Mike forced to conform. Adding DEFENSIVE asst.

Red

TYPE-A
As Donnie Walsh*seeks to regain full autonomy within the Knicks organization, Mike D'Antoni could be losing some of his power on the Knicks' bench.

According to several sources, the front office will encourage D'Antoni to revamp his coaching staff to hire a defensive coach. In the past, D'Antoni has been reluctant to seek outside help, most famously refusing Steve Kerr's request four years ago to hire Tom Thibodeau in Phoenix. Thibodeau landed in Boston in 2007, and helped the Celtics win the title three seasons ago. He now is head coach of the top-seeded Bulls.

D'Antoni is under contract through next season and is expected to be retained after leading the Knicks to their first postseason appearance in seven years. However, under D'Antoni the Knicks have been among the league's weaker defensive teams, which is something Walsh would like to change.

Memphis assistant Dave Joerger, Orlando's Steve Clifford, Portland's Bill Bayno and Chicago's Ron Adams are all regarded as top defensive coaches. Another possibility for the Knicks is Thibodeau's replacement in Boston, Lawrence Frank, the former Nets' coach. Frank's contract expires this summer.

A move to hire another assistant does not necessarily mean one of D'Antoni's current assistants will be removed. Phil Weber, Dan D'Antoni, Herb Williams and the highly regarded Ken Atkinson are all expected to be retained. D'Antoni, who is expected to acquiesce to management, has made it clear that he wants to remain in New York. However, there will be several job openings this summer that D'Antoni might find attractive, including one with Golden State, whose roster has players better suited to play D'Antoni's up-tempo system than the Knicks currently do.

Good for us
 
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Red

TYPE-A
more food for thought

You know what I keep repeating about Einsteins theory on insanity.

"Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results" = insanity.

I think the message is clear- just as I said. This ain't PHX

NEW YORK -- Thursday marked Day 4 of the New York Knicks' news blackout that coach Mike D'Antoni has helped maintain since the Boston Celtics swept the team out of the playoffs Sunday, leaving some unanswered questions -- like whether or not he and general manager Donnie Walsh will be back next season. But at least D'Antoni hasn't started holding rebellious roadside chats with reporters outside the Knicks' training facility, like Larry Brown did on his way to the great one-and-done, $18-million buyout of 2006.

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That was a circus. This is just d?j? vu -- or at least it should be for D'Antoni, now that his aversion to change is clouding his job future again.

May 10 will mark four years to the day that D'Antoni walked away in a huff from the two years and $8.5 million left on his Phoenix Suns contract, eventually choosing to sign with the Knicks. And what's striking is how what was said about D'Antoni then is nearly identical to the disenchantment around him now.

If you read the following laundry list of the questions about D'Antoni, I defy you to tell me if the article in which they appeared was written four years ago or in the past week:

"The [team] doesn't want to fire D'Antoni ... . But one franchise source said team officials would demand changes from D'Antoni if he were to come back. They want him to make defense a greater priority. They could even set a minimum for how much time he would have to devote to it at each practice. They want him to hold his players more accountable. They also could ask him to make changes or additions to his staff. ... D'Antoni has stubbornly insisted that his system works, and considering his 232-96 record with the Suns, it's hard to argue otherwise."
Yahoo.com's Johnny Ludden wrote that on April 30, 2008, after the San Antonio Spurs eliminated the Suns, 4-1, in the first round of the playoffs. In the same article, Ludden quoted then-Suns general manager Steve Kerr, lamenting similar team shortcomings as the Knicks did during the Celtics series: "I think defensively we've got to improve. ... We make strides, but it's sort of one step forward, two steps back sometimes," Kerr said. "When our focus and our attention is there, we can be really good ... but it's sort of sporadic. We've got to get more consistent defensively. Again, I think it's attention to detail."

[+] Enlarge
Nathaniel S. Butler/NBAE via Getty Images
D'Antoni has found similar results in different surroundings.
On Sunday, as Boston was slapping aside the Knicks, some of the Celtics actually laughed out loud on court sometimes at the Knicks' defensive lapses.

So this is the same crossroads for D'Antoni, but he should have a different answer this time. While the critiques of his coaching style remain unchanged, he's now had different players, different management and different roadblocks to get past in the playoffs (the proud, former title-winning Spurs teams then versus the even older and proud former title-winning Celtics this year).

