Nixon7's Roadmap

[nixon7]

Well you stopped reading short of understanding my proposal.

The deal was Dalembert ($5M), Billups ($14M), Turiaf ($4M), Toney Douglas ($1.1M), and one of the young bigs (Noguiera, Faried, or Jerome Jordan) for Okafor ($11M) and CP3 ($14M). Also, the assumption was not that the Knicks want Okafor, but that the Hornets would force him into the deal to dump his long-term contract. I am sure we would prefer a deal without Okafor (your comment about "their starting center" seemed to assume that we want Okafor, not that the Hornets would be forcing him upon us).

Maybe you think that is still a deal that the Hornets do not take, but it is not a straight two for two swap (Dalembert/Billups for Okafor/CP3 - that does not work under the cap rules, as the rest of the thread made plain) that you (mis)represented. It is easy to cast aspersions at straw dogs.

Also, remember that this is so that the Hornets don't simply lose CP3 and get nothing. CP3 can prevent other teams from making competing offers, just like Carmelo did. Of course, some other team that CP3 wants to go to may make an offer, but I do not think that will be the Lakers (who will be offering Bynum, Odom, and some other players for Dwight Howard).

The real threat to the Knicks will be a team with a lot of young players and draft picks. But as we saw with New Jersey, CP3 may not want to go to such a team. The biggest threat is Oklahoma City if they give up Westbrook and some of their young bigs.

[ronoranina]

The thing about the CP3 trade is.. if he tells the NOH front office he only wants to go to the Knicks at the deadline there aren't many other options for them. No team is going to want him as a rental.. NOH would have to deal with us.

There won't be any escape hatch team like NJ because there won't need to be.

There's will not be any threat of a new CBA creating urgency for Paul and the need for another team.

If he wants to come to the Knicks and it can work financially somehow, it should happen w/ out exorbitant cost to us.

We should really have the upper hand if a trade goes down.

[DieHardPassion]

I know everyone is second guessing and trying to map out the best case scenario for the Knicks. But I think if we're going to talk about this we should talk about what Walsh would do. That old bastard has already brought four of the five pieces to a championship caliber team. He's going to finish that task whether we like it or not and Chris Paul or Dwight Howard is the final piece to that puzzle. So guys lets forget about Deandre Jordan and Marc Gasol since they're too expensive and seem like franchise players.
Now the debate is whether you're shooting for Paul or Howard. Walsh will pick up Dalembert, Kristic, or a Center both as a safety for Howard and potential trading chip. The Knicks will draft a point guard as a safety for Paul and potential trading chip. The Knicks will resign players under 2 million. Then when the season starts the hunt for a superstar continues from this past season. There's a lot of risk to Walsh's plan but like this past season we'll have legitimate safeties on our rosters if we don't get our man.

Following Walsh's plan the ideal scenario would be:
Knicks draft Jimmer Fredette or Nolan Smith
Knicks Sign Dalembert and Grant Hill
Knicks resign Shawne Williams, Jarred Jeffries, Anthony Carter
Knicks season to trade deadline: playing .600 ball
Knicks trade Jimmer Fredette or Nolan Smith, Toney Douglas, Billups, Shawne Williams, Jerome Jordan or Bill walker, 2 future first round picks, 2 second round picks
For
Chris Paul and Jarrett Jack and expendables

OR

Knicks trade Billups, Toney Douglas, Samuel Dalembert, Jerome Jordan, Landry Fields, 3 future first round picks, 3 second round picks
For
Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkologue or Gilbert Arenas and expendables

Lakers can offer better assets but why would a team like Orlando and Lakers take back a player that's worse than Paul and Howard for the same price? Example: Pau Gasol or Bynum and other pieces for Howard. Magics already have enough other pieces.
Hornets need a point guard back from a trade for Paul which Lakers don't have.

Walsh has this all figured out...

[ronoranina]

I know everyone is second guessing and trying to map out the best case scenario for the Knicks. But I think if we're going to talk about this we should talk about what Walsh would do. That old bastard has already brought four of the five pieces to a championship caliber team. He's going to finish that task whether we like it or not and Chris Paul or Dwight Howard is the final piece to that puzzle. So guys lets forget about Deandre Jordan and Marc Gasol since they're too expensive and seem like franchise players.
Now the debate is whether you're shooting for Paul or Howard. Walsh will pick up Dalembert, Kristic, or a Center both as a safety for Howard and potential trading chip. The Knicks will draft a point guard as a safety for Paul and potential trading chip. The Knicks will resign players under 2 million. Then when the season starts the hunt for a superstar continues from this past season. There's a lot of risk to Walsh's plan but like this past season we'll have legitimate safeties on our rosters if we don't get our man.

