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Thread: We're going to need Chris Paul if we want to get by Miami's big three.

  1. #16
    Veteran STAT1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    I agree with everything you said. But CP3 coming here has nothing to do with MDA being successful. We still need that coach. Unless MDA changes.
    I agree with you 100% I think this team needs a new coach regardless if we get CP3 or not. But since MDA is here I think it makes getting CP3 all that much more imperative. This system is not conducive to isolation style basketball, which is what the Knicks have been playing with Melo & STAT for the most part. This team needs a floor general that can push the tempo, play defense on the perimeter & most importantly, break down the defense off the dribble & pass to open teammates. I like Chauncey's leadership ability but he's no longer the shutdown defender he once was, & he's more suited to a halfcourt style of game, not really what MDA's system is about. Funny thing is for all the reasons I just outlined, it makes so much more sense to get a new head coach that will run the style of basketball that these players on this team are best suited for, but it doesn't look like MDA's going anywhere anytime soon to me.

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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    Yes very true, but neither of them are ball facilitators, they don't really create shots for others on their team. That's why I think CP3 is imperative, especially w/this head coach, who has never had any run of success without an MVP calibre PG with elite passing skills running his speedball style of game.

    i guess the real question is....... do we settle for an pass first mediocre scoring PG and d12......... or a defensive center with mediocre offense and cp3????....i think both would work... i dont want CP3 and a offensive center and i dont want d12 and a scoring pg.. that wont cut it..

    with the gun to my head i will take d12 for health reasons

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    Why do we want Dwight Howard. For defense and rebounding. I mean hey, I wont fight against it. However D12 here will neutralize STAT.

    The last 2 premier bigs to play together was David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Robinson sacraficed his game so much b/c he knew Duncan was special. Having 2 dominant big men wont work b/c its just to crowded near the hoop. I will not pay 100 mil to someone who will be limited because of a teammate. CP3 will make everyone look good. And we

    Wade and James still play like Max Contract guys because its theres room on the perimiter. When one goes to the whole the other gets out of the way.

    Here they will be frustrated with each other. It was already tough for Bosh. It will be worse here.

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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    Why do we want Dwight Howard. For defense and rebounding. I mean hey, I wont fight against it. However D12 here will neutralize STAT.

    The last 2 premier bigs to play together was David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Robinson sacraficed his game so much b/c he knew Duncan was special. Having 2 dominant big men wont work b/c its just to crowded near the hoop. I will not pay 100 mil to someone who will be limited because of a teammate. CP3 will make everyone look good. And we

    Wade and James still play like Max Contract guys because its theres room on the perimiter. When one goes to the whole the other gets out of the way.

    Here they will be frustrated with each other. It was already tough for Bosh. It will be worse here.
    it can work but stat would have play away from the basket more... its not like he rebounds anyway and he has a 12-15 footer....howard can play 10 ft away and post up because he has a big first step....


    its working with zach and gasol....bynum and gasol

    while cp3 would waork as well... im more concerned with protecting the paint.. even if it sacrafices offense....

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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    it can work but stat would have play away from the basket more... its not like he rebounds anyway and he has a 12-15 footer....howard can play 10 ft away and post up because he has a big first step....


    its working with zach and gasol....bynum and gasol

    while cp3 would waork as well... im more concerned with protecting the paint.. even if it sacrafices offense....
    Thats a great point. But those guys are alpha males. If D12 and CP3 both want NY then we cant go wrong either way.

  6. #21
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    No we don't need Chris Paul. Hasn't seeing D. Rose tought you anything?
    First of all D. Rose is not CP3. In Miami, Rose ran up against a better team and better players. Wade and Bron are both better than him. With CP3, we'd have a player, who like Wade is just a notch below Lebron who is the best player in the game currently. To me, CP3 is also just slightly better than Wade.

    Originally Posted by Red
    With Stat & Melo, what can CP3 do that Billups or Felton can't?
    Are you seriously asking this question??

    In CP3 we'd have a guy who could easily average 10-12 assists, 3-4 steals, shoot 48-50% from the field and 40% from three point range.. Neither Billups nor Felton or any other point guard in the league can do all of the things I just listed night in and night out, all while bringing rare leadership qualities that cannot be quantified, but have a real, profound effect on a game and the man's teammates.

    Amare and Melo would have it EASY. They'd have the great point guard of this generation to lead them, dish to them and take over games at will if need be..

    Originally Posted by Red
    This is a posters poor attempts to support D'Antoni by not exactly advocating for Steve Nash but rather a PG, because they feel that is what make D'Antoni sh*t work.
    No this my attempt to advocate for us getting the best PG since Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson.

    MDA's offense works well w a solid PG like Felton or Billups. The team numbers bare this out. But his offense flies off the damn charts and becomes a serious problem w someone like Paul or Nash at the PG position.

    Every coach needs certain ingredients Red. MDA is no different. To have MDA as coach and not want for him to have what would make us all the more unstoppable seems counter-intuitive, no?

    That said, I want the Knicks to acquire Paul whether MDA is the coach or not.