Don't believe it? Let's play the time-capsule game again. Who said this: "They beat us with the intangibles, they beat us with the little things, they beat us with the gamesmanship, they beat us with the attention to detail, the game plan, doing all the little things that win games."

If you guessed Suns guard Raja Bell, circa 2008 -- not lukewarm D'Antoni fan Carmelo Anthony around about midnight Sunday -- congratulations! You win!

Walsh has a far different management style and stature than Kerr did. Walsh had already made his bones as an NBA general manager when Kerr was still hoisting 3-pointers on some of Michael Jordan's title-winning teams decades ago. It's hard to imagine D'Antoni yelling at Walsh as he did Kerr when Kerr suggested some tweaks to his sacred offense during D'Antoni's final season in Phoenix.

"Don't tell me how to coach offense," D'Antoni shouted.

Suns owner Robert Sarver went on a Phoenix radio station a day after D'Antoni laid out his beefs with the Suns in a New York Post article last December and said after the 2006-07 season, the organization had indeed wanted D'Antoni to hire a defensive coordinator kind of coach. (Again, sound familiar, Knicks fans?) But instead of Sarver's and Kerr's choice, Tom Thibodeau -- who joined the Celtics instead and helped make them into the best defensive team in the league as they won the title his first year there -- D'Antoni hired his brother, Dan, who is now on the Knicks' staff, too.

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Thibodeau has since gone on to coach the Bulls to the best record in the East this season, and he'll be named coach of the year any day now. The idea of what the Knicks might be now if they'd hired Thibodeau, a former Knicks assistant under Jeff Van Gundy, instead of D'Antoni is a column for another day. It was understandable. D'Antoni was the boldface name that had coached LeBron James with Team USA. Thibodeau, still unproven then as a head coach, was seen as the Bulls' consolation prize.
 
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ducktales17

Benchwarmer
"D'Antoni, who is expected to acquiesce to management, has made it clear that he wants to remain in New York. However, there will be several job openings this summer that D'Antoni might find attractive, including one with Golden State, whose roster has players better suited to play D'Antoni's up-tempo system than the Knicks currently do."

Don't let the door hit you on the way out chump
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
Walsh has to consider that, just because he's a coach, doesn't mean he can change his style successfully, or that quick (in this case, it'd need to be relatively quick).

Jeffries isn't gonna be an offensive juggernaut next season most likely, so we can't expect D'Antoni to be good on either end of the floor.
 

ducktales17

Benchwarmer
Walsh has to consider that, just because he's a coach, doesn't mean he can change his style successfully, or that quick (in this case, it'd need to be relatively quick).

Jeffries isn't gonna be an offensive juggernaut next season most likely, so we can't expect D'Antoni to be good on either end of the floor.

Can we please rephrase that?
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
It's funny how some posters attacked me for suggesting it concluding that MDA would never allow it...
 

KBlack25

Starter
Everyone knows this article doesn't exist - because if you read these boards you know MDA would never allow a defensive assistant coach in...until he did.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Well thank the Lord Jesus in heaven!

Thank You

Thank You

Thank You..

..for Donnie Walsh

He aint playing any games w MDA.

Now just bring in someone on the level of a Thibs please, or close to it.

People think I'm crazy for suggesting him but Mike Brown can really coach defense.
 
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Red

TYPE-A
It's funny how some posters attacked me for suggesting it concluding that MDA would never allow it...

Everyone knows this article doesn't exist - because if you read these boards you know MDA would never allow a defensive assistant coach in...until he did.

Now you feel appropriate to hail Mike for being FORCED to accept help towards his deficiency instead of subverting our goals doing things his flawed way?

Way to spin things and remain humble... a simple I'm glad would do.

And of course you think you deserve credit.

N*gga please, this just underscores the knowledgeable view points, you didn't share when defending him.

And I'm not referring to when you straddled the fence, I'm referring to when you refused to recognize. This is a further example of your refusal to admit the truth and spin things to fit your point.

I'm well aware. Trust me. This is a "Mike isn't doing a good job" referendum, not a "see Mike knows wassup" moment.

If anything myself and others have a right to say "we told you so"...
Your rep futher tanks as a result. Spin doc's are out!
 

KBlack25

Starter
Now you feel appropriate to hail Mike for being FORCED to accept help towards his deficiency instead of subverting our goals doing things his flawed way?

Way to spin things and remain humble... a simple I'm glad would do.

And of course you think you deserve credit.

