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Thread: Right Back Where We Started... Still NEED a BIG

  1. #16
    Veteran AmareForPresident's Avatar
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    We should sign him to a 800,000 1yr contract with a team option.

  2. #17
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    I think it begins with D'Antoni.

    By that I mean we have manifested this culture of "wait til'" so and so becomes available

    That there is this "perfect" mix of talents NEEDED in order to succeed

    And in a way- we have already manufactured the excuses for D'Antoni going forward.

    Say for instance we DO get a big. And IF we struggle, for whatever reason, it has been manufatured that WE (D'Antoni) NEED A PG to be successful

    OR if we DO get a PG, and struggle, some will say WE (D'antoni) NEED A center to be successful

    The brainwashing that has taken over and replaced our underachieving reputation, has been to the tune of HOPE

    But really it's a shell game that we need to realize we can't win. That "perfect" roster for D'Antoni is UNACHIEVABLE! Specifically in regards to D'Antoni, its impossible.

    We need a coach, who looks at our roster and says "I can work with that". That recognizes talent and is flexible enough to work with less than desireable parts. One that gets more than we bargained for out of players.

    I'll show you how this brainwashing has taken place.

    We just read about the select few players available. AND WHAT WAS THE FIRST THOUGHT?

    1. I wonder if he would work with D'Antoni?
    2. I wonder if D'Antoni would play him?
    3. What if D'Antoni doesn't play him?
    4. Ho can we get him and still ge CP3?

    These questions illustrate how the brainwashing has affected your rational thought. Because the answer to "who this mystery perfect fit for D'Antoni's system is" is...

    NO ONE.

    That answers why he dnp'd and jettsoned players, skipped them in the draft, and why no center has flourished under him. Its too logical. There is no center for him.

    And instead of realizing this, realizing he hasplayed this shell game buying time by in a not so obvious way creating this built-in excuse for himself "that his system is so good, we just need the right players"

    Is bullsh!t.

    Before we can decide who fits best and who to get, who to pass on, how to effectively us our assets (some he squandered just like Isaiah just wasn't as responsible for the bad contracts)

    We need to get out from under him before we do more damage. While we still can.

    That's why I think its futile to target any players for now. He has to go. A coach with an attainable vision and plan is what will help us deermine who's best. Without D'Antoni, those decisions use to be easy- like Melo.

    With D'Antoni, some actually had the nerve to question his acquisition. That's what thinking and seeing things thru the D'Antoni glasses will do to you. It'll have you drafting a SF over a center even though

    We had sf's on the roster
    A center is a rare commodity
    And we haven't been in a good draft position in years.

    I'm not sure I will ever forget that mistake.

  3. #18
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    I think it begins with D'Antoni.

    By that I mean we have manifested this culture of "wait til'" so and so becomes available

    That there is this "perfect" mix of talents NEEDED in order to succeed

    And in a way- we have already manufactured the excuses for D'Antoni going forward.

    Say for instance we DO get a big. And IF we struggle, for whatever reason, it has been manufatured that WE (D'Antoni) NEED A PG to be successful

    OR if we DO get a PG, and struggle, some will say WE (D'antoni) NEED A center to be successful

    The brainwashing that has taken over and replaced our underachieving reputation, has been to the tune of HOPE

    But really it's a shell game that we need to realize we can't win. That "perfect" roster for D'Antoni is UNACHIEVABLE! Specifically in regards to D'Antoni, its impossible.

    We need a coach, who looks at our roster and says "I can work with that". That recognizes talent and is flexible enough to work with less than desireable parts. One that gets more than we bargained for out of players.

    I'll show you how this brainwashing has taken place.

    We just read about the select few players available. AND WHAT WAS THE FIRST THOUGHT?

    1. I wonder if he would work with D'Antoni?
    2. I wonder if D'Antoni would play him?
    3. What if D'Antoni doesn't play him?
    4. Ho can we get him and still ge CP3?

    These questions illustrate how the brainwashing has affected your rational thought. Because the answer to "who this mystery perfect fit for D'Antoni's system is" is...

    NO ONE.

    That answers why he dnp'd and jettsoned players, skipped them in the draft, and why no center has flourished under him. Its too logical. There is no center for him.