    HE WILL GIVE US THE NUCLEUS WE NEED TO TAKE MIAMI DOWN.

    Originally Posted by Red
    Again, hasn't league MVP D. Rose tought you anything?
    Yeah, it's taught me that having a deep, defensive oriented team, w one All-Star/ Superstar type player is not enough against Miami to get out of the Eastern Conference.


    Originally Posted by Red
    CP3 isn't the answer. In fact considering we have Stat & Melo already, signing another Max will be a 4-5year death sentence.

    CP3 @ 6' is nice. He is talented and can help almost any team. But he's not worth sacrificing size and depth. Part of that depth as far as the NYK's go is within the starting line-up.

    We can use wishful thinking with Fields if you want and feel can become that knock-down shooter we need next to CB, Melo, and Stat. But that leaves a Center. This center must have talent.

    Talented centers to anchor a defense an compliment two scorers and a facilitator that we have will be expensive and worth more than CP3- as again we need a facilitator.
    In looking at our team, I just feel that we need that extra touch of greatness for Amare and Melo to reach their full potential together. It may get better, but I don't think they mesh all that well out on the court together. CP3 would maximize their chemistry creating balance and uncontrollable unpredictability.

    But..

    Between the three of them I think we'd see a brand of prolificness that would shock the league for a period. All of my basketball instincts tell me that the three of them together would be something different, something special.

    Maybe it can't or won't happen for now obvious reasons (new CBA!!!), but I want this for my Knick team. I want us to be as great a team as we can be. Getting CP3 seems to me to be the way to get there.

    We have to see how the new CBA shakes out before any of us can say definitively what kind of cap problems getting him will create.

    I also believe we'll take a couple of bigs in this years draft to go along with what we have to hold down the middle. I'm not so much worried about who we have at center as how many guys we can throw out there that can rebound and block shots. All we need are rebounders and shot blockers who can finish the odd put back or easy lay-in off a dish/doubleteam to go along w Amare.


    Originally Posted by Red
    Chauncey will prove this we need CP3 wrong next year, Felton and Rose already have as one is the MVP (shut down) and the other excelled on a less than max contract.
    The point Red, is that we have Melo and Amare. Judging by what Miami was able to do against the team with the best record in the East this season, I just think we need to go for the jugular and get Paul here, if it's feasible/possible.

    Also, Chicago had really good front-line players. They were deep and skilled at the 4 &5. The had Boozer, Asik, Gibson, Noah and my boy Kurt Thomas.

    Chicago also lead the league in defense:

    Opp PTS/G: 91.3 (2nd of 30)

    Def Rtg/ efficiency: 100.3 (1st of 30)

    In looking at the above one can deduce that Chicago had one of the deepest, best frontlines in the NBA AND one of best defenses AND the league MVP.. and still lost against Miami.

    Hence the creation of this thread born from a deeper understanding of what it will take to get past the Heat.

    The Finals will produce more valuable lessons.

    Because of the above, I will continue to promulgate the notion that we need as many great players as it is possible to attain, CP3 in particular. And in the case of this team and this coach, a great, HOF PG would certainly not be a bad thing.

    Originally Posted by Red
    Again, all this thread is is a referendum and support of Mike D'Antoni. Its another way of saying the OP'er believes in him and Nash and he needs a PG for his system.

    Get us some depth and a center and CB, Stat & Melo will take care of the rest. Trust.

    And I didn't even mention replacing D'Antoni. See.
    No Red,

    This thread is me simply stating my belief that CP3 is the answer going forward if we want to contend in an East Conf that has a dominating team like the Heat.

    Also, I don't need to beat around the bush re: my support of MDA. Anybody who reads my posts can easily ascertain where I stand.

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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    i guess the real question is....... do we settle for an pass first mediocre scoring PG and d12......... or a defensive center with mediocre offense and cp3????....i think both would work... i dont want CP3 and a offensive center and i dont want d12 and a scoring pg.. that wont cut it..

    with the gun to my head i will take d12 for health reasons
    I don't factor D12 much into any future considerations for our franchise, I think CP3 is a much more realistic option. I see Dwight ending up staying in Orlando or going to LA to join Kobe. He's got that Hollywood personality in him.

    But if we had a choice between the 2 I would take D12, he fills our biggest need which is a defensive presence in the paint. But only if we brought in a different head coach who will play inside out style basketball, not this speedball system we're playing now of launching up 30 3-pointers every game from the perimeter.

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    Well the fact remains we're going to need a more talented and versatile roster. BUT, were going to also need a more versatile coach. A coach that can utilize a players strengths. Just brining in CP3 and a bunch of shooters isnt going to cut it. Just playing mismatches offensively because that's all you know isnt going to cut it. Benching bigs that can help your interior defense and rebounding because they cant shoot from 15ft isnt going to cut it. Running you offense strictly outside in (RARELY IN I might add) isnt going to cut it.

    We dont have time to experiment. We dont have time to see whether or not MOA has figured these things out. We dont have time to see if a defensive assistant and MOA can co exist.

