Can we kill 2 birds w/ one stone?

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Yes it does, and I don't even think the Nuggets played us to be honest.. We were going to replace Felton with CP3 anyways and Billups has a bigger contract so it can be more useful if a trade goes down, Chandler was gone at the end of the season anyways, so we basically traded Melo for Gallo how is that getting played? I think we can sign Cp3 in free agency especially with a lot of our players contracts expiring in 2012.

If we don't keep Douglas and are able to trade Balkman for an expiring contract we will have approx $44 mil in team salary with only 2 players on the roster. Even if we have enough space to sign CP3 (he agrees to take a lot less), that only leaves us with 3 players and 12 minimum salary players. That is still not enough to win a championship, in my opinion.

Look at how the Bulls just killed the Heat. Why? Because of their bench. I still think a solid bench and role players are more important than CP3.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Idk, I'd hate to think signing Paul in FA isn't possible. I mean, if we signed him for what Billups + Balkman + Turiaf make that'd be, what... bout 19 million. That's not that much less than what Melo and Amare are making.

You're incorrectly assuming we would have $19 mil in cap space. Unless my numbers are wrong, we won't. Please show me where the cap space is and I'll believe it. Until then, I will still be doubtful.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Thats more than what their making.

Really? I thought Melo and Amare both were signed for numbers that start w a 2 going into the 2012- 2013 season..

*edit* Your right. They'll both be making around 19 mil.

Paul would be making about what Melo and Amare get. It'd be nice if he could live w around 18mil.
 
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ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
You're incorrectly assuming we would have $19 mil in cap space. Unless my numbers are wrong, we won't. Please show me where the cap space is and I'll believe it. Until then, I will still be doubtful.

Between Billups, who'll make 14.2 mil and Turiaf who'll earn 4.36 mil, that's 18.56 mil right there coming off our payroll after the 2011-2012 season.

Walker also comes off. He makes 916k.

That brings us to a grand total of 19.47 mil in space barring any huge changes to the CBA.

That's enough to sign Paul as a FA.

Balkman, sadly will be signed through the 2012-13 season..
 

ducktales17

Benchwarmer
I opened this thread planning on giving out a well written proposal on how to murder Jefferies and Dantoni with only 1 bullet.

Then I saw the thread's topic.....
:(
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Between Billups, who'll make 14.2 mil and Turiaf who'll earn 4.36 mil, that's 18.56 mil right there coming off our payroll after the 2011-2012 season.

Walker also comes off. He makes 916k.

That brings us to a grand total of 19.47 mil in space barring any huge changes to the CBA.

That's enough to sign Paul as a FA.

Balkman, sadly will be signed through the 2012-13 season..

This is incorrect. You are assuming we are at or below the cap limit. We are above the cap right now with only 8 players on the roster. Also, Amare and Melo's salaries increase each year. Also, you are not taking into account the minimum roster cap hold.

It's not a 1:1 ratio. The Lakers could have $20 mil coming off their books and still be over the cap. Just because we have $19 mil coming off the books does not mean we have $19 mil in cap space.

We will have approx $44 mil in total team salary in 2012 with ONLY 2 PLAYERYS ON THE ROSTER ($19.45 + $19.95 + $4.75 = $44.15). This is including NOT picking up Douglas' option and somehow trading Balkman for an expiring contract.

The salary cap this year was $58 mil. If the cap stays the same we will have only $14 mil in cap space with just Melo and Amare on the roster. That's $14 mil for CP3 and the rest on minimum salary D-Leage level scrubs at $475,000 per year.

If we keep Douglas and are unable to trade Balkman, we will have approx $47 mil in team salary leaving us with only $11 mil in cap space.

This, ofcourse, is under the assumption the cap will remain the same, which it won't. Some reports say the cap will lower, others say it will rise. There are also some rumors of a hard cap to $70 mil. Which may help us in the short run but is hard for me to believe will help us in the long run.

Hard to predict at this point. The cap rose $1mil (from $57 mil to $58 mil) last year.