    And instead of realizing this, realizing he hasplayed this shell game buying time by in a not so obvious way creating this built-in excuse for himself "that his system is so good, we just need the right players"

    Is bullsh!t.

    Before we can decide who fits best and who to get, who to pass on, how to effectively us our assets (some he squandered just like Isaiah just wasn't as responsible for the bad contracts)

    We need to get out from under him before we do more damage. While we still can.

    That's why I think its futile to target any players for now. He has to go. A coach with an attainable vision and plan is what will help us deermine who's best. Without D'Antoni, those decisions use to be easy- like Melo.

    With D'Antoni, some actually had the nerve to question his acquisition. That's what thinking and seeing things thru the D'Antoni glasses will do to you. It'll have you drafting a SF over a center even though

    We had sf's on the roster
    A center is a rare commodity
    And we haven't been in a good draft position in years.

    I'm not sure I will ever forget that mistake.
    Excellent post.

    Also, we know D'Antoni isn't a good defensive coach, but I don't think he's even a good OFFENSIVE coach. You know who is? Steve Nash. I don't see any other explanation. The guy is also STUBBORN. Marbury was no angel, but I wouldn't put it past D'Antoni that he was just trying to make his mark there right away. We saw stupid benchings of Nate, Douglas, Jordan Hill, etc., all guys who could have been VERY useful with the roster we had. He had to start Duhon though, because he thought any pass-first PG under his genius mentoring would make him as good as Nash.

    Also, I'm glad we drafted Gallo, but would it surprise anyone if we passed up on PGs and Cs because of D'Antoni being his godfather?

    I don't want to give him the boot, but I do want him to be an assistant and have a good head coach take over. No more of him making big decisions.

    Who knows WHAT would have became of our roster with Jrue Holiday, DeAndre Jordan, etc. plus cap space.
    Last edited by RunningJumper; May 16, 2011 at 19:50.

  4. #19
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
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    I want DA gone just as much as most here; preferably before the start of next season. But we have a glaring need for a big man or two; especially someone to relieve Amare & keep him from breaking down by the end of the season. Sean Williams is low risk high reward since he'd be coming from the D-League & he'd get signed to a low contract. Big men like him are hard to come by. We all know DA's days are numbered, so I'd rather scoop Sean Williams up before another contender does.

  5. #20
    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    Just judging from MDA's rotation patterns, he doesn't seem to favor playing guys with a low basketball IQ. Sean Williams, while he would be a big upgrade defensively as a shotblocker, seems like a pretty dim bulb when it comes to basketball smarts. I don't think he's the type of player that would get any playing time under this head coach. Robin Lopez is an interesting option though. He already knows the SSOL system from his days in Phoenix & already has experience playing with STAT. If the Knicks could get him for Bill Walker + cash like the article suggests, I think it's a worthwhile gamble to take. His contract won't hurt the Knicks flexibility wise either in 2012. Seems like a natural fit. Other than that, I think Jeff Foster seems like a natural fit option having ties to Donnie Walsh during his days in Indy. Seems like the type of savvy vet that would get playing time under this head coach too for that matter.

  6. #21
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    Just judging from MDA's rotation patterns, he doesn't seem to favor playing guys with a low basketball IQ. Sean Williams, while he would be a big upgrade defensively as a shotblocker, seems like a pretty dim bulb when it comes to basketball smarts. I don't think he's the type of player that would get any playing time under this head coach. Robin Lopez is an interesting option though. He already knows the SSOL system from his days in Phoenix & already has experience playing with STAT. If the Knicks could get him for Bill Walker + cash like the article suggests, I think it's a worthwhile gamble to take. His contract won't hurt the Knicks flexibility wise either in 2012. Seems like a natural fit. Other than that, I think Jeff Foster seems like a natural fit option having ties to Donnie Walsh during his days in Indy. Seems like the type of savvy vet that would get playing time under this head coach too for that matter.
    No, no, no. Trust me. He hasn't shown anything other than the last game of the season against the Spurs. I had League Pass. He's not worth giving up Bill Walker.

