like Chris paul, then you do it.

    We dont want a team like Miami. As great as they are they are severly flawed as a team. Defensively they are fine, a big man is not the issue. Its there offense they have no designated playmaker. Lebron passing ability is overrated. He is only a good passer for a small forward not a good passer overall. Dwade and Bosh are not playmakers.

    KG, Pierce, and Allen are playmakers. The can make plays but not on a full time basis. BOS big 2 have said a few times that this is Rondo's team. He runs it. With out Rondo I doubt that they will be this successful.

    The Knicks stuggled for many reasons but mainly they had no point guard this series. Melo and STAT cant carve up a defense and break it down to make plays. CP3 can. As you watch CP3 against the lakers he causes so many problems for a good defensive team. Rondo, while not as good, does the same.

    If we fail to land CP3 then we forget the 3rd star and build around. But CP3 is a no brainer. When or If he comes it will be his team.
    Have you watched D Wade? He's an awesome play-maker. He makes fantastic decisions w the basketball and he is very good passer.

    And Lebron is not just a good passer for a small forward. He's just a great great passer. His decision making is not as good as Wade's however, which is why you see Wade with the ball in his hands the majority of the time in the 4th quarter.

    Wade and Lebron are better play-makers than Allen and Pierce, easily. I'll leave KG out, although he is also a very good passer (averages close to or 5 assists for his career which is great for a PF) He is a better passer than Bosh.

  3. #48
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Have you watched D Wade? He's an awesome play-maker. He makes fantastic decisions w the basketball and he is very good passer.

    And Lebron is not just a good passer for a small forward. He's just a great great passer. His decision making is not as good as Wade's however, which is why you see Wade with the ball in his hands the majority of the time in the 4th quarter.

    Wade and Lebron are better play-makers than Allen and Pierce, easily. I'll leave KG out, although he is also a very good passer (averages close to or 5 assists for his career which is great for a PF) He is a better passer than Bosh.
    They are not designated playmakers. They are better playmakers than STAT and Melo. But they are not point guards.

    Even if they are "playmakers" they are score-first playmakers. To pass first is not their MO.

    They are not point guards. Lebron is a great passer but he is not better than CP3, Rondo, and Deron Williams. The aforementioned 3 are designated playmakers.

    Wade can score in the clutch better than Lebron. Thats why he has the ball.

  4. #49
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    You should have been more specific in your post. 1st you said Wade and Bron r not playmakers. Then you said Pierce, KG and are playmakers. How does that sound to you?

    Miami doesn't really have a pass first PG. Wade and Bron make most of the plays for their teammates, while also being interchangeable 1st and 2nd scoring options.

    Like you said, the Celts big 3 benefit by Rondo's ability to make plays for them, but they can also make plays for each other. However, they can not facilitate at the level of Wade and Bron.

    Yes Wade is more clutch than Bron, but he also makes better decisions w the basketball. That dude always seems to be able to set someone else up if he can't get a good look at a shot for himself - such high IQ player.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Apr 28, 2011 at 22:25.

  5. #50
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    You should have been more specific in your post. 1st you said Wade and Bron r not playmakers. Then you said Pierce, KG and are playmakers. How does that sound to you?

    Miami doesn't really have a pass first PG. Wade and Bron make most of the plays for their teammates, while also being interchangeable 1st and 2nd scoring options.

    Like you said, the Celts big 3 benefit by Rondo's ability to make plays for them, but they can also make plays for each other. However, they can not facilitate at the level of Wade and Bron.

    Yes Wade is more clutch than Bron, but he also makes better decisions w the basketball. That dude always seems to be able to set someone else up if he can't get a good look at a shot for himself - such high IQ player.
    Yea I did make a mistake there I apologize. And I agree with everything in your post.

    Thats why we should should get an elite pg. Miami is good. They can probably win a game with with 10 seconds or left with Dwade halding the ball.

    But games are won the way the Celtics win them. The execute their offense with precision and point guard play is the biggest reason why. Once they score is gives their already suffocating defense time to settle in.

  6. #51
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Funny, these exact same words were said about Melo only 8 months ago. Everybody argued that we could get Melo for Curry + Chandler because Denver HAD to deal with us. I said it was going to cost us Chandler + Gallo + Randolph. Everybody said I was wrong and that we should never give up that much for Melo who was a free agent in a year............My oh my, how things changed over the course of this year.



    And nowhere in that article or anywhere has Donnie ever said we have enough cap space for another max contract level player (CP3 or Howard). Donnie is a politician if I've ever seen one. He's very coy and purposeful with his words when he talks to the media.

    All Donnie says is we have cap space for next summer. Which we all know. He never says anything about how much space we'll have. Donnie knows, and I know, we do not have enough space to sign CP3 and build a team around those guys, unless CP3 agrees to take $10 mil/year. Amare and Melo make too much. Donnie won't say it to the media. He never tells the media anything.

    As I said before we will have $44.15 mil in team salary with only 2 players on the roster. They can't restructure their deals. Your only hopes are the cap goes up about $10 mil, or CP3 takes a massive pay cut.

    I know CP3 is one of your favorite players, he's one of mine too, but building a TEAM is much more important than getting CP3. I would have preferred we never traded for Melo and had gone straight after CP3. We would have a much better team. CP3 and Amare is a much better tandem than Melo and Amare.