I'm sorry to keep bringing up these facts. Everybody doesn't seem to like it and bashes me for bringing up the ugly truth. The numbers don't lie. If everybody would rather not hear the truth, you have the option of blocking my posts or just not reading them.
 
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TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
You mean the exact same scenario we went through with Melo? The one where Denver stood to lose Melo for nothing but we got played into giving up all of our young talent and draft picks?

All this talk is eerily similar to the Melo talk last summer. Everyone said we could get Melo for Chandler + Curry.


Big difference though. CP3 will know the terms of the CBA and his new contract will be under the new CBA either way. The Melo situation was not the norm and there were too many variables for him to chance waiting.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Big difference though. CP3 will know the terms of the CBA and his new contract will be under the new CBA either way. The Melo situation was not the norm and there were too many variables for him to chance waiting.

Yeah. We got played heavily by Melo. Denver and the Nets as well. I think it's pretty obvious what happened. Melo told Denver he would only sign an extension with the Knicks. That's pretty obvious. Or else he would have been traded to the Nets, or any other team for that matter. There were several opportunities throughout the season.

Since teams are not allowed to talk to other teams' players, Denver gave us permission to talk to Melo because Denver felt we were dragging our feet and weren't offering enough. Melo then told us he wouldn't wait until the summer and wanted the extension, fooling us into believing he would go to the Nets and forcing us to give all of our young talent, assets and draft picks.

Thanks Melo!
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Yeah. We got played heavily by Melo. Denver and the Nets as well. I think it's pretty obvious what happened. Melo told Denver he would only sign an extension with the Knicks. That's pretty obvious. Or else he would have been traded to the Nets, or any other team for that matter. There were several opportunities throughout the season.

Since teams are not allowed to talk to other teams' players, Denver gave us permission to talk to Melo because Denver felt we were dragging our feet and weren't offering enough. Melo then told us he wouldn't wait until the summer and wanted the extension, fooling us into believing he would go to the Nets and forcing us to give all of our young talent, assets and draft picks.

Thanks Melo!

We get it...you hate a top 10 player who wanted to play for your team but also wanted to protect himself from an unknown CBA which could come with less money and franchise tags, an unforeseen career ending injury or months more of the speculation and media frenzy.

That said, you did not address my point that the CP3 "decision" will be different because the new CBA will be established. CP3 actually can wait to FA and know exactly what will be waiting for him.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
This is incorrect. You are assuming we are at or below the cap limit. We are above the cap right now with only 8 players on the roster. Also, Amare and Melo's salaries increase each year. Also, you are not taking into account the minimum roster cap hold.

It's not a 1:1 ratio. The Lakers could have $20 mil coming off their books and still be over the cap. Just because we have $19 mil coming off the books does not mean we have $19 mil in cap space.

We will have approx $44 mil in total team salary in 2012 with ONLY 2 PLAYERYS ON THE ROSTER ($19.45 + $19.95 + $4.75 = $44.15). This is including NOT picking up Douglas' option and somehow trading Balkman for an expiring contract.

The salary cap this year was $58 mil. If the cap stays the same we will have only $14 mil in cap space with just Melo and Amare on the roster. That's $14 mil for CP3 and the rest on minimum salary D-Leage level scrubs at $475,000 per year.

If we keep Douglas and are unable to trade Balkman, we will have approx $47 mil in team salary leaving us with only $11 mil in cap space.

This, ofcourse, is under the assumption the cap will remain the same, which it won't. Some reports say the cap will lower, others say it will rise. There are also some rumors of a hard cap to $70 mil. Which may help us in the short run but is hard for me to believe will help us in the long run.

Hard to predict at this point. The cap rose $1mil (from $57 mil to $58 mil) last year.

I'm sorry to keep bringing up these facts. Everybody doesn't seem to like it and bashes me for bringing up the ugly truth. The numbers don't lie. If everybody would rather not hear the truth, you have the option of blocking my posts or just not reading them.

Your right..

I shouldn't have said we'll have 19mil in cap space. But won't we have that money to spend?

And yes we're over the cap now. But explain to me how we're allowed to make a trade at mid season while being over (I think) the cap for Melo and other guys that put us even farther over it??