  7. #22
    Veteran AmareForPresident's Avatar
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    I think MDA will be gone after next season... If there is a next season.

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    I think MDA will be gone after next season... If there is a next season.
    I think I agree with this, unless the Knicks have an insane season...I don't think Dolan is going to risk 2 coaches on the payroll when there is a chance there is no basketball at all next year.

  9. #24
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    No, no, no. Trust me. He hasn't shown anything other than the last game of the season against the Spurs. I had League Pass. He's not worth giving up Bill Walker.
    Agreed he seems like a soft rebounder just like his brother, I don't see how he can help us. I wouldn't mind trading for Pietrus though, as long as he's not too expensive. Or maybe somehow we can get Jared Dudley? He's a great shooter and a good defender.

  10. #25
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    Agreed he seems like a soft rebounder just like his brother, I don't see how he can help us. I wouldn't mind trading for Pietrus though, as long as he's not too expensive. Or maybe somehow we can get Jared Dudley? He's a great shooter and a good defender.
    Pietrus and Dudley are good players. Like Carter on the Magic on Suns though, they shoot too many threes maybe because of the coaching/style. Dudley is consistent with his shooting, but I'm weary on what he'd do with D'Antoni here. Either would be good either way, hopefully they would be consistent, if we COULD get them. Suns fans are pretty high on Dudley so I don't know if our chances would be slim.

  11. #26
    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    No, no, no. Trust me. He hasn't shown anything other than the last game of the season against the Spurs. I had League Pass. He's not worth giving up Bill Walker.
    I would give up Bill Walker for a 2nd round pick at this point. I don't think he's part of a winning formula going forward. His effort level is highly inconsistent & he doesn't use even a fraction of his athletic potential in his game, always settling for easy 3 point shots from behind the arc. He needs a different coach to get the most out of him, he will never realize any of his potential playing for a coach who lets him take the lazy way out on every possession by chucking up 3's everytime he touches the ball.

  12. #27
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    I would give up Bill Walker for a 2nd round pick at this point. I don't think he's part of a winning formula going forward. His effort level is highly inconsistent & he doesn't use even a fraction of his athletic potential in his game, always settling for easy 3 point shots from behind the arc. He needs a different coach to get the most out of him, he will never realize any of his potential playing for a coach who lets him take the lazy way out on every possession by chucking up 3's everytime he touches the ball.
    He actually was a bright spot in the Playoffs.

    I hear a lot about these inconsistencies about him, but I never have gotten it. A lot of that said is about him in games he doesn't play more than a few minutes or less.

  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by Red
    I think it begins with D'Antoni.

    By that I mean we have manifested this culture of "wait til'" so and so becomes available

    That there is this "perfect" mix of talents NEEDED in order to succeed

    And in a way- we have already manufactured the excuses for D'Antoni going forward.

    Say for instance we DO get a big. And IF we struggle, for whatever reason, it has been manufatured that WE (D'Antoni) NEED A PG to be successful

    OR if we DO get a PG, and struggle, some will say WE (D'antoni) NEED A center to be successful

    The brainwashing that has taken over and replaced our underachieving reputation, has been to the tune of HOPE

    But really it's a shell game that we need to realize we can't win. That "perfect" roster for D'Antoni is UNACHIEVABLE! Specifically in regards to D'Antoni, its impossible.

    We need a coach, who looks at our roster and says "I can work with that". That recognizes talent and is flexible enough to work with less than desireable parts. One that gets more than we bargained for out of players.

    I'll show you how this brainwashing has taken place.

    We just read about the select few players available. AND WHAT WAS THE FIRST THOUGHT?

    1. I wonder if he would work with D'Antoni?
    2. I wonder if D'Antoni would play him?
    3. What if D'Antoni doesn't play him?
    4. Ho can we get him and still ge CP3?

    These questions illustrate how the brainwashing has affected your rational thought. Because the answer to "who this mystery perfect fit for D'Antoni's system is" is...

    NO ONE.

    That answers why he dnp'd and jettsoned players, skipped them in the draft, and why no center has flourished under him. Its too logical. There is no center for him.

    And instead of realizing this, realizing he hasplayed this shell game buying time by in a not so obvious way creating this built-in excuse for himself "that his system is so good, we just need the right players"

    Is bullsh!t.