N*gga please, this just underscores the knowledgeable view points, you didn't share when defending him.

And I'm not referring to when you straddled the fence, I'm referring to when you refused to recognize. This is a further example of your refusal to admit the truth and spin things to fit your point.

I'm well aware. Trust me. This is a "Mike isn't doing a good job" referendum, not a "see Mike knows wassup" moment.

If anything myself and others have a right to say "we told you so"...
Your rep futher tanks as a result. Spin doc's are out!

Awww...

Baby angry because he was shown wrong?

It's okay man...

You really need to take a chill pill. I wasn't taking credit, I wasn't attacking anyone. You just took it way too personal. Living life like that will cause an early heart attack. It's a message board, chill out.
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
Mike doesn't want a defensive assistant because he's totally happy with his "yes men" on the sidelines with him. MDA knows if he's forced to add a defensive coach he'll have to STFU 50% of the time and listen to reason.

Defensive coach: "ok guys bring it in... were going to..." (whatever the gameplan is)

MDA: "I don't understand"

D coach: "What is it?"

MDA: "Why isn't X player in your scheme right now?"

D coach: "Because Y player matches up better defensively"

MDA: "But X player can shoot really good"

D coach: "its ok Mike, just come up with a final play on offense"

MDA: "These guys already know to shoot it if they're open"

D coach: "oooo k" (inner confusion)


Hopefully at this point the D coach will be making trips to the front office to talk about the simple strategies on offense. (that's my pipe dream i guess)
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Now you feel appropriate to hail Mike for being FORCED to accept help towards his deficiency instead of subverting our goals doing things his flawed way?

Way to spin things and remain humble... a simple I'm glad would do.

And of course you think you deserve credit.

N*gga please, this just underscores the knowledgeable view points, you didn't share when defending him.

And I'm not referring to when you straddled the fence, I'm referring to when you refused to recognize. This is a further example of your refusal to admit the truth and spin things to fit your point.

I'm well aware. Trust me. This is a "Mike isn't doing a good job" referendum, not a "see Mike knows wassup" moment.

If anything myself and others have a right to say "we told you so"...
Your rep futher tanks as a result. Spin doc's are out!

Whoa guy relax before you burst a blood vessel. I merely pointed out that I suggested this weeks ago. (fact) I was attacked for doing so.(fact) Those attackers said MDA would never allow it and cited his departure in Phoenix. (fact) MDA is allowing it and does not look to be leaving.(fact) Those who attacked me were wrong. (fact)

Simmer dunny...
 

KBlack25

Starter
Mike doesn't want a defensive assistant because he's totally happy with his "yes men" on the sidelines with him. MDA knows if he's forced to add a defensive coach he'll have to STFU 50% of the time and listen to reason.

Defensive coach: "ok guys bring it in... were going to..." (whatever the gameplan is)

MDA: "I don't understand"

D coach: "What is it?"

MDA: "Why isn't X player in your scheme right now?"

D coach: "Because Y player matches up better defensively"

MDA: "But X player can shoot really good"

D coach: "its ok Mike, just come up with a final play on offense"

MDA: "These guys already know to shoot it if they're open"

D coach: "oooo k" (inner confusion)


Hopefully at this point the D coach will be making trips to the front office to talk about the simple strategies on offense. (that's my pipe dream i guess)

What I find interesting is some people (not you specifically) talk about the "Yes Men" aspect but in the same breath beg for Herb Williams (one of the alleged Yes Men) to become head coach.

If MDA goes, so too should his whole staff. That includes Herb Williams. I don't really believe in firing a head coach and retaining assistants - for the most part.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Awww...

Baby angry because he was shown wrong?

It's okay man...

You really need to take a chill pill. I wasn't taking credit, I wasn't attacking anyone. You just took it way too personal. Living life like that will cause an early heart attack. It's a message board, chill out.

How can I be angry at getting what I want? I just know how to tell the truth and see through bullsh*t. I wish I could say the same about you and others.

Doesn't matter though. I have a singular goal, rid me of Mike. This is another step in that direction. It indicates what we've said here for years.

After a shortended season, that's it for him. If he wants to adapt and we achieve, I'm good with that, but my memory works fine, and so does my ability to give credit when due.

You and Trill get absolutely no props in comparison to the "novice" view points and assessments made.

That being Defense wins, Mike doesn't measure up, a change is needed. You weren't saying that. So toot your horn when appropriate.
 
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