Say the CBA stayed the same.. Why couldn't we do that in the case of Paul?

The Lakers and other teams are way over the cap and have made similar moves. Isn't Miami over as well? Sh*t half of the league is over the cap. Why are we handcuffed?
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
We get it...you hate a top 10 player who wanted to play for your team but also wanted to protect himself from an unknown CBA which could come with less money and franchise tags, an unforeseen career ending injury or months more of the speculation and media frenzy.

You're a reasonable man, Trill. You'll see, someday. Maybe even as early as this summer.

That said, you did not address my point that the CP3 "decision" will be different because the new CBA will be established. CP3 actually can wait to FA and know exactly what will be waiting for him.

Yes, somewhat different. But not different enough to force New Orleans to give the best PG in the game away for practically nothing. I'm sorry, I just don't see how they would give him away for Fields + our pick from this year, which is all we have to offer. Maybe Douglas too. No picks, nothing. Once again, Kicks fans overvalue their players. Fields looked like crap since the Melo trade, his value is not that high.

Everyone thinks the Hornets will bow down to any demand CP3 gives them because they stand to lose him for nothing. I just don't see it. Call me a hater or whatever you want. But New Orleans would rather go into free agency and receive a trade exception, which has much more value than Fields. This is power in New Orleans favor and works against us and CP3, regardless of whatever his demands may be.

We are also assuming CP3 will demand anything and if he demands a trade that it be it only New York. This is a massively hopeful assumption with no indications at all that he would do such a thing. Given CP3's personality and how he's acted in the past towards the city and management, I don't see him being so selfish and hurtful to that franchise. It doesn't seem to fit his nature.

But, that is just my opinion. Which I'm allowed to state here, even if it isn't the typical blind fan "Melo is God, CP3 will come" banter with no focus on reality that has taken over this site.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
You're a reasonable man, Trill. You'll see, someday. Maybe even as early as this summer.



Yes, somewhat different. But not different enough to force New Orleans to give the best PG in the game away for practically nothing. I'm sorry, I just don't see how they would give him away for Fields + our pick from this year, which is all we have to offer. Maybe Douglas too. No picks, nothing. Once again, Kicks fans overvalue their players. Fields looked like crap since the Melo trade, his value is not that high.

Everyone thinks the Hornets will bow down to any demand CP3 gives them because they stand to lose him for nothing. I just don't see it. Call me a hater or whatever you want. But New Orleans would rather go into free agency and receive a trade exception, which has much more value than Fields. This is power in New Orleans favor and works against us and CP3, regardless of whatever his demands may be.

We are also assuming CP3 will demand anything and if he demands a trade that it be it only New York. This is a massively hopeful assumption with no indications at all that he would do such a thing. Given CP3's personality and how he's acted in the past towards the city and management, I don't see him being so selfish and hurtful to that franchise. It doesn't seem to fit his nature.

But, that is just my opinion. Which I'm allowed to state here, even if it isn't the typical blind fan "Melo is God, CP3 will come" banter with no focus on reality that has taken over this site.


1. Melo is not god but he is certainly better than you have been giving him credit for.
2. You fault Melo unfairly for wanting to secure his future and not look like an ass to Denver.
3. I never stated CP3 will demand a trade here I only made mention to a difference with regards to the CBA that went unmentioned.
4. We have more trade bait then just Fields and that includes future picks and expiring contracts.
5. I am by no means trying to assert that CP3 is a lock or even likely and again only pointed out a difference and defense with regards to Melo.
6. Calm down.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Your right..

I shouldn't have said we'll have 19mil in cap space. But won't we have that money to spend?

And yes we're over the cap now. But explain to me how we're allowed to make a trade at mid season while being over (I think) the cap for Melo and other guys that put us even farther over it??

Say the CBA stayed the same.. Why couldn't we do that in the case of Paul?

The Lakers and other teams are way over the cap and have made similar moves. Isn't Miami over as well? Sh*t half of the league is over the cap. Why are we handcuffed?

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. I think you misunderstand how cap space and being under the cap works.