    Before we can decide who fits best and who to get, who to pass on, how to effectively us our assets (some he squandered just like Isaiah just wasn't as responsible for the bad contracts)

    We need to get out from under him before we do more damage. While we still can.

    That's why I think its futile to target any players for now. He has to go. A coach with an attainable vision and plan is what will help us deermine who's best. Without D'Antoni, those decisions use to be easy- like Melo.

    With D'Antoni, some actually had the nerve to question his acquisition. That's what thinking and seeing things thru the D'Antoni glasses will do to you. It'll have you drafting a SF over a center even though

    We had sf's on the roster
    A center is a rare commodity
    And we haven't been in a good draft position in years.

    I'm not sure I will ever forget that mistake.
    RED you are right on point. You have said everything anyone needs to know about this situation. I just hope the Knicks management team realize what we as fans do.

    There is absolutely no roster that can be constructed by the Knicks that's going to satisfy everything this coach THINKS HE NEEDS. All the shuffling bigs, DNP-CD with players, and just the blatant not knowing what he has (REMEMBER MOZ AND I"M NOT GOING TO UPSET MY APPLECART) to work with is enough to get almost any coach run out of town. Regardless of contract status.

    Why WASTE another year? Odds are we wont win a chip with or without MOA in 2011-2012. BUT, hiring the right kind of coach can have us in much better position to win one the following year. Hopefully this is something Walsh and Dolan are discussing.

    I've tried hard to look at this objectively since the Knicks season ended, and I think I've been honest with myself. I see no advantage at all in bringing MOA back. NONE...

  14. #29
    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    He actually was a bright spot in the Playoffs.

    I hear a lot about these inconsistencies about him, but I never have gotten it. A lot of that said is about him in games he doesn't play more than a few minutes or less.
    He didn't look too bright to me when he went 0 for 11 & MDA stuck with him for 32 minutes in game 2. He's lucky Landry looked so God awful, you hardly noticed Bill Walker at all.

  15. #30
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    He didn't look too bright to me when he went 0 for 11 & MDA stuck with him for 32 minutes in game 2. He's lucky Landry looked so God awful, you hardly noticed Bill Walker at all.
    The only thing about Walker is he is on a cheap contract option, and we need that to fill the 12man roster.

    I think we were set back for multiple reasons, that's my actual beef. That accordng to my calculations we should have realistically made the playoffs LAST YEAR, then competed this year in the 2nd rnd.

    However, a more accurate view of our jettisoned players is this...

    THEY WERE NOT STARTERS, at least Felton was the only one. On a real contender, Gallo and Chandler (compared to Melo) would be coming of the bench- so yes we lost depth

    But NOT just because of the trade, we lost depth PARTLY due to D'Antoni. It was HIM who decided to not play and develop assets that HE wasted on the bench. Brewer and Randoplh come to mind, and we can throw in Barron because D'Antoni rathered Jeffries.

    That said our needs =

    1 & 5- the 5 HAS to be prioritzed over the 1. Centers are a rare commodity

    2- Fields either steps it up or is replaced in the starting line-up. HE IS AND WAS A NATURAL 3, forced to play out of position, and he doesn't have a 2 game.

    Bench-depth.

    Our only assets are Fields, Walker once we resign him, and Balkman.... and our 17th pick

    With this IF we follow the D'Antoni model, we will gamble another season to target a free agent before trading assets and investing for the immediate future, because D'Antoni has conveyed that he NEEDS a specific player type

    And that he is more than willing to sacrifice the good of the team in order to buy time for an improbable acquisition.

    Take off the D'antoni goggles, and it becomes obvious that waitng is no longer an option. Time to find a real complimentary piece and sacrifice money to get someone who ISN'T a rental.

    That's how winning teams are built. Core, then cheap efficient compliments. Fields could be one, but when we take the D'Antoni glasses of, he means nothing compared to the missing man in the middle. With the D'Antoni model, we mind as well play Balkman at center, and root for CP3, an exciting regular 2013 season, and a gut-wrenching early playoff exit.

    Even the Heat need Bigs! Hello!

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