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Thread: So those also in favor of getting a PG/C instead of a max, which two do you want?

  1. #16
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    Originally Posted by amazinz5
    chauncey and fields (and walker/douglas if necessary) for felton and timo
    sounds perfect..

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    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    This.
    People are trying to find any little thing to fire D'antoni.
    That's like looking for a tree in a forest.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Thats funny because the very star players you mentioned came aboard with D'antoni as coach. But of course, they dont count because it doesn't fit into your fact free conspiracy theories! Of course you are right, Billups, Amare and Melo have not yet attracted any star since they came on board at the deadline...
    Hummm....

    Wonder if $100mil and a trade inclusion had anything to do with that?

    After all I recall someone saying Billups didn't even want to be here.

    Oh yeah... I forgot... we hired D'Antoni because he's a players coach.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    Hummm....

    Wonder if $100mil and a trade inclusion had anything to do with that?

    After all I recall someone saying Billups didn't even want to be here.

    Oh yeah... I forgot... we hired D'Antoni because he's a players coach.
    Damn dude you stay stalking me!



    Notice the RED complexion!

    STAT would have gotten 100 Mil from multiple teams and is a max money player. (the Suns are a notoriously cheap poorly ran franchise who regrets ever letting him go) Melo could have gone to several teams but made it clear he wanted NYC. Billups is 34 and a Denver native that desired NO other team but his home town. I know none of these inconvenient truths jive with you distortions but too bad.

    So again 2 of 3 players willingly came here knowing who our coach was(and still support him!) therefore Kiyas comment is just yet another of his made up conspiracy theories. Further his other comment about Billups, Melo and Amare not being able to lure anyone here is just laughable considering that they were acquired at the deadline. I suspect you know this but couldn't help yourself because you are seeking my attention...

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    Default Trade for a 2nd draft pick

    This is the key concept I think.

    There is only one top center in the draft (Enes Kanter). The 2nd best center is Lucas Noguiera, projected as mid- to late- 20s, so don't waste the #17 pick unless K Faried is gone by then. The PGs available at #17 are not very exciting either, unless maybe Fredette. But Reggie Jackson is not the point guard of the future.

    So taking Faried at #17 and trading to get Noguiera is the best plan.

    I would take a chance on Oden, but the risks are obvious. Dalembert as a stop-gap until Noguiera is ready (and possible trade chip if we have to take Okafor in the Chirs Paul deal) makes more sense to me.

    If we sign DeAndre Jordan or Marc Gasol, I do not see us ever getting a point guard to succeed Billups (even the 2014 draft seems unlikely, we will not be picking high enough). All we would get is veterans at the minimum. The only way I sign either of these, is if the Hornets specifically tell us that they would covet that player.

    Stocking up on young bigs with upside (Faried, Noguiera, and JJordan), along with a cheap short-term veteran (Dalembert) seems like the right plan. Then we have a real shot at a Stat/Melo/CP3 big three and some young bigs, a defensive enforcer in Faried, a solid all-around high IQ team player SG in Fields, now you are talkin' baby......
    Last edited by nixon7; May 13, 2011 at 15:33. Reason: clarification

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Damn dude you stay stalking me!



    Notice the RED complexion!

    STAT would have gotten 100 Mil from multiple teams and is a max money player. (the Suns are a notoriously cheap poorly ran franchise who regrets ever letting him go) Melo could have gone to several teams but made it clear he wanted NYC. Billups is 34 and a Denver native that desired NO other team but his home town. I know none of these inconvenient truths jive with you distortions but too bad.

    So again 2 of 3 players willingly came here knowing who our coach was(and still support him!) therefore Kiyas comment is just yet another of his made up conspiracy theories. Further his other comment about Billups, Melo and Amare not being able to lure anyone here is just laughable considering that they were acquired at the deadline. I suspect you know this but couldn't help yourself because you are seeking my attention...
    Yep, sounds good.

    The reality and response to your assertion is not at all.
    Kiya does have a point, and I agree with him.

    We can all do without your infinite conspiracy theory responses towards Kiya,

    And then attempting to label me a stalker. What does that make you?

    Anywhoooo, again he has a point, as time goes by, D'antoni's rep tanks. Period. The reputation these vets have around the league goes further than Mike's at this point.

    If THEY don't agree with him, which as much posting quotes you reference from the media WON'T show, players will value their opinion.