Following Walsh's plan the ideal scenario would be:
Knicks draft Jimmer Fredette or Nolan Smith
Knicks Sign Dalembert and Grant Hill
Knicks resign Shawne Williams, Jarred Jeffries, Anthony Carter
Knicks season to trade deadline: playing .600 ball
Knicks trade Jimmer Fredette or Nolan Smith, Toney Douglas, Billups, Shawne Williams, Jerome Jordan or Bill walker, 2 future first round picks, 2 second round picks
For
Chris Paul and Jarrett Jack and expendables

OR

Knicks trade Billups, Toney Douglas, Samuel Dalembert, Jerome Jordan, Landry Fields, 3 future first round picks, 3 second round picks
For
Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkologue or Gilbert Arenas and expendables

Lakers can offer better assets but why would a team like Orlando and Lakers take back a player that's worse than Paul and Howard for the same price? Example: Pau Gasol or Bynum and other pieces for Howard. Magics already have enough other pieces.
Hornets need a point guard back from a trade for Paul which Lakers don't have.

Walsh has this all figured out...

Good food for thought here..

[RunningJumper]

I know everyone is second guessing and trying to map out the best case scenario for the Knicks. But I think if we're going to talk about this we should talk about what Walsh would do. That old bastard has already brought four of the five pieces to a championship caliber team. He's going to finish that task whether we like it or not and Chris Paul or Dwight Howard is the final piece to that puzzle. So guys lets forget about Deandre Jordan and Marc Gasol since they're too expensive and seem like franchise players.
Now the debate is whether you're shooting for Paul or Howard. Walsh will pick up Dalembert, Kristic, or a Center both as a safety for Howard and potential trading chip. The Knicks will draft a point guard as a safety for Paul and potential trading chip. The Knicks will resign players under 2 million. Then when the season starts the hunt for a superstar continues from this past season. There's a lot of risk to Walsh's plan but like this past season we'll have legitimate safeties on our rosters if we don't get our man.

Following Walsh's plan the ideal scenario would be:
Knicks draft Jimmer Fredette or Nolan Smith
Knicks Sign Dalembert and Grant Hill
Knicks resign Shawne Williams, Jarred Jeffries, Anthony Carter
Knicks season to trade deadline: playing .600 ball
Knicks trade Jimmer Fredette or Nolan Smith, Toney Douglas, Billups, Shawne Williams, Jerome Jordan or Bill walker, 2 future first round picks, 2 second round picks
For
Chris Paul and Jarrett Jack and expendables

OR

Knicks trade Billups, Toney Douglas, Samuel Dalembert, Jerome Jordan, Landry Fields, 3 future first round picks, 3 second round picks
For
Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkologue or Gilbert Arenas and expendables

Lakers can offer better assets but why would a team like Orlando and Lakers take back a player that's worse than Paul and Howard for the same price? Example: Pau Gasol or Bynum and other pieces for Howard. Magics already have enough other pieces.
Hornets need a point guard back from a trade for Paul which Lakers don't have.

Walsh has this all figured out...

Ok, I'm not an expert on the cap, but there's not a CHANCE under this cap or a new cap we could take Gilbert Arenas. Gilbert Arenas is a max. He's making more than Stoudemire.

[nixon7]

I understand Fredette, although I do not like his defense, and I think he will be gone at #17.

There are at least three PGs rated higher than Nolan Smith and lower than #16 pick, and I am not sold on any of them, compared to either Faried or Noguiera.

I never said we should try for Okafor, I was assuming that he would be the price that the Hornets exact.

While I think we are in the driver's seat relative to New Orleans, I also think that there is potential competition out there. In particular, Oklahoma City could offer Westbrook and we have no comparable piece to offer.

While I think CP3 would prefer to be in NY than Oklahoma, they are certainly not a place he would scoff at landing (team potential wise).

Hence I think we need to stockpile bigs so that we have chips in the potential deal, as well as bigs that are useful if we do not get CP3 through a trade.

I do not see any guards aside from Billups that we could acquire as useful chips aside from Fredette (but he is expected to be picked at #13).

However, if a really good PG slips to #17, we would have to consider it over Faried or Noguiera. I just do not want to take a very generic guard (PG or SG) over them.

[Smoove&Melo]

Cp3 will be in nyc book it.

[NewYork 21 Knicks]

i like what starks over jordan had to say, i would love a team like that. we would need an atletic big who can play d better then kristic on the bench and we would be perfect.