    Once the season ends we need to start preparing like we're going after a CHAMPIONSHIP. NOT trying to figure things out on the fly.

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    Just stumbled upon this video, good times.


  10. #25
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    Well the fact remains we're going to need a more talented and versatile roster. BUT, were going to also need a more versatile coach. A coach that can utilize a players strengths. Just brining in CP3 and a bunch of shooters isnt going to cut it. Just playing mismatches offensively because that's all you know isnt going to cut it. Benching bigs that can help your interior defense and rebounding because they cant shoot from 15ft isnt going to cut it. Running you offense strictly outside in (RARELY IN I might add) isnt going to cut it.

    We dont have time to experiment. We dont have time to see whether or not MOA has figured these things out. We dont have time to see if a defensive assistant and MOA can co exist.

    Once the season ends we need to start preparing like we're going after a CHAMPIONSHIP. NOT trying to figure things out on the fly.
    You would have to admit though that the outside-in offense is working pretty good in Dallas at the moment, no?

    It can work consistently if you have a someone who can draw attention and REAL knockdown shooters, which we don't have or (I believe Rautins is a consistent knockdown shooter)utilize yet.

    The attention grabber (ie Dirk or someone of his ilk) needs to have the discipline to make the defense pay EVERYTIME they receive the double though. Not sure Melo and Amare are there yet..
    Last edited by ronoranina; May 28, 2011 at 11:39.

  11. #26
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    You would have to admit though that the outside-in offense is working pretty good in Dallas at the moment, no?

    It can work consistently if you have a someone who can draw attention and REAL knockdown shooters, which we don't have or (I believe Rautins is a consistent knockdown shooter)utilize yet.

    The attention grabber (ie Dirk or someone of his ilk) needs to have the discipline to make the to make the defense pay EVERYTIME though. Not sure Melo and Amare are there yet..
    The reason it works in Dallas is that Dirk is unguardable (wd?). You put a big man on him he takes him to the 3 pt line. You put a smaller player on him he takes him in the paint. That team also plays defense, something that's just wishful thinking for the Knicks with MDA...

  12. #27
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    The reason it works in Dallas is that Dirk is unguardable (wd?). You put a big man on him he takes him to the 3 pt line. You put a smaller player on him he takes him in the paint. That team also plays defense, something that's just wishful thinking for the Knicks with MDA...
    Melo can be that way from the perimeter too when he has it going.. But he does the same things you point out - shoot over the smaller guys and go around/by the bigger ones.

    I want to be careful and distinguish between Carmelo and Amare. I believe that if you put the knockdown shooters around Melo, he'll find the open man if doubled/receives help. I'm not as confident in Amare's ability to kick to the open guy when he is doubled or receives help. He has shown a propensity to force up shots or turn the ball over when doubled and tripled even.

    Getting CP3 would eliminate much of the need for Amare and Melo to facilitate.

    It would allow them to do what they do, but in easier fashion as they'd benefit from the attention CP3 garners.

    By having a guy like CP3 who can break down your defense at will, but also has the supreme vision and passing to find the open man easily, Amare's and Melo's games could flourish and flow in a more relaxed fashion.

    In other words, CP3 would make them better. That's a scary thought.

    Defensively I've been saying all along that our team would benefit from having a defensive assistant.

    Add CP3 along w better defensive scheme focus and that could result in significant improvement.
    Last edited by ronoranina; May 28, 2011 at 20:20.

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    Adding CP3 will not only boost our offense tremendously and make it one of the best, if not the best in the NBA, it will improve our defense. The guy gets what 2 or 3 steals a night? A player like Paul is exactly what we need. He will not only get the offense going, but he will get the defense going as well.

  14. #29
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo Incase y'all forgot...

    CP3 owning the Lakers pretty much by himself in Game 1 of these Playoffs!

    Just brilliant stuff here..

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    We need this guy.

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Defensively I've been saying all along that our team would benefit from having a defensive assistant.

    Add CP3 along w better defensive scheme focus and that could result in significant improvement.
    I'm with you all the way on CP3. No doubt we'd be better. But just adding a defensive assistant isnt going to work. He wont have final say. That means MDA picks who plays. Those that dont get used "REALLY" dont get used. Him having final say doesnt do the Knicks any good at all.

    This is what we need in a coach:

    Top 8 quotes about Jimmer Fredette from the NBA All-Star Weekend
    Compiled by Joseph D’Hippolito

    Associated Press
    # 2 - Doc Rivers, Boston Celtics coach on Jimmer
    I love him. He's terrific. I've seen the ESPN clips and going by the clips, he's a superstar. The kid's going to be a good NBA player. We get lost in what kids can't do and we should focus more on the things they can do and try to accent that. He can get his own shot.

    I want to repeat what every great coach thinks about players, unlike MDA.

    We get lost in what kids can't do and we should focus more on the things they can do and try to accent that.


    You think MDA can adhere to a philosphy like this? He hasnt yet and I dont think he can...

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