    And from what I can tell, no one including Amare believes a campionship can be won this way.

    Let me stop you now from posting Amare in the media saying "the system works" Melo or whoever need to buy in. That's called being politically correct and partly the truth.

    WHOEVER coaches, the players have to buy in- that's obvious. Just as the quotes from players without need to support Mike to impress him or show loyalty (Melo & CB).

    The 1st chance they got, they vented their frustrations and ambiguously detracted from this system. Because they know it does work.

    FURTHER, they realize its not realistic to get what's needed to at least have a partial chance of winning.

    So yeah, Kiya has a valid point. You think you and I are the only ones prevy to Mike's soon to expire contract? Think again.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    Yep, sounds good.

    The reality and response to your assertion is not at all.
    Kiya does have a point, and I agree with him.

    We can all do without your infinite conspiracy theory responses towards Kiya,

    And then attempting to label me a stalker. What does that make you?

    Anywhoooo, again he has a point, as time goes by, D'antoni's rep tanks. Period. The reputation these vets have around the league goes further than Mike's at this point.

    If THEY don't agree with him, which as much posting quotes you reference from the media WON'T show, players will value their opinion.

    And from what I can tell, no one including Amare believes a campionship can be won this way.

    Let me stop you now from posting Amare in the media saying "the system works" Melo or whoever need to buy in. That's called being politically correct and partly the truth.

    WHOEVER coaches, the players have to buy in- that's obvious. Just as the quotes from players without need to support Mike to impress him or show loyalty (Melo & CB).

    The 1st chance they got, they vented their frustrations and ambiguously detracted from this system. Because they know it does work.

    FURTHER, they realize its not realistic to get what's needed to at least have a partial chance of winning.

    So yeah, Kiya has a valid point. You think you and I are the only ones prevy to Mike's soon to expire contract? Think again.
    You only agree with his "point" because it conforms to your ever present agenda of attacking our coach from every possible angle. The fact that it is a made up point that is clearly demonstrated by the addition of Melo and Billups does not matter to you because again it fits your agenda. Further, if everyone is privy to MDA's expiring wouldn't that actually contradict Kiya's assertion that no one will join our team because of coach? (again ignoring that 3 stars did actually come here) I'd tell you to "think again" but that would require thinking in the first place...

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    You only agree with his "point" because it conforms to your ever present agenda of attacking our coach from every possible angle. The fact that it is a made up point that is clearly demonstrated by the addition of Melo and Billups does not matter to you because again it fits your agenda. Furtheru, if everyone is privy to MDA's expiring wouldn't that actually contradict Kiya's assertion that no one will join our team because of coach? (again ignoring that 3 stars did actually come here) I'd tell you to "think again" but that would require thinking in the first place...
    No, I agree because it makes sense. The 2011 Mike is an exposed version of his former self.

    Again, what "happened" isn't what Kiya was referring to. He's speculating on what will happen AFTER seeing what happened. Make the distinction.

    While your at it, tell the truth, every one of our big city three had an incintive ABOVE Mike's influence.

    Amare last shot at a max. Uninsurable.
    Melo last shot at max before cba, getting out of Denver
    Billups, throw away for cap relief

    What part did Mike play in this besides Amare being familiar with him?

    You would have a point if they were free agents who CHOSE us over another team, and stated they did so b/c of Mike...

    But that simply isn't the case

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    Originally Posted by Red
    No, I agree because it makes sense. The 2011 Mike is an exposed version of his former self.

    Again, what "happened" isn't what Kiya was referring to. He's speculating on what will happen AFTER seeing what happened. Make the distinction.

    While your at it, tell the truth, every one of our big city three had an incintive ABOVE Mike's influence.

    Amare last shot at a max. Uninsurable.
    Melo last shot at max before cba, getting out of Denver
    Billups, throw away for cap relief

    What part did Mike play in this besides Amare being familiar with him?

    You would have a point if they were free agents who CHOSE us over another team, and stated they did so b/c of Mike...

    But that simply isn't the case
    No no, see this is where you get it twisted! Kiya is the one making an assertion not me. I never said they came here BECAUSE of MDA therefore I am not obliged to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you and Kiya who are asserting that his being here actually HURTS our recruiting chances.

    Further Kiya has been saying the same thing for 3 years so don't try and pretend he is somehow talking about a newly "exposed" MDA.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    No, I agree because it makes sense. The 2011 Mike is an exposed version of his former self.

    Again, what "happened" isn't what Kiya was referring to. He's speculating on what will happen AFTER seeing what happened. Make the distinction.

    While your at it, tell the truth, every one of our big city three had an incintive ABOVE Mike's influence.

    Amare last shot at a max. Uninsurable.
    Melo last shot at max before cba, getting out of Denver
    Billups, throw away for cap relief

    What part did Mike play in this besides Amare being familiar with him?

    You would have a point if they were free agents who CHOSE us over another team, and stated they did so b/c of Mike...

    But that simply isn't the case
    Really? Yeah because the Nets & other teams didn't want him right? I think Trillion's point is that why would Melo tell Denver back in December that the only team that he would accept a trade to is the Knicks if he knew MDA was our coach?

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Amare, Melo, and Billups cant recruit Dalembert as long as Dantoni is
    the Knicks headcoach. The 3-Star-Players has no wins at recruiting
    any decent player with Dantoni style of coaching.

    Plus they have bigger competitors in Boston Big-3, and Miami Big-3
    in the super-star recruiting FA war in the offseason.
    I actually believe young Durant & Westbrook power at recruiting players
    is 100 times stronger than the Knicks b/c we have Dantoni as our
    headcoach.....small-ball, small-rotation, no-defense, and a no-closer-plan.
    When it comes to BIG MEN, has this NOT been an issue? Isn't it safe to assume players and their agents are fully aware of the plight of:

    David Lee- Double double season, forced to play out of position, NOT resigned for under a max contract

    Z-Bo- Unappreciated like Lee, jettisoned to save $

    AR- Unappreciated, not used, DNP'd, traded

    Milicic- Unappreciated, not used, DNP'd, traded

    Hill- drafted, not used, shi**ed on in media, traded

    The stability and potential of OKC, the historic poor use and appreciation towards, and the "other" reasons surrounding our stars signings taken into account...

    Kiya has a valid point. When a free agent specifically a Big has to decide what's best for him, all things being equal ($), history tells us he may think twice.

    In addition we can point to our MISSED free agent targets last summer, namely Wade, LBJ, Hill, Kidd

    we can speculate PART of their declinations had something to do with D'Antoni in one way, shape, or another.

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    No no, see this is where you get it twisted! Kiya is the one making an assertion not me. I never said they came here BECAUSE of MDA therefore I am not obliged to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you and Kiya who are asserting that his being here actually HURTS our recruiting chances.

    Further Kiya has been saying the same thing for 3 years so don't try and pretend he is somehow talking about a newly "exposed" MDA.
    But SOME of what he's said has come to fruition. We are all just speculating using inference, logic, and reasoning. There is evidence of Kiya being correct as I stated above.

    In fact, you yourself said "with this squad D'Antoni isn't the right coach". I assume that you acknowledge his style and subsequent player relations (playing time etc...) and feel there is a better fit.

    why not assume the players feel the same way?

    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    Really? Yeah because the Nets & other teams didn't want him right? I think Trillion's point is that why would Melo tell Denver back in December that the only team that he would accept a trade to is the Knicks if he knew MDA was our coach?
    Yeah they wanted him, and as he said he was going somewhere for that max$, even considered staying in DEN. So just as I cant say there is evidence he chose us because of Mike or you cant say he didn't chose anyone else because of Mike

    regardless there was evidence of an alterior motive. and I'd bet he knows exactly how long Mike has left on his contract.

    Wanting to play for a team is different than wanting to play for an coach, just as this system is looked at different by different position players.

    Kiya asserted BIG men, NON max players- the ones we assume will want to take less to join our duo/trio

    So far WITHOUT our stars, when it was JUST D'Antoni being sold with our grand plans.... WE FAILED. WE COULDN'T EVEN GET AN EXPERIENCED DAVID LEE TO COMPROMISE... and he claimed he would take less to stay, because he loved us so much.

    HE knew the plan, he could of joined, but the dough NOT D'Antoni was the deciding factor- as is the case with MOST players.

    The situation of signing a free agent at a premium is thwarted for us because

    1. players use us to boost their value
    2. we are desperate
    3. Mike ISNT really a players coach- he has caused controversy with many players

    We're going to have to pay (over pay) to get what we want, partly due to the squandered opportunities we missed, and partly due to Mike's soiled reputation- especially with bigs.

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