    We need to stop with the flashy names and build a solid team. CP3 + Melo + Amare + 12 minimum salary scrubs is not going to win anything. That is a shell of a team. The only reason everybody is talking about getting a 3rd superstar is because Miami did it. Last I checked, they haven't won anything yet. Let's get a solid big man and a SG (if we can, as I've expressed my doubts about our ability to even do that) before we dump everything for CP3. People have greatly underestimated the need for solid role players. Our bench was seriously exposed. Another star is not what we need.
    would your position change if MIA wins it all this year?

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    Originally Posted by NYallDay
    would your position change if MIA wins it all this year?
    Not really. It would make me consider it more though. The cap going up dramatically would change my mind. There are many ways to win a championship. 3 max super stars is not the only way. In fact, 3 max stars + 12 minimum salary players is definitely not the best way to win a championship, which is all we'll have. Remember, the big 3 in Miami all took pay cuts to play together and still build around them.

    Amare and Melo have the full max. That means CP3 is going to have to take a huge pay cut to come here. $44 mil with 2 players on the roster just doesn't leave enough room to get a 3rd max and still build a team. Someone is going to have to sacrifice, either the Knicks, or CP3.

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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    Thats pretty much the Bulls now and Steve Nash and STAT's Suns. As great as the Suns were offensively I always thought what separated them and the Lakers was the great wing player. I remeber last year they doubled and tripled team that guy and he still drained his shots. They had no answer.

    The Bulls well, Boozer is not that impact full and they will never win a chip w/o a 3rd scorer.

    The Lakers have three stars. Kobe Pau and Odom, to an extent Ron Artest for a 4th. (last 3 dont have much fan fare but very accomplished)

    Boston has a Big 4.

    Filling out the Knicks will take smart management. It will also take great coaching to develop our players like Derrick Brown (who I can see as a more athletic Big Baby Davis) and Toney Douglas. Then you need players like Anthony Carter.

    We need role players definately but the problem was that they along with Melo were given the responsibilty of point guard. Honestly they celtics roles players did not out play us that much. We had no one to make them play better, like a point guard. Every Great team in the NBA has questions about their bench. The bench are always wishy washy. But a great pg will make them look good.
    How many open jump shot did Rondo create for big baby? Alot. Pg play is key. But Having Melo and STAT is also important b/c you can depend on them for scoring help. Thats why New Orleans have been inconsistent these past few years.

    Celtics are the blueprint, not Miami.
    If Celtics are the blueprint and not Miami, why are we going after 3 max contract superstars?

    If anything we should have gone after CP3 or DWill instead of Melo. Then use the cap space to add an all-star level C. That would have been the best way to build a contender. I fear we are going to be perpetually stuck as a good team but never a contender because of the Melo trade.

    *edit* I'm favoritng all these threads for a year from now. We'll see.

    **edit 2** Everybody realizes we could have easily added DWill or CP3 + a quality Center (e.g. Tyson Chandler)THIS summer, had we not traded for Melo. Right? We could have been contenders next year. If the goal is to go after CP3 in 2012, the team we have next year is not going to be much different than the one we had this year. Because we can't afford any contracts over 1 year.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Apr 29, 2011 at 11:23.

  9. #54
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    If Celtics are the blueprint and not Miami, why are we going after 3 max contract superstars?

    If anything we should have gone after CP3 or DWill instead of Melo. Then use the cap space to add an all-star level C. That would have been the best way to build a contender. I fear we are going to be perpetually stuck as a good team but never a contender because of the Melo trade.

    *edit* I'm favoritng all these threads for a year from now. We'll see.

    **edit 2** Everybody realizes we could have easily added DWill or CP3 + a quality Center (e.g. Tyson Chandler)THIS summer, had we not traded for Melo. Right? We could have been contenders next year. If the goal is to go after CP3 in 2012, the team we have next year is not going to be much different than the one we had this year. Because we can't afford any contracts over 1 year.

    For bost blueprint I meantthat Boston got 3 stars drafted well and developed their younger stars. Boston unlike Miami had a center and point guard in place.

    What you are saying is true. But I think some moves are made a lot more in mind than just making the team better. This trade prevents other teams from being better than us.

    Now Melo is better than STAT. What if Melo went to Jersey? He would have been alone for a year and a half. But we all know Prokorov wants a superteam as well and to crush the Knicks. If Melo went to the Nets. Its makes them a very attarctive. Proky would have ripped apart the team to get Chris Paul and Dwight Howard. We would have Deron Willams and STAT. The Nets would beat us every year even if we had Chandler. That would be a devastating blow to Knick Nation.

  10. #55
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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    For bost blueprint I meantthat Boston got 3 stars drafted well and developed their younger stars. Boston unlike Miami had a center and point guard in place.

    What you are saying is true. But I think some moves are made a lot more in mind than just making the team better. This trade prevents other teams from being better than us.

    Now Melo is better than STAT. What if Melo went to Jersey? He would have been alone for a year and a half. But we all know Prokorov wants a superteam as well and to crush the Knicks. If Melo went to the Nets. Its makes them a very attarctive. Proky would have ripped apart the team to get Chris Paul and Dwight Howard. We would have Deron Willams and STAT. The Nets would beat us every year even if we had Chandler. That would be a devastating blow to Knick Nation.
    I respectfully disagree. The Net trade for Melo would have depleted them of assets and picks as well. I was not worried in the least bit of Melo in NJ.

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