When a team is under the cap, the only money they are allowed to spend on free agents is the dollar amount under the cap they are at. They cannot go over the cap to sign free agents.

Teams over the cap at the beginning of free agency are only allowed to sign free agents to the MLE. The MLE in the past has been around $5 mil - $6 mil per year.

So, if we want to sign CP3, our total team salary needs to be under the cap by the amount CP3 will sign for.

I hope this clarifies your questions.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. I think you misunderstand how cap space and being under the cap works.

When a team is under the cap, the only money they are allowed to spend on free agents is the dollar amount under the cap they are at. They cannot go over the cap to sign free agents.

Teams over the cap at the beginning of free agency are only allowed to sign free agents to the MLE. The MLE in the past has been around $5 mil - $6 mil per year.

So, if we want to sign CP3, our total team salary needs to be under the cap by the amount CP3 will sign for.

I hope this clarifies your questions.

Or via a sign-n-trade which will allow us to go over the cap.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
1. Melo is not god but he is certainly better than you have been giving him credit for.
2. You fault Melo unfairly for wanting to secure his future and not look like an ass to Denver.
3. I never stated CP3 will demand a trade here I only made mention to a difference with regards to the CBA that went unmentioned.
4. We have more trade bait then just Fields and that includes future picks and expiring contracts.
5. I am by no means trying to assert that CP3 is a lock or even likely and again only pointed out a difference and defense with regards to Melo.
6. Calm down.

Trill, you are not one of the blind fans I was referring to. There are many posters that don't like my message. I get the impression the only negative thing permitted on this site is about D'Antoni. There has been a hive mentality that has taken over this site.

To clarfiy a couple things:

We do not have any picks to trade until 2016.

All of our expiring contracts would need to be used to make CP3's salary match what we give them.

Our expiring contracts are of no value to New Orleans. They are however valuable to other teams/players, hence why I have suggested we forget CP3 and use them to build a solid team around Melo and Amare.

I don't believe I am faulting Melo unfairly. I believe you are giving him too much of a pass for what he did, which to me, seems obvious.
 
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Oldtimer

Rotation player
Cp3

I have little to say that LJ4ptPlay has not already said. He has his facts straight and is applying them rationally. Because of Amare's and Melo's salaries we are going to have increasingly serious cap problems. I believe that in the 2014/15 season their combined salaries will be just under $47M. CP3 is a luxury we will not be able to afford.

Unlike the Lakers who have LA and a real assset in Bynum, I do not see us as players for D. Howard or CP3. I also believe that the new CBA will certainly include real financial incentives for players like CP3 to stay with their original teams. Such a provision is in the interests of most of the franchises and hardly something the players' union would oppose.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. I think you misunderstand how cap space and being under the cap works.

When a team is under the cap, the only money they are allowed to spend on free agents is the dollar amount under the cap they are at. They cannot go over the cap to sign free agents.

Teams over the cap at the beginning of free agency are only allowed to sign free agents to the MLE. The MLE in the past has been around $5 mil - $6 mil per year.

So, if we want to sign CP3, our total team salary needs to be under the cap by the amount CP3 will sign for.

I hope this clarifies your questions.

Thank you for answering my questions. I feel a little less retarded now when it comes to the CBA. ;-)

I have little to say that LJ4ptPlay has not already said. He has his facts straight and is applying them rationally. Because of Amare's and Melo's salaries we are going to have increasingly serious cap problems. I believe that in the 2014/15 season their combined salaries will be just under $47M. CP3 is a luxury we will not be able to afford.

Unlike the Lakers who have LA and a real assset in Bynum, I do not see us as players for D. Howard or CP3. I also believe that the new CBA will certainly include real financial incentives for players like CP3 to stay with their original teams. Such a provision is in the interests of most of the franchises and hardly something the players' union would oppose.

You guys are killing me..

So, the best way to get him would be via sign and trade it seems.

Am I correct in saying this?

Aren't there already financial incentives for players to stay w their current teams? Seems to me that star caliber players are more concerned w being on a contending team than staying w a team that can pay for them to stay in a bad situation w re: to winning a chip